Can We Interchange The Word "God" With the Word Spirit?

[~candice~]

I would like to know with after showing all these scriptures why I'm in error saying things like:

Jesus is the Father and the Father is Jesus and the Holy Spirit is Jesus and Jesus is the Holy Spirit and the Father is the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit is The Father.

Where am in in error by believing that?

The Father does not have a body, He is Spirit. Jesus does have a body. Jesus and God the Father are DIFFERENT persons within the trinity. Jesus is not the Father, otherwise Jesus would have been praying to Himself in the Garden of Gesthemane.

Also, have a look at the baptism of Jesus.

We have Jesus the physical man on earth, the Holy Spirit descending like a dove, and God the Father (a Spirit) talking from heaven. It is obvious here that these persons are distinct and different, and substituting as you have suggested introduces error, and is infact not a correct understanding of the scripture.

[HAZARD]

Haz,

Thanks for that long reply,

I was going to give you the answer but Jedi4Yahweh answered it for me. I agree with Jedi, Jesus is the Father. and the Father is Jesus, Jesus is the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit is Jesus. The Father is the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit is the Father. Let me show you from the Bible to prove it.

Let's start off to show that Jesus is the Father:

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Some may argue that ther are 2 Fathers the everlasting Father known as Jesus and the Father of Jesus is the 2nd Father. but then you have to answer this verse.

Matt 23:9

And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

If you believe this verse then, there can be only (one) Father. So if you truly believe the Bible and Trinity then the only conclusion is that Jesus is the Father and the Father is Jesus.

Now to move on to the next issue:

Jedi already showed us that Jesus raised himself from the dead and the Father raised himself from the Dead and the Holy Spirit Raised Jesus from the dead but I'll show you again anyway.

The Father clearly Raised Jesus from the Dead

Rom 6:4

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father,....

The Spirit Clearly Raised Jesus from the Dead:[/b]

Rom 8:11

But if the "Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Jesus Clearly Raised Himself from the Dead:[/b]

John 2:19-21

Jesus answered and said unto them, Distroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up......21) But he spake of the temple of his body.

This Verse shows us that the Father is the Spirit:

John 4:24

God is a Spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

This Verse shows us that Jesus is the Spirit:

Matt: 18:20

For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Comment on this: The verse Matt: 18:20 is very important and a lot of Christians miss it:

It clearly shows us that Jesus says (there am I in the midst of them) We clearly know he's talking about himself as the Holy Spirit in this verse. Otherwise we have 2 Spirits of God and I hope we agree that we have but only (One God) and think about it How could Jesus, even in his Incoruptible Body be everywhere on the planet all at the sametime if you wasn't the Holy Spirit which this verse implies

And we know that The Holy Spirit is a Spirit:

So Haz,

Maybe, I'm missing something in your reply, but I think your trying to seperate God into more then what he is. I don't know. But if you believe that the Father and Jesus are not all the same (One) God then I'm going to need a little deeper understanding on what you do believe and why you believe it, and on answering these scriptures for me and Jedi4Yahwey have pointed out to you.

Why is it so hard to accept the fact that Jesus was all man and all God all at the sametime?

Made up of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Look: we accept that when we read the Bible it shows us in many places that our spirit leave our body and is present with the Lord Heb. 9:27

So right there you have a contradiction because that would make us 2 different things. But we understand that we are not 2 things but one thing made up in our total being as a soul, spirit and a body.

So why is it so hard to except God as Jesus?

If you are saying it's impossible because the Father was in Heaven and the Son was on earth. Then you'll need to look at Ecc. 3:15 to find out how that's possible:

Ecc. 3:15

The Father is speaking here:

That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.

Don't you see: The Father was and is and will be outside of time. There is no time with the Father. So if the Father is outside of time and Jesus was locked in time all at the same time. Then there would be not contradiction for Jesus praying to the Father all at the same time. And yet still be all the same (One) God

The second question people ask and that is why would the Father even want to come down to earth as the Son. Why didn't the Father just come down and say: Here I am, I'm the Father. and never be called the Son at all:

The answer is clearly in Mal 1:6

Mal 1:6

A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the Lord of hosts unto you,.......

Now you might say that this verse doesn't apply and I would debate you on that for several reasons.

First off. We know Jesus came down here to be a servant: he clearly proved that by his very words in

John 13:13-16

Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am. If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet. For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him,

So, it doesn't mean that because Jesus was a servant that he wasn't God, In fact it proves that Jesus is God even more. because he came as a servant to earth so his honour and glory would (If it were possible) even be more magnified. (and the only way to understand that is in Mal 1:6)

Now when you read Mal 1:6 it makes more since that when the father says: if then I be a father, where is mine Honour.

He gets more Honor by coming down as the Son glorifying the Father (Spirit of God) then by coming down as representing himself as the Father.

The second reason that I believe that Mal 1:6 represents The Father and Jesus by just the fact that it's right in the last book of the old Testiment. and Malachi was the last Prophet to tell us what the Father was planing to do. Read all of Malachi and you'll see the context of the whole book.

Now to make another point I just thought of,

Jesus does show us in the Scriptures that he clearly does say he is the Father as well. but mostly he represents himself as the Son or Son of God.

Take a look at this verse and tell me what you think?

John 14:8-9

Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

The key to understanding this verse is:

(Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me)

Jesus is directly refering himself as the Father by saying the word (I)

This shows me clearly that The Father is Jesus and that Jesus is the Father.

I could go on and on but I'll save some more for the next tread.

Let me know what you think about these verses and if you can counter these verses with a different view.

Thanks again as always for your thoughts,

Zotah

Hi 'Zota.'

You are not going to like me because i am constantly disagreeing with you. The Scriptures are very plain, simple to understand and clear on the doctrin of who God is, who Jesus is, and who the Holy Spirit is. In the Name of 1. The Father, 2. In the Name of the Son, and 3. In the Name of the Holy Spirit. There are three in Heaven, "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." (1 John 5:7). They are "one" in unity, not omnibody.

God has a spirit body with bodily parts like a man. This is proved by hundreds of Scriptures that do not need interpretation. God is a Spirit being, infinate, eternal, immutable, self-existent, omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent, invisible, impartial, imortal, absolutly holy, full of wisdom, full of knowledge, and just in all things. God is known in Scripture by over two hundred names. He is describes as being like any other person as to having a body, soul, and spirit (Job 13:8; Heb. 1:3; Dan. 7:9-14; 10:5-7). He is a spirit being with a body (Dan. 7:9-14; 10:5-6, 9-19, Exodus 24:11; Gen. 18' 32:24-32; Ezek. 1:26-28; Acts 7:54-59; Rev. 4:2-4; 5:1, 5-7; 22:4-5); shape (John 5:37); form (Phil. 2:5-7, same Greek word as in Mark 16:12, which refers to bodily form); and an image and likeness of a man (Gen. 1:26; 9:6; Ezek. 1:26-28; 1 Cor. 11:7; jas. 3:9; Dan. 7:9-14; 10:5-6).

Note, the difference between a spirit body and a flesh and blood body is substance. Spirit is an eternal substance, flesh and blood is temporal. We are to become glorified flesh and blood as now Jesus is.

God has a heart (Gen. 6:6; 8:21); he has hands and fingers (Exod. 31:18; Psalms 8:3-6; Rev. 5:1, 6-7); Nostrils (Ps. 18:8); mouth (Num. 12:8); lips and a toung (Isa. 30:27; feet (Ezek. 1:27; Exodus 24:10); eyes, eyelids, sight (Ps. 11:4; 18:24; 33:18); voice (Ps. 29; Rev. 10:3-4; Gen. 1); breath (Gen. 2:70; ears (Ps. 18:6); head, hair, face, arms (Dan. 7:9-14; 10:5-19; Rev. 5:1; loins (Ezek. 1:26:28; 8:1-4); bodily presence (Gen. 3:8; 18:1-22; Job 1:6-12; 2:1-7; Exodus 24:10-11); and many other bodily parts as required by Him to be a person with a body.

Jacob saw God FACE TO FACE and lived! "And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved" (Gen. 32:30). Abraham made a dinner for God and two angels and they ate food (Gen. 18). Moses talked with God face to face (Exodus 33:11-23). Seventy four elders had a banquet with God in Sinai (Exodus 24:9-11). Joshua and all Israel saw God with a sword in His hand (Josh. 5:13-15).

Gidion (Judg. 6:11-23), Manoah and wife (Judg. 13:3-23), David (1 Chron. 21:16-17), Job (42:5), Isaiah (6:1-13), Amos (9:1), and others saw God standing on the ground, sitting on thrones, and having a body with bodily parts like a man. Ezekiel saw God on a chariot and described Him as having an "appearance of a man" with loins and the upper and lower parts of a body like a man (Ezek 1:26-28; 10:1, 20; 40:3). Daniel saw both God the Father and the Son of man as two separate beings at the same time and at the same place. God was on a throne, and had on white clothing, His hair was white. The Son of man also had a body, had cloths on, and has hair on His head (Dan. 7:9-14; 10:5-6). Stephen saw both God the Father and Christ at the same time and place with the same eyes (Acts 7:56-59).

God goes from place to place just like any one else (Gen. 3:8; 11:5; 18:1-22, 33; 19:24; 32:24-32; 35:13; Zech. 14:5; Titus 2:13).

God is omnipresent but not omnibody, that is His presence can be felt everywhere but His body is not everywhere.

God wears cloths (Dan. 7:9-14; 10:5-19; This alone limits Him to a place at a time.

God eats food (Gen. 18:1-22; Exodus 24:11).

There is not one Scripture in the Bible which states that God is intangible, immaterial, and without a body, or bodily parts, and passions and emotions except John 4:24, "God is a spirit," and this certainly does not teach that He is without a body. A spirit being has an eternal body, a non glorified flesh and bone being has a temporal body.

As these Scriptures prove, God goes from place to place like everyone else, God goes from place to place just like any one else (Gen. 3:8; 11:5; 18:1-22, 33; 19:24; 32:24-32; 35:13; Zech. 14:5; Titus 2:13).

I can and will give much more proof that they are three separate beings, members of the "GODHEAD" which is mentioned repeatedly in Scripture, three times.

"Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device." (Acts 17:29).

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:" (Romans 1:20).

"For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." (Colossians 2:9).

The word Trinity is not mentioned one time in Scripture, not that is not able to be used by those who want to use it?

Regards,

Haz.

[Jedi4Yahweh]

Note, the difference between a spirit body and a flesh and blood body is substance. Spirit is an eternal substance, flesh and blood is temporal. We are to become glorified flesh and blood as now Jesus is.

Yes, God does not have a body made of Flesh and Blood, but God does have a body that can be touched felt as we see saw after his resurrection to his disciples. This is the new glorified body. The bible says when we are resurrected we will be like him each with a new glorified body uncorrupted. We will not be a spirit with out a body. We will have the type of body that God has. God is not this mysterious floating spirit with out a body. God made us in his image. God looks like man. God has a Spirit, Soul and Body.

Isa 42:1 Behold My Servant; I will uphold Him; My Elect in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit on Him; He shall bring forth justice to the nations.

I can and will give much more proof that they are three separate beings, members of the "GODHEAD" which is mentioned repeatedly in Scripture, three times.

"Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device." (Acts 17:29).

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:" (Romans 1:20).

"For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily." (Colossians 2:9).

Godhead simply means divinity; it does not mean there are three separate gods. Col 2:9 which you quoted proves the point that Jesus was the fullness of God. He was not just part of God but fully God. He in him dwells the Word, Father, and Spirit. Jesus is fully and completely God as Col 2:9 states.

Also, in Rom 1:20 that you quoted proves that point that we can understand the Godhead by the things he made. Since God made us after his image and likeness then we should be able be able to understand what God is like. Dont make a mystery out of it.

[Guest yod]

I don't have any problem interchanging the word "God" with Holy Spirit whatsoever....or Yeshua...or "The Father" or "the Son".

They are One with different manifestation...but they are One.

[zotah]

Haz,

I'm having a hard time understanding what we are debating.

Bottom line is:

Do you even believe in the Trinity?

Do you even believe that Jesus is God?

If you do believe in the Trinity I need more explaination of exactly where we differ in belief. My whole concept of this subject is the differences of trinity beliefs. Not weather Jesus is God in Trinity.

Please clarify for me that You even believe in Trinity at all.

Thanks,

Zotah

[HAZARD]

Haz,

I'm having a hard time understanding what we are debating.

Bottom line is:

Do you even believe in the Trinity?

Do you even believe that Jesus is God?

If you do believe in the Trinity I need more explaination of exactly where we differ in belief. My whole concept of this subject is the differences of trinity beliefs. Not weather Jesus is God in Trinity.

Please clarify for me that You even believe in Trinity at all.

Thanks,

Zotah

Hi Zotah.

In answer to your question, Yes, I do believe that Jesus is God. How you can think I dont is beyond me?

Hundreds of Scriptures prove that Jesus is a seperate and distinct person of the Godhead as clearly and plainly taught by these many Scriptures. There should be no confusion or misunderstanding who Jesus is, who the Father is, and who the Holy Spirit is.

Scriptures give a full account of who Jesus Christ is from the "Beginning."

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth (John 1:14).

Jesus Christ existed in His Spirit body throughout all eternity past, untill He divested Himself of His Spirit body and became a man. As God He has always existed. But, as a man, in taking human form, flesh and blood, He had a beginning.

Scripture, show that Jesus Christ was one of the three divine persons of the Deity and that as God he had no beginning.

Mic. 5:2 states He existed from all eternity.

John states of Him as existing in the very beginning with the Father (John 1;1-5).

Jesus Himself said He was before Abraham, and before the World was created (John 8:58; 17:5, 24).

Paul states Christ as existing before all things and as the creator and upholder of all things (Col. 1:15-18; Heb. 1:1-3, 8; 2:10). God the Father created all things by Jesus (Eph. 3:9).

Divine names are ascribed to Him.

These divine names and titles proves that He is by nature divine and a member of the Godhead.

He is called God and Immanuel in (Matt. 1:23; John 1:1; 20:28 and Acts 20:28).

Christ the Lord (Luke 2:26); The Son of God (Matt. 4:3; 14:33; Luke 22:70; John 1:34; Rom. 1:4). He is called "MY SON" by the Father in (Matt. 3:17); The only begotten Son (John 1:18; 3:16-18; 1 John 4:9).

He is called the First and the Last. Alpha and Omega, The beginning and Ending (Rev. 22:12, 13, 16). The Lord (Acts9:17); The Son of the Highest (Luke 1:32; Mark 14:61).

The Holy Child Jesus (Acts 4:30); King of Kings and Lord of Lords (Rev. 19:16); Lord and Savious (2 Peter 3:2); and The Word Of God (Rev. 19:13), and many more such titles show He is a member of the Divine Godhead.

In Phil. 2:5-11 Paul speaks of Christ being in God's form and that He laid aside this form and limited His attributes and powers as God to become a man. These powers were given back to Him when He was exalted to the highest place with God, (Coll. 3:1; Mark 16:19), after His lowest humiliation and limitation before God-even to do nothing, say nothing, be nothing and depend entirely upon God the Father for needed grace for body, soul, and spirit, and make a sucess of the work the Father sent Him into the world to do (Phil 2:9-11; Eph. 1:21-23; Col. 1:15-24; 1 Pet. 3:22). We know He did not keep His powers and position whilst a man, else He could not have been exalted back to it.

If He had not laid aside all His Glory and power He could not have had it restored to Him as stated in John 17:5. If He had retained all His riches while on Earth He could not have become poor for our sakes as taught in 2 Cor. 8:9. If He had kept His divine form He could not have taken on human form as taught by Phil. 2:5-11.

His incarnation proves He was limited as a man and grew to manhood as we all do, and He developed normally as any other human child. All the traditional theories of Him making toy birds and animals of mud and breathing life into them so they became real creatures and ran and flew away, and the many other miraculous powers He allegedly had from birth are mere theories and traditions made up by suspicious pagans to make Him equal with their pagan gods. He was a normal man as we are, and He did no miraculous works untill He was anointed fully by the Holy Spirit (Matt. 3:16-17; John 2:11).

After Jesus was annointed by the Holy Spirit to the full, He then posessed all the gifts and Graces of the Holy Spirit to the full, and He demonstrated what being like God among men really is like and He encouraged one and all who aspire to this exalted position, of sons of God with Power (John 3:34; Acts 10:38).

He laid aside His natural and divine attributes, and their use, and became a perfect example of yieldedness to God and His Spirit to overcome the world, the flesh, and the devil (Heb. 10:5-9; Acts 10:38).

Regarding His Humanity. Human names were ascribed to Him. Rabboni (John 20:16), Jesus (Matt. 1:21), Son of Abraham and David (Matt. 1:1), Seed and Offspring of David(Rom. 1:3; Rev. 5:5; 22:16). The second man and the Last Adam (1 Cor. 15:45-47). The King of the Jews (Matt. 2:2).

He was called a "BABE," a "CHILD," and a "MAN" (Luke 2:16; Isa. 9:6; Acts 17:31; 1 Tim. 2L4-5; Rom. 5:12-21; John 8:40; Acts 2:22; 1 Cor. 15:21, 45-47).

It was prophecied that He would be born of a human mother (Gen. 3:15; Isa. 7:14; 9:6-7; 11:1; 53:1-12; Ps. 22).

And He had flesh and blood like all other men (John 1:14; Heb. 2:14-15; 1 John 4:1-6; Luke 24:39; John 19:34).

Jesus Christ, in His glorified flesh and bone body, now sits beside the Father in Heaven (Luke 24:39; John 20:27; Mark 16:19; Luke 22:69), for the Father, who is and did remain a Spirit being, is Spirit and has a Spirit body, and must be worshiped in Spirit and truth (John 4:24). Now, because Jesus retained His Glorified flesh and bone body, and literally sits beside God the Father, on a throne, in Heaven, the two must be "one" in unity, not omnibody, as many teach.

Like I said earlier, the word Trinity is not once time mentioned in the Scriptures but the word "Gopdhead" is. It is mentioned in these three places;

Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. Acts 17:29.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Romans 1:20, and;

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Colossians 2:9.

To my surprise the word Godhead is also mentioned in Websters 20Th Century Unabridged Dictionary;

Godhead (-head), n. 1. divinity; godship. 2. [G-] God.

In my opinion God inspired the writers of the Bible to write it in such a way that it be easily understood by ordinary people as long as they can read. God did not want to confuse anyone about who He is and what He has planned for man, without so called Bible experts needing to explain things for them. Here is the proof of what I am saying;

At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Matthew 11:25, and;

In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight. Luke 10:21.

God would not write a book by which men will be judged and write it in such a way that men cannot understand it.

The term Godhead simply means that which is divine. It is used of Jesus in Colossians 2:9, as having all the qualities of divinity in His manifestation of God to men. It is also used of all three persons in the deity in Romans 1:20.

The word Godhead means the union of three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in one (unified) Godhead or divinity, so that all three persons are one in unity and eternal substance, but three separate and distinct persons as to individuality, 1 John 5:7-8 ; Daniel 7:9-14 ; Matthew 3:16-17 ;Matthew 28:19 ; and Acts 7:55.

Now the Hebrew word for "one" in such Scriptures as "one Lord" (Deut. 6:4-6) and "one God" in (Mal. 2:10) is ACHAD, to unify, collect, be united in one, one in number. It is used as one in unity many times: "they shall be one flesh" (Gen. 2:24); "the people are one" (Gen. 11:6). etc. The unity of God; Deuteronomy 6:4; "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord."

These words were always used at the begining of the Jewish services of both morning and evening (verse 4 and 5), and may be termed the short creed of the Jews. In them we find not only the declaration of the unity of God as contrasted with polythesim, the doctrin of the Trinity, and the true nature of Spiritual worship, but also the fact that Jehovah is the absolute and only uncaused God. Literally, JEHOVAH our ELOHIM is a unified Jehovah. Deut. 6:1-8 was one of four passages which Jews used in phylacteries, and which they regarded as one of the most pregnant with truth and instruction. The other passages were 11:18-21; Ex. 13:2-10, 11-16.

The unity of oneness of Jehovah and God-Jehovah our Elohim is a united Jehovah.

Regarding the trinity of God. There is more than one Jehovah and more than one God as individuals, but they are one Jehovah and one God in unity, thus expressing the truth of three separate and distinct persons, beings, or individuals in the Divine Trinity (PLEASE READ 1 John 5:7). The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one in this way, not one in individuality. The words Jehovah and God have a singular and plural meaning, like our word SHEEP. Since there are three persons or beings, then the only way they can be one is in the sense of unity, as prayed for in John 17:21-23.

Jesus said; "Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, AND of the Son, AND of the Holy Ghost" (Matt28:19). Notice the three and's?

In Phil. 2:5-11 Paul speaks of Christ being in God's form and that He laid aside this form and limited His attributes and powers as God to become a man. These powers were given back to Him when He was exalted to the highest place with God, (Coll. 3:1; Mark 16:19), after His lowest humiliation and limitation before God-even to do nothing, say nothing, be nothing and depend entirely upon God the Father for needed grace for body, soul, and spirit, and make a sucess of the work the Father sent Him into the world to do (Phil 2:9-11; Eph. 1:21-23; Col. 1:15-24; 1 Pet. 3:22). We know He did not keep His powers and position whilst a man, else He could not have been exalted back to it.

If He had not laid aside all His Glory and power He could not have had it restored to Him as stated in John 17:5. If He had retained all His riches while on Earth He could not have become poor for our sakes as taught in 2 Cor. 8:9. If He had kept His divine form He could not have taken on human form as taught by Phil. 2:5-11.

His incarnation proves He was limited as a man and grew to manhood as we all do, and He developed normally as any other human child. All the traditional theories of Him making toy birds and animals of mud and breathing life into them so they became real creatures and ran and flew away, and the many other miraculous powers He allegedly had from birth are mere theories and traditions made up by suspicious pagans to make Him equal with their pagan gods. He was a normal man as we are, and He did no miraculous works untill He was anointed fully by the Holy Spirit (Matt. 3:16-17; John 2:11).

After Jesus was annointed by the Holy Spirit to the full, He then posessed all the gifts and Graces of the Holy Spirit to the full, and He demonstrated what being like God among men really is like and He encouraged one and all who aspire to this exalted position, of sons of God with Power (John 3:34; Acts 10:38).

He laid aside His natural and divine attributes, and their use, and became a perfect example of yieldedness to God and His Spirit to overcome the world, the flesh, and the devil (Heb. 10:5-9; Acts 10:38).

In John 14:16-17, 26 ; 15:26 ; 16:7-15, the Holy Spirit is spoken of as "Another" cComforter (helper), who could not be sent until Christ had gone back to Heaven and was glorified John 7:37-39 ; Acts 2:33-36, but would be sent as a separate person from the Father and Son. The Greek allos, like the English another, means another of the same kind, but different from, not the same one, distinct from another, and one more, as proved every place where such word is used Matt. 2:12 ; 8:9 ; 13:24, 31, 33 ; 21:33 ; 26:7. Ohterwise the passages would not make sense.

Common sense alone demands us to understand that when the word "another" is used it means two or more. It is used of the Father as being "another" from the Son, John 5:32. If the Spirit is "another" from the Son who promised Him, and "another" from the Father who sent Him; and if the Father was "another" from the Son, there must be three distinct persons in the Godhead and all three can be and are called "God." All three persons are distinguished from each other by the word "another" in John 5:3 ; 14:16.

A clear distinction is made between "the name of the Father" and "of the Son" and "of the Holy Spirit Matthew 28:19. All three have separate and personal names by which they are known, as is clear from this passage and many others.

A clear distinction is made between the Son who prays, and the Father to whom He prays and "another Comforter" for whom He prays, who was given in answer to prayer, and who came from the Father and the Son as our "Helper" John 14:16. A clear distinction is made between Jesus who went away as one distinct person, Acts 1:11, and the Holy Ghost who came to take His place as "another" distinct person, John 14:16-17, 26 ; 15:26 ; 16:7-15.

A clear distinction is made between the Son who is exalted at the right hand of the Father, and the Father who is on the left hand of the Son, and the Holy Ghost who is sent from the Father and the Son to take the place of Jesus among men, Acts 2:33-26 ; 7:56-59 ; John 14:16-17, 26 ; 15:26 ; 16:7-15 ; Romans 8:34 ; Ephesians 1:20 ; Colossians 3:1 ; Hebrews 1:3 ; 8:1 ; 12:2.

A clear distinction is made between the Son who was already given, Luke 1:35 ; John 3:16, and the Holy Ghost who was not yet given before Jesus was glorified, John 7:37-39 ; Acts 2:33-36 ; 5:31.

A clear distinction is made between the Holy Ghost that came upon Mary and the child that was born of Mary by the Holy Ghost, Matthew 1:18-25 ; Luke 1:32-35.

A clear distinction is made between the Son who can be blasphemed with forgiveness possible and the Holy Ghost who cannot b blasphemed with forgiveness, Matthew 12:31-32 ; Mark 3:29-30 ; Luke 12:10. If the Son and the Holy Ghost were not two distinct persons they could not be blasphemed with different results. A third person, the Father, must have understood in such forgiveness for itis the Father that forgives men as the head of the Godhead, 1 Corinthians 11:3 ; Matthew 6:9-15 ; 18:35 ; Ephesians 4:23.

A clear distinction is made between Jesus who was bodily in Mary's womb and the Holy Ghost who was not bodily in Mary's womb, and who filled other, Luke 1:15, 39-41, 67-79.

A clear distinction is made between Jesus oputside of the womb of Mary and the Holy Ghost who filled and baptized Mary 33 years later at Pentecost, Acts 1:14 ; 2:1-4. The same distinction is made in the case of disciples at Pentecost: The Holy Ghost came and filled and battized them while the Son was at that time "exalted at the right hand of the Father in Heaven, Acts 2:1-4, 33-36. The same distinction is clear in the caseof Steven, Acts 7:56-59 ; Paul, Acts 9:17; and others who were filled and baptized in the Holy Ghost at the time Jesus was in Heaven at the right hand of God, Romans 8:34 ; Ephesians 1:20 ; Hebrews 1:3.

A clear distinction is made between Jesus whom the Samaritans had recieved and the Holy Ghost whom they had not yet recieved, Acts 8:5-25.

A clear distinction is made between Jesus who was once powerless to do miracles and the Holy Ghost who annointed Him at thirty years of age to do miricles, John 2:11 ; Acts 10:38 ; Isaiha 11:1-2 ; 42:1-5 ; 61: 1-2 ; Luke 4:18-21 ; Matthew 3:16-17.

A clear distinction is also made between the Son who was "anointed," and the Father who sent the Spirit to anoint Him, and the Holy Ghost Himself who did the anointing, Matthew 3:16-17 ; Acts 10:38; Isaiah 11:1-2 ; 42:1-5 ; 61:1-2 ; Luke 4:18-21.

The Holy Ghost is distinguished from Christ by the fact that Jesus said, "He shall not SPEAK OF HIMSELF," but "He shall glorify ME" John 16"13-15.

The Godhead consists of three separate and distinct persons This fact is stated in the Scriptures:

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the FATHER, THE WORD, AND THE HOLY GHOST: and THESE THREE ARE ONE." 1 John 5:7. And there are THREE that bare witness in the Earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood; and these THREE agree in "one" If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son., 1 John 5:7-8.

What was Jesus asking the Father when He prayed these prayers?

"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are." John 17:11.

"That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me." John 17:21-23.

Common sense tells us that Jesus was not asking the Father to make all of His disciples, His followers "one" as in omnibody, as most fundamental Christians believe and teach He and the Father to be? He was asking the Father to keep us all "one" in unity as he and the Father, and the Holy Spirit are in unity.

Haz.

[Guest]

.... I'm having a hard time understanding what we are debating ....

A

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:

So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Isaiah 55:8-11

Little

Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

John 5:39

Word Play

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

2 Timothy 3:16-17

Is A Whole Lot Unwise

Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Luke 21:33

>>>>>()<<<<<

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Your Brother Joe

I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

Psalms 138:2

[zotah]

Haz,

_______________________________________________________________________________

Haz You wrote:

There is more than one Jehovah and more than one God as individuals, but they are one Jehovah and one God in unity, thus expressing the truth of three separate and distinct persons, beings, or individuals in the Divine Trinity.

_______________________________________________________________________________

What you wrote Here does not show me that you believe in the traditional belief of Trinity at all.

You're clearly believing (I Quote: There is more than one Jehovah and more than one God as individuals,) Close Quote

You're also saying (I Quote: (But they are one Jehovah and one God in unity)

God in Unity is not "One God at all"

Do you understand the difference between "One God" meaning simply One God not 2 not 3 but only One verses the difference of "One God in Unity"

One God in Unity can mean anything. It can mean several God's get together and all agree with one another.

Your way off base in the true belief of Trinity.

I may be a little different in how I clarify Trinity but I would never say One God in unity.

The very word Unity is one of the favorite words the Jehovah Witnesses like to use to prove that Jesus is not God.

I don't know where you stand on Trinity but this is surely not at all the true belief of Trinity. Simple that Jesus is God and God is Jesus.

We are made in the Image of God and therefore we are trinity made.

I appreciate your opening up your belief to me. But I totally disagree with your belief.

I hope you reread my tread on Oneness above. and comment on why my verses don't make sinse to you. But if you really study over every verse and reason on them I think you'll come to a different conclusion then what you've been saying.

Zotah

[Jedi4Yahweh]

Haz,

You wearing me out with these ten page postings, you gotta shorten it down for me to a least one page.

You seem to be bouncing all around and I am not sure what you saying. I will have to agree with Zotah, you seem to be suggesting that there are 3 gods unified into one God sort of like a company. " God Inc. "

The bible says that the Godhead can be understood by the things he made (Rom 1:20). Since we are made in the very image and likeness of God, is to too hard to understand that God is much like how he made us. God is not a 3 person union but 1 person that has a Spirit, Soul, and Body. Spirit = Holy Spirit, Soul = Father, and Body his Son. It would be easy to say that they are 3 different people but if you truly understand the scriptures you will see that they are but one person. just as my Spirit, Soul and Body make up one me. Jesus spent his whole ministry revealing this to his disciples but they never fully grasped who he was until after his resurrection. Understanding who Jesus is and was one of the mysteries that the Gospel revealed that leads to salvation.

One of the Scriptures you brought up about baptizing them in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. You will notice in that scripture is does not say names plural but name singular. "Baptise in the name..." Those three have one name and its the name above all names by which there is no other.

Col 2:9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;

Col 2:9 proves that Jesus was not a member of God but completely and fully God.

You keep mentioning that some how the Godhead means Trinity or Three in one, but it does not, it simply means divine. The Trinity concept is a teaching of men; which in my biblical opinion is false. It teaches God is three persons in unison or three Gods in one, but they prefer not to use the word God because they know that would contradict scripture. I can see where they get the idea but if they only knew the scriptures they would see that God is not three persons but one person.

Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.

Isa 44:8 ....Is there a God besides me? verily there is no God; I know not any.

[zotah]

Jedi,

Your funny and your right!. I love your example of "God Inc, Incorpoerated"

Right on the point, Well said,

Zotah