Which version of Judgement do you accept?

[The Quiet One]

FresnoJoe,

With respect, I apologize, I did not word my post well. I am not attempting to twist scripture in any way. Forgive me.

Now, however, let us look at Daniel 12:2.

Daniel 12:2 (King James Version)

2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

And let us look at 1 Corinthians 15.....

50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot possess the kingdom of God: neither shall corruption possess incorruption.

51Behold, I tell you a mystery. We shall all indeed rise again: but we shall not all be changed.

52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall rise again incorruptible: and we shall be changed.

53For this corruptible must put on incorruption; and this mortal must put on immortality.

51...............but we shall not all be changed. Now, he is speaking to the 'brethren'.......'brethren' are believers...... So, we see that Daniel says that MANY, NOT ALL, shall rise. Some to everlasting life, and SOME TO SHAME AND EVERLASTING CONTEMPT.

So, who is it that make up the 'many' that 'shall awake'? And who are those that 'shall not all be changed'?

Consider this, and study for yourself, don't listen to me. But consider, only those that are 'responsible', i.e. those that have heard the TRUTH, the Gospel, are to awake, and they will be judged according to their works................some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Just consider these things.

Edited September 15, 2009 by The Quiet One

[Guest]

.... Just consider these things ....

The Word Is Clear

Believers Will Be Covered By The Blood Of The Lamb And Will NOT Be Condemned But Will Spend Eternity With God

And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

Revelation 22:3-4

Unbelievers Are Already Under The Wrath Of God And Unless They Turn To Jesus They Will Be Resurrected To Eternal Damnation

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:13-15

Be Blessed

[The Quiet One]

FresnoJoe,

Please consider the following.......

Hebrews 10:26-27 (New Living Translation)

26 Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins. 27 There is only the terrible expectation of God

Edited September 15, 2009 by The Quiet One

[Rick-Parker]

FresnoJoe,

Please consider the following.......

Hebrews 10:26-27 (New Living Translation)

26 Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins. 27 There is only the terrible expectation of God's judgment and the raging fire that will consume his enemies.

If a person is saved, and continue to sin, then what are we to say of this scripture? This indicates that the sacrifice is no longer in effect.

Then their salvation in the beginning is suspect. Just because you know the truth doesn't mean it is applied in one's life; thus no salvation in the first place.

[Guest]

FresnoJoe, Please consider the following.......

Hebrews 10:26-27 (New Living Translation)

26 Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins. 27 There is only the terrible expectation of God

[The Quiet One]

Thank you Joe and Parker,

Our discussion is leading to another question along the same line of thought....

"Then their salvation in the beginning is suspect. Just because you know the truth doesn't mean it is applied in one's life; thus no salvation in the first place.

The question regards the popular doctrines of 'Once Saved Always Saved', and 'Saved by Faith Through Grace, Not Works, So that No Man can boast'.

I'm not sure that either are correct doctrine. Parker's answer seems right.

I think if you get saved, but don't apply the doctrine in your life, you're in trouble. And the Bible says that each man 'shall receive his works'(paraphrase), so that indicates to me that your Works do matter.

Thoughts?

TO THE KING!!!!!!!!!

[Rick-Parker]

Thank you Joe and Parker,

Our discussion is leading to another question along the same line of thought....

"Then their salvation in the beginning is suspect. Just because you know the truth doesn't mean it is applied in one's life; thus no salvation in the first place.

The question regards the popular doctrines of 'Once Saved Always Saved', and 'Saved by Faith Through Grace, Not Works, So that No Man can boast'.

I'm not sure that either are correct doctrine. Parker's answer seems right.

I think if you get saved, but don't apply the doctrine in your life, you're in trouble. And the Bible says that each man 'shall receive his works'(paraphrase), so that indicates to me that your Works do matter.

Thoughts?

TO THE KING!!!!!!!!!

While OSAS is not used in the Bible, it is supported by many verses (which has been discussed many pages elsewhere). Your second quote is actually stated in Scripture.

"For by GRACE you have been saved through FAITH; and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God; not as result of WORKS, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for GOOD WORKS, which God PREPARED BEFOREHAND so that we would WALK IN THEM." (Ephesians 2:8-10}

When we as Christians are judged (as all who have ever lived will be), we will not be judged according to the Law (as the unsaved will be) but by what we did with the knowledge that we obtained with and through our salvation. The works we do after salvation are judged for our reward (or lose). These rewards we will be placing at the feet of our Savior, for His glory. So yes, works do matter after salvation. They are useless before.

[Guest]

But God forbid that I should glory,

save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ,

by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Galatians 6:14

>>>>>(O)<<<<<

.... Thoughts? ....

Either Jesus Saves

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

John 6:47

Or He Doesn't

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Jude 1:24-25

The Real Question Is Not OSAS

Nor Any Other Unbiblicial Philosophical Question

Poised By Men Attempting To Inflict Doubts Upon The Child Of Grace But Who Is Your Brag?

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Romans 3:23-28

[The Quiet One]

Parker wrote.......................

So yes, works do matter after salvation. They are useless before.

We are in agreement.

FresnoJoe,

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Romans 3:23-28

So, Joe, your understanding of salvation is that once you're saved, that nothing else is required? If I misunderstand, forgive me. However, the above scripture clearly refers to sins that are in the past. I know that a man is justified by faith, but what happens AFTER he's justified?

What of Matthew 5:48 which says 'Be ye therefore perfect'.....i.e complete, without blemish?

[Miss Elly]

There seems to be two trains of thought for this subject and that is that when a Christian dies, he goes directly to be with the Lord. The other thought is that we sleep until the resurection. The old testament tells us that those that sleep know nothing.

So I put it to everyone that to the Christian who dies, he/whe would know difference between the two. If the "soul sleep" is actually true, the person who dies will not know the difference, so why should we get all worked up about it.

Truly, it doesn't matter.

I toally agree....it does not affect my salvation one way or the other. Our next conscious thought will be with Jesus Christ, no matter how it is done, immediately or thereafter. I remember I used to be afraid to die....I was very sad with depression and suffered aniexty attacks. I was in the back seat with relatives going to a get-together. I felt so miserable.....believe this or not, but suddenly the flowers on the back seat tv started to glow, get larger and brighter, in fact the entire sceney changed into another demension. IT WAS NOT THE TV. No one else saw anything any different as they watche it. I knew immedately that God was showed me that life was going to be beautiful on the other side. The reason I know it was God because I felt his presence so strong. This is off the subject, but perhaps it will bless someone.