Rick-Parker Posted September 15, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.22 Content Count: 4,274 Content Per Day: 4.72 Reputation: 1,856 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/17/2021 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/03/1955 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Having the right not to say the pledge is part of the First Amendment promising freedom of speech. You cannot force that without infringing or abolishing the First Amendment. You also aren't forced to pledge allegiance to anything that you don't want to, so it is also your rights that are being protexted. Selectively applying freedom of speech makes it only free speech that one side agrees with, and that can work both ways. You mean like what was done to conservative speakers at Columbia and other universities when Bush was president? How hypocritical is that? Liberals keep putting their foot in their mouths now that the shoe is on the other foot. Wonder how that dirty sock tastes? That has nothing to do with what I said whatsoever, and incidents like that are abominable. Making partisan hack attacks like that don't help. The freedom to stay silent is also the freedom to speech. That means students have the right not to say the pledge of allegiance, which also gives you the right to protest against the current administration. Freedom of speech means all speech, the students not to pledge allegiance, and yours to protest. Selectively applying freedom of speech as it applies to political standpoints steeps heavily in the direction of being a tyrant, and Obama has not been restricting freedom of speech in such a manner. Freedom of speech is freedom to speak or not to speak. Where were you when the conservatives and Bush administration officials were shouted down and bum rushed by the left. Were you crying foul then? And what I'm saying is not partisan at all. You're the one being partisan, as you always are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burning_Ember Posted September 15, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,009 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 100 Days Won: 3 Joined: 09/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted September 15, 2009 Freedom of speech is freedom to speak or not to speak. Where were you when the conservatives and Bush administration officials were shouted down and bum rushed by the left. Were you crying foul then? And what I'm saying is not partisan at all. You're the one being partisan, as you always are. The bolded part is what I'm saying. The rest is partisan hackery. Projecting your Partisan Hackery onto me does not make me a partisan hack. You accused me of Hypocrisy regarding this and the Columbia University incident. Hypocrisy in this instance would be me defending freedom of speech in one instance, but attacking it regarding Columbia. Please demonstrate where I attacked the freedom of speech of Conservatives at Columbia, otherwise you are just making up stuff. One other precept of citizens rights is "Your rights stop where my rights begin". Throwing feces at somebody, as happened at Columbia, violates that precept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick-Parker Posted September 15, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.22 Content Count: 4,274 Content Per Day: 4.72 Reputation: 1,856 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/17/2021 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/03/1955 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Selectively applying freedom of speech makes it only free speech that one side agrees with, and that can work both ways. And this is what I was responding to. Did you or did you not rile against those at Columbia and elsewhere who infringed on the freedom of speech rights of those on the right when Bush was President? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burning_Ember Posted September 16, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,009 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 100 Days Won: 3 Joined: 09/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted September 16, 2009 Selectively applying freedom of speech makes it only free speech that one side agrees with, and that can work both ways. And this is what I was responding to. Did you or did you not rile against those at Columbia and elsewhere who infringed on the freedom of speech rights of those on the right when Bush was President? I am not omniscient, and was unaware of the Columbia Incident until you mentioned it here. I can't exactly comment on everything that I don't know about, or comment on everything I do learn about looking at headlines on News Sites. It simply isn't a practical use of time. I can go down a list of things that I saw, and have felt opposed to that were similar. Ann Coulter got pied in the face, if I recall correctly. As did a few Canadian Politicians. While it is comical, I do not support the intimidation that happened, even if it was with pie, whipped cream, lemon meringue, or otherwise. Ann Coulter got shouted down at a University. That wasn't cool either. A Republican Representative at Town Hall got shouted down regarding Healthcare. Regardless of the accuracy of the comments, it was not productive. Many incidents at the recent series of Town Hall meetings that had some degree of Intimidation or Stifling of speech. The disabled women with the "Please hear the voice of the disabled" speech who was being shouted at comes to mind, as do many incidents directed towards the Representatives and Senators themselves. Too big a list to sort through there. You were saying something about me being a hypocrite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted September 19, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.06 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted September 19, 2009 Selectively applying freedom of speech makes it only free speech that one side agrees with, and that can work both ways. And this is what I was responding to. Did you or did you not rile against those at Columbia and elsewhere who infringed on the freedom of speech rights of those on the right when Bush was President? I am not omniscient, and was unaware of the Columbia Incident until you mentioned it here. I can't exactly comment on everything that I don't know about, or comment on everything I do learn about looking at headlines on News Sites. It simply isn't a practical use of time. I can go down a list of things that I saw, and have felt opposed to that were similar. Ann Coulter got pied in the face, if I recall correctly. As did a few Canadian Politicians. While it is comical, I do not support the intimidation that happened, even if it was with pie, whipped cream, lemon meringue, or otherwise. Ann Coulter got shouted down at a University. That wasn't cool either. A Republican Representative at Town Hall got shouted down regarding Healthcare. Regardless of the accuracy of the comments, it was not productive. Many incidents at the recent series of Town Hall meetings that had some degree of Intimidation or Stifling of speech. The disabled women with the "Please hear the voice of the disabled" speech who was being shouted at comes to mind, as do many incidents directed towards the Representatives and Senators themselves. Too big a list to sort through there. You were saying something about me being a hypocrite? You really are so deep into American news.....why don't you just move here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amor Posted September 19, 2009 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,194 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 34 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/18/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted September 19, 2009 Whilst not a great fan of flag worship, the veneration of the nation state, or for of forcing small children to participate in absurd rituals before getting down to serious study, I am amused by the idea of all you proud right-wingers here runing to the defence of the words of Comrade Francis Allen, Baptist pastor and socialist. Do you not fear that you yourselves have been subtely subverted by repeated childhood recitation ofthis leftist propaganda, and should henceforth commit yourself to save the little conservatives of the future being similarly led astray by defending them from the obligation to repeat it themselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Believer1997 Posted September 19, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 66 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,363 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 119 Days Won: 9 Joined: 11/07/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted September 19, 2009 Whilst not a great fan of flag worship, the veneration of the nation state, or for of forcing small children to participate in absurd rituals before getting down to serious study, I am amused by the idea of all you proud right-wingers here runing to the defence of the words of Comrade Francis Allen, Baptist pastor and socialist. Do you not fear that you yourselves have been subtely subverted by repeated childhood recitation ofthis leftist propaganda, and should henceforth commit yourself to save the little conservatives of the future being similarly led astray by defending them from the obligation to repeat it themselves? What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted September 19, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.92 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Author Share Posted September 19, 2009 I think he said, "People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones." But I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Believer1997 Posted September 19, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 66 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,363 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 119 Days Won: 9 Joined: 11/07/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted September 19, 2009 I think he said, "People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones." But I'm not sure. Thanks for the translation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted September 20, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.06 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted September 20, 2009 Whilst not a great fan of flag worship, the veneration of the nation state, or for of forcing small children to participate in absurd rituals before getting down to serious study, I am amused by the idea of all you proud right-wingers here runing to the defence of the words of Comrade Francis Allen, Baptist pastor and socialist. Do you not fear that you yourselves have been subtely subverted by repeated childhood recitation ofthis leftist propaganda, and should henceforth commit yourself to save the little conservatives of the future being similarly led astray by defending them from the obligation to repeat it themselves? Seeing as how you're not American, you've really no frame of reference. You're so backwards on this subject that you really shouldn't comment. No one in the U.S. is forced to recite the Pledge of Allegiance. And it was NOT written by Francis Allen. The writer of the Pledge was Francis Bellamy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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