Messianic Jews

[rafter]

Mostly this is posted to Yod and Shiloh357, however anyone may feel free to respond. I was thinking about more and more Jews accepting Yeshua as Messiah and I was wondering how this would affect the American church. On the surface I thought this would spark revival. However some sinking feeling inside me says this won't be so. I actually believe the gentile church will fight against the Messianic Jews. Already I can see the tendency to resist teaching about Torah observance. There will be fights and divisions, and I think many who embrace the Messianic Jew will be asked to leave the gentile church as well.

I don't think it is as simple as christians being afraid Messianic Jews are replacing grace with the Law, which I have come to see is a misunderstanding. I think pride is going to have a lot to do with it also. I know it has been very humbling for me as my understanding as increased about the Jewishness of Christianity. I actually feel ashamed of not understanding the jewishness of the faith I hold dear. Yeshua is fully Jewish in the flesh. So are those whose writings I hold dear. There has to be a real reason why this has been hidden from the gentiles all these years. Is it that we were willfully decieved?

Don't get me wrong dear brothers and sisters, I believe that faith in Jesus is all I need for salvation. Actually confessing Him as Lord and believing God raised Him from the dead. However when I see things in the church such as, it is almost an unforgivable sin to not tithe, but keeping the Sabbath is optional, or the eating of unclean meat, I fear for us and our knowledge of the truth. We have our own set of man made rules, but we bristle when someone actually wants to observe the Torah.

To be clear my ? is how do you think the American church is going to respond to all these Jews accepting Jesus?

Looking forward to the comments.....

[Guest yod]

Yeshua will separate the sheep from the goats based on how they are treated according to Matthew 25:31-46. It's kinda scary when you read that passage from that perspective (which is the correct one yet has been interpreted differently for centuries)

I'm not worried about anything but being on the right side in that day! The Lord is our shield

Check out what Coach McCartney (PromiseKeepers founder) says....

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...D=2004403270314

[AllforJesustheLord]

What I am really interested in is the 144,000, if I am still alive at that time what they will do, and look like. If I could see them doing various different things, I would do what they instruct no matter what that is, because I see they will be blessed of God.

[Guest yod]

you want to see what they look like?

I'll take you to see them in October if you can go to Israel.

[apothanein kerdos]

When my Zada converted from Judaism to Christianity he was shunned by his family and no church would take him. For some reason, many Christians have a problem with Jews.

[Guest yod]

Yes....sad but true.

The worst thing is their total blindness that they are even doing it. Arrogance won't let them repent.

But that is going to change soon, SJ.....real soon.

[Guest yod]

I was thinking about more and more Jews accepting Yeshua as Messiah..

thanks

and I was wondering how this would affect the American church. On the surface I thought this would spark revival. However some sinking feeling inside me says this won't be so. I actually believe the gentile church will fight against the Messianic Jews.

you say that like it's "future" tense?

It is happening already....it has been happening for as long as there has been a jewish church or a jewish revival. There are a lot of folks here at WB who go to forward thinking churches and would NEVER believe that christians in churches could actually be acrimonious towards the jews. Not to mention basic treatment of each other as humans....but woefully t'ain't so.

Already I can see the tendency to resist teaching about Torah observance. There will be fights and divisions, and I think many who embrace the Messianic Jew will be asked to leave the gentile church as well.

I think you may be right...and I hate it.

there was a thread recently where no matter what was said by a messianic, it was twisted to mean something exactly opposite of what was said..and then replied to.

I didn't take it personally for the first 15 pages of the thread....then I lost it.

I see this kind of refusal to even consider the possibility that Israel is still the Chosen People of the Book in people who have never read the Torah. That....is the problem. You can't talk to them.

Those folks usually only know verses in the last third of the Bible (Except for a few choice passages in Romans 9,10,11) and think they have God's plan for the jews all figured out?

I don't think it is as simple as christians being afraid Messianic Jews are replacing grace with the Law, which I have come to see is a misunderstanding. I think pride is going to have a lot to do with it also. I know it has been very humbling for me as my understanding as increased about the Jewishness of Christianity. I actually feel ashamed of not understanding the jewishness of the faith I hold dear. Yeshua is fully Jewish in the flesh. So are those whose writings I hold dear. There has to be a real reason why this has been hidden from the gentiles all these years. Is it that we were willfully decieved?

Now you are talking in the "past" tense???

You and I and quite a few others around here are testimony that God IS doing something in the nations regarding Israel.

Here's my wild conspiracy theory: I think we are going to pay for it from these same folks someday. The indifference of 1930s German christianity has come to America.

Don't get me wrong dear brothers and sisters, I believe that faith in Jesus is all I need for salvation. Actually confessing Him as Lord and believing God raised Him from the dead. However when I see things in the church such as, it is almost an unforgivable sin to not tithe, but keeping the Sabbath is optional, or the eating of unclean meat, I fear for us and our knowledge of the truth. We have our own set of man made rules, but we bristle when someone actually wants to observe the Torah.

sounds like good analysis to me.

To be clear my ? is how do you think the American church is going to respond to all these Jews accepting Jesus?

Looking forward to the comments.....

First???

....they are going to be really ticked that they missed the timing of the rapture!

Then they are going to see the greatest revival of all time....and the tares will be separated from the wheat.

[Trinity]

These conflicts are happening on the Forums Jews vs. Gentile tisk...tisk...tisk...

Well if that ever happens im starting my own church for both hehe

[Trinity]

I am not a Jew but i love and support you guys, in what ever you do. You are God's chosen and i will watch over God's people. i keep them in my prayers. and i laugh at those who try to make distions(sp) for God.

Jeremiah 31:37

This is what the LORD says: "Only if the heavens above can be measured and the foundations of the earth below be searched out will I reject all the descendants of Israel because of all they have done," declares the LORD .

case closed God didn't reject his people no matter what they do.

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Rafter,

To be clear my ? is how do you think the American church is going to respond to all these Jews accepting Jesus?

I personally make a distinction between the "organized church" and the "saints of God". The scripture reveals that towards the end and the beginning of the Great Tribulation, the "organized church" will no longer listen to sound doctrine, they will become apostate, and God will spew them out of His mouth. So I agree with you in regards to the "apostate church". However, I find a REAL love for the Jews among "the saints of God". They pray for them and support ministries to them and have a sincere heart to help them so that Christ is honored.

Another thing I have found, and I won't say this is applicable to ALL Messianics, but the "gentile Messianic" churches have a large portion of their members who would drag us back under the law - with an overemphasis on keeping the Sabbath - that is Friday evening to Saturday evening.

OTOH, I have been in touch with many Jewish Messianics. They may worship on the Sabbath, but do not require it of the Gentiles, nor do they believe it is a mandatory requirement of the Bible, it is just THEIR custom. I love that - they got it right! I would be happy to worship with them on the Sabbath, but I would go on worshipping on every other day of the week as well.

Now as for actual numbers of Jews coming to Christ, scripture say, and it is born out by the FACTS, God has always kept a "remnant" and continues to do so today. Of the 16 million Jews now on the planet, less that 1% of them are Messianic. Israel which has either 5.4 or 6.2 million Jews has perhaps a 1-2% ratio according to our board owner George. This is certainly ONLY a remnant.

But the "fulness of the gentiles be come in (to the Kingdom of God)", has not come to full fruition yet. When we see that, then we can expect the hearts of the Jews all over the world to radically change as God Himself intercedes through His saints to reach out to the Jews.

We are indebted to the Jews, but I would guess that many don't understand that. But only the TRUE Children of God will look forward to and welcome them into our midst. Personally I have found that they have insights into the scriptures which goes far beyond the meager gentile perceptions. I look forward to their incorporation into the Body of Christ.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie