Confession

[pokemaughan]

Yes. That is true. Outside the one holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church there is no salvation.

Chapter/verse please

[Hunterpoet]

Jesus did give the church the power to pronounce the forgiveness of sins.

Would you please tell me where to find this in the gospel.

Mt 16.19, 18.18, Jn 20.23 for starters.

Mt.16:19 Is about the authority given to the Apostles to teach and preach the gospel. Albert Barnes Comm. It was not to forgive individuals, but to establish in all churches the terms and conditions on which men might be.

Adam Clark Comm. When the Jews made a man a doctor of law, they put into his hand a key of a closet in the temple where the sacred books were kept, and also tablets to write upon, signifying, by this, that they gave him the authority to teach and explain the scriptures.

Binding and loosing were terms in frequent use among the Jews, and that they meant binding or forbidding, granting or refusing, declaring lawful or unlawful, this is in reference to John20:23

Authority is given to determine who is worthy to be a member of the church( see Isaiah 22:22).

How can a priest or minister know a man's heart and determine whether he is worthy of forgiveness.

Almighty God through the, one time only, sacrifice ,made by our Lord Christ Jesus, accepts this payment in atonement for the sins of all mankind. Why then, would a priest, able to forgive sin( as you say), require penance, when God Almighty Himself does not require the same?

Acts6:6 Albert Barnes, Among the Jews it was customary to lay hands on the head of a person who was set apart to any particular office(Nu,27:18) also (Ac.8:19). This was done, not to impart any power or ability, but to designate that they received their authority or commission, from those who laid their hands on them...

2Timothy1:6 Albert Barnes, that thou stir up the gift of God,, That thou kindle as a fire, the original word here denotes the kindling of a fire. The idea is, that Timothy was to use all proper means to keep the flame of pure religion in the soul burning, and more particularly his zeal in the great cause to which he had been set apart.

which is in thee by putting on of my hands, In connection with the presbytery(see 1Ti4:14). This proves that Paul took part in the ordination of Timothy, but it does not prove either that he performed the duty alone, or that the " ordaining virtue ", whatever it was, was imparted by him only, for it is expressly said in 1 Ti 4:14, that he was ordained by the laying on of the hands of the presbytery, of which Paul was doubtless one....

2Timothy2:2 Brethren commentary...From the concluding part of the verse " who shall be able to teach others also ", it is implied that the ' things " here alluded to include all things Paul had taught him pertaining to the doctrines of the Christian religion and how he should conduct himself as a minister of Christ.

On verse 2 Adam Clarke says this.. but where is the uninterrupted apostolic succession. Who can tell? Probably it does not exist on the face of the world. All pretensions to it by certain churches are as stupid as they are idle and futile. He who appeals to this for his authority as a Christian minister, had best sit down till he has made it out....

Titus1:5..John Wesley, Ordain Elders- Appoint the most faithful, zealous men to watch over the rest. Their character follows, Titus1:6-9. These were the elders, or bishops, that Paul approved of, men that had living faith, a pure conscience, a blameless life.

I consulted more than the commentaries I quoted above. Consistent throughout was the declaration that only God can forgive sin and that the authority given to the church was to teach and preach the gospel and to maintain the truth in the teaching.

[JCISGD]

Yes. That is true. Outside the one holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church there is no salvation.

Chapter/verse please

I might be wrong but i dont think LeoX111 is upholding the belief, only stating this is R.C official teaching. Im not sure if Leo is Catholic either i dont think so, but we will have wait for his? return. Seems to have hit and run

[humbleseeker]

I have the athourity to forgive someone. In fact Christ demands that I forgive. My own personall forgivence, not from God but from me because I as a Christian I am suppose to act as Christ would act. Forgiveness that leads to salvation is only done through faith in Jesus Christ crucified and rose again for the remision of sins. That is what the Apostle taught that is what I believe. I am not catholic abviously I know if you are that you were raised that way and dont know any better just as you think of me. But the simple fact is a man with a seminary degree thats had hands laid on him from a Bishop dose not make him a man that is worthy to go before the throne of God the father and grant that a persons sins are forgiven. Jesus was found worthy to do such and sits at the right hand of God interceding for us.

[pokemaughan]

I have the athourity to forgive someone. In fact Christ demands that I forgive. My own personall forgivence, not from God but from me because I as a Christian I am suppose to act as Christ would act. Forgiveness that leads to salvation is only done through faith in Jesus Christ crucified and rose again for the remision of sins. That is what the Apostle taught that is what I believe. I am not catholic abviously I know if you are that you were raised that way and dont know any better just as you think of me. But the simple fact is a man with a seminary degree thats had hands laid on him from a Bishop dose not make him a man that is worthy to go before the throne of God the father and grant that a persons sins are forgiven. Jesus was found worthy to do such and sits at the right hand of God interceding for us.

[leoxiii]

Yes. That is true. Outside the one holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church there is no salvation.

Chapter/verse please

Acts 2:47 And the Lord increased daily together such as should be saved.

Jesus founded His Church, His one and only Bride, and every day adds to Her all those who are being saved.

[leoxiii]

My friends -- I will defend the teachings of the Catholic Church, but only with the permission of the Moderators, and only where and when they allow it. In the meantime, I will restrict myself to just stating those beliefs where necessary and providing the Biblical references for them. No doubt you will disagree with many of those teachings. I have found over the years that debating about our different beliefs is pointless. We each have our minds made up. We each follow our own traditions in interpreting the Scriptures. So, rather than debate our differences, let us just discuss them, learn from each other, and have fellowship together.

[~Shalhevet~]

I am a Catholic and have never understood why Catholics have to confess their sins to a priest. Wouldn't it be better to confess directly to Jesus and ask for forgiveness?

I don't agree that you have to confess your sins to a priest to be forgiven. The Catholic answer is that they are not forgiving sins that only Christ can forgive sins, but that the Priest is His instrument on earth to proclaim that forgiveness, or to NOT proclaim that forgiveness when someone is not really sorry or they would say have the proper contrition.

Where does this power come from?

6Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." 17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter,[c] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[d] will not overcome it.[e] 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[f] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[g] loosed in heaven."

21Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." 22And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.

The difference is that we Protestants believe that this is referring to the general group of all believers and that John 21 above is only referring to the Apostles.

Catholics believe that Peter was the first leader and Pope and they get this from Matthew above and they further believe that their Church is the spiritual follow on to the Apostles and thus they would continue what is being spoken of in John 21.

Why didn't you ask your priest this?

The problem is in my opinion that Protestants go to far in rejecting confession it is much easier to ask for forgiveness of Christ who does not talk back and cause us shame. But I think Catholics go to far in demanding that you go to a priest for confession and further that it is actually possible to confess all of your sins.

Anyway that is a summary.

I have to agree with you here. Confession to another human is not necessary for forgiveness but it isn't a bad thing to do. I never understood the whole punishment and hail mary thing. But I'm not a catholic either.

[~Shalhevet~]

John 20:21 speaks of spreading the Good News! The apostles CAN NOT pay the sacrifice! There is no "magical power" that allows sins to be covered without blood! This was the entire OT system of sacrifice- there MUST be blood- and then Jesus (God) came and paid the ULTIMATE sacrifice in shedding His blood for all.

The laying of hands also has nothing to do with forgiving sins, but healing... come on, guys. Don't twist things to what you want.

To alleviate your confusion, here is the entire portion of John 20 we are referring to.

Jesus Appears to His Disciples

19On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 20After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.

21Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." 22And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

It does not mention anything here about healing. Jesus is giving his disciples the power to forgive through the Holy Spirit.

[Smalcald]

I am not defending Catholics, but we should be clear about what they believe. The Catholic Catechism states that other Christians who are not members of the RCC can be in communion with them as Christians although imperfectly.

So not being a formal member of the RCC in their own view does not deny one salvation automatically.

They would still hold that they are the true Church though.

But what you find is that most Catholics know very little about their own teachings, this is one of their problems, many Catholics think that going through the motions of the sacraments and all of the sacramentels will save them, when they don't even know the basics about what Christ did or scripture or their own Church teachings. To the degree that the Catholic Church fails their own people in this way is the degree that they are complicit in sending them to their own demise.

If the RCC actually lived up to what its true teachings are I would have less of a problem with them. But it seems they are more interested in form over function. Holy water, blessings, the Rosary the Hail Mary all can be great if done with faith. Yet most Catholics in the US don't even know what the sacraments are nor understand them, and the RCC does not seem to care.

They make a big deal over abortion being an intrinsic evil and it is, they are correct, but then we have the fact that over half of all Catholics in the US are pro-choice. The Church breeds hypocritical actions. They need to get rid of the Bishops with limo's and mansions and private jets (which is what some of them have) and start serving their people.