Worship in Spirit and Truth

[stevehut]

social events are NOT worship. They are for our enjoyment...

Well, in my esperience, fellowship at church is not just talking about the weather and sports and movies. A great many spiritual conversations can take place there, which sometimes reach a person more deeply than the sermon. If done properly, this is not fluff. It's a part of the larger ministry of a church.

[Guest JohnSC]

John 4:23

[ServingHim]

I personally do not believe the verses were pointing to a

[Guest JohnSC]

ServingHim,

john, is it necessary to ever go to 'church' and worship as a 'community'...?

That might be a touchy subject! I am sure many people will feel strongly that community worship is not only proper but within the spirit of Scriptures as well. For other people, they may feel that while community worship is good, it is not a necessity for salvation nor for the 'fulfillment of all righteousness'.

An idealistic situation would be numerous 'continuously worshipping' individuals to come together for worship and prayer. Imagine the felt sensation of love in the air!

It appears correct to me that foremost emphasis should first be placed upon the individual level (to attain constant prayer first) prior to considering community worship. Each person however is different, and should approach it as is most honest with their own heart. Much good can come from community worship, and though it might not be as important as the individual level of worship, the gathering of like-hearted individuals has an honorable value of its own.

John 5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

Mt 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

In my opinion, it is best to first seek personal honor with God, to be able to not be ashamed of our hearts being known, and then whatsoever our hearts lead us to, then that too will be of honor.

[ServingHim]

why do you suppose the Israelites had 'stringent' regulations for worship, and if they failed in any of them, especially at the Passover, there were grave consequences (i.e. if the didn't sprinkle the blood on the doorpost and eat the lamb at the 'passover' in Exodus 12, then first born children were KILLED, regardless where their 'hearts' were?)... Why do you think that God has left it all up to us how WE FEEL about how we're to worship...I have to say I disagree with you somewhat, but understand where you're coming from.

[tsth]

What has become of reverence and awe?

In His Love,

Suzanne

[ServingHim]

What has become of reverence and awe?

Absolutely ... reverance and awe...that is how I feel every time I receive Christ in the Eucharist... :il:

[Guest JohnSC]

ServingHim,

I think you and I are looking at the same thing, just from slightly different angles, which can indeed make communication less that ideally exact.

why do you suppose the Israelites had 'stringent' regulations for worship, and if they failed in any of them, especially at the Passover, there were grave consequences (i.e. if the didn't sprinkle the blood on the doorpost and eat the lamb at the 'passover' in Exodus 12, then first born children were KILLED, regardless where their 'hearts' were?)...  Why do you think that God has left it all up to us how WE FEEL about how we're to worship...I have to say I disagree with you somewhat, but understand where you're coming from.

Agreed, there were some instances where specific commands were to be taken literally, seriously, and without alteration, or else suffer the consequences (such as you stated about the original Passover), as were there also prophesies made by the prophets:

Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

From what I remember (I cannot think of exact verses to help convey the idea), the feasts and holy days were meant to be strict, yet too, merely attending a feast and vocally speaking the same words as everyone else (such as is currently done in some Middle-Eastern religions that require physical obedience but do not require spiritual obedience), is not quite a full definition of the term "worship". Like what Suzanne said, "What has become of reverence and awe?". Without reverence and awe of God (which arises from the spirit/heart), any outward show of attending a holy day, while not worshipping in spirit and truth (and reverence and all others), would not be a truthful expression of worshipping.

You are completely correct, the old laws were strict and meant to be obeyed fully and to the letter. However, with the new promises of Christ, the laws have been replaced with grace; they are now spiritual, not physical.

Col. 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

16

[ServingHim]

ServingHim,

I think you and I are looking at the same thing, just from slightly different angles, which can indeed make communication less that ideally exact.

perhaps we are, JohnC... Peace...

[ServingHim]

We today are not bound by commandment to attend any festival nor holy day. We can still attend if we choose of course, but it is not a commandment to do so.

AMEN...it's a CHOICE! Thank you for re-iterating that.

A rude child can be commanded to behave, but a polite child does not have to be commanded to behave because he already behaves. Though both children might live under the same law of politeness, only the rude child is the one having to obey, because the polite child is naturally polite.

Again, absolutely right! Again, it's all in the attitude.