MorningGlory Posted November 13, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.09 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted November 13, 2009 How is that applicable to this conversation? Not to speak for Joe but.....horse trough - manger.....kinda in the same category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikki1 Posted November 13, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 98 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,260 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 55 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2009 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 13, 2009 The discussion on this thread is quite revealing, there is so much negativity that is speculative, baseless and in my opinion self-righteously judgmental...which probably needs to be addressed alot more than the Pastor. Thoughtfully....Botz I don't think I am being judgemental when I saw that I think that gambling in church is not scriptural. I don't think it is, and while I in no way question this pastors love or commitment for the Lord, I just think that the way he is going about his services at the moment is wrong. There can be so many ramifications arising from this. stuff we cannot even know because it happens behind closed doors. So I don't judge him, or the church, but this is not scriptural, thats all. Those are my sentiments, also Fez... however, I believe Christians are to judge fellow believers righteously. John 7:24 with Scripture as our guide. This is not to be confused with judging their souls. Blessings, Nikki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaiah 6:8 Posted November 13, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 426 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 3,633 Content Per Day: 0.58 Reputation: 222 Days Won: 13 Joined: 03/23/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/26/1978 Share Posted November 13, 2009 The discussion on this thread is quite revealing, there is so much negativity that is speculative, baseless and in my opinion self-righteously judgmental...which probably needs to be addressed alot more than the Pastor. Thoughtfully....Botz I don't think I am being judgemental when I saw that I think that gambling in church is not scriptural. I don't think it is, and while I in no way question this pastors love or commitment for the Lord, I just think that the way he is going about his services at the moment is wrong. There can be so many ramifications arising from this. stuff we cannot even know because it happens behind closed doors. So I don't judge him, or the church, but this is not scriptural, thats all. Now Fez...did I mention your name! Isaiah 6:8 said.... amen fez. no one saw my post it seems! Ahem bro...if you were following what was being said, you will find that I made a clear, positive and direct reference to your well reasoned input. Best regards. Botz Sorry I missed it, Hey I replied at like 2:30 am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerioke Posted November 13, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 97 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,850 Content Per Day: 0.84 Reputation: 128 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/11/1911 Share Posted November 13, 2009 The greatest music of all time is Christian or sacred music ( Bach, Beethoven , Handel etc.) so why should we worship him with anything less? Hank (to a "hardcore" christian rock band): "Can't you see you're not making christianity any better, you're just making rock 'n roll worse". Larry Norman would disagree with you as I would. You do realize that Bach and Beethoven were contemporary at one time. I wonder what the pew critics were saying then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axxman Posted November 13, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 24 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,292 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/21/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted November 13, 2009 I have no problem with a large church I think there are around 600 members at mine, some are E and C Christians - it's not that - it is the fact that there is no discretion in helping out this person financially. I mean if a family needed help they should approach the pastor or priest and tell them that way the pastor can show discretion in using those funds and it doesn't get broadcasted around the church so and so just received money - I have been in this situation in which my daughter needed medical attention and I couldn't afford it and the church so graciously helped me out - but this was at the discretion of the priest - he didn't broadcast this but was there when I needed it. Now if I had a new car and a big house and was just trying to get something for free it would be wrong for the rector to give me money. Sometimes when someone needs help the last thing they need is money- give a crackhead money and they will burn it up- I just think this is wrong on so many levels - but one thing is true the church needs to help those in need in our communities by feeding and clothing and ministering. "So it doesn't get broadcasted around the church?" The church is your family. You keep secrets from the family? You need discretion from the family? That doesn't fly at my church. You need help at my church it would almost be offensive if you didn't stand up and ask for it. If you are having spiritual trouble...you stand up and talk about it. Same goes for finances, need for prayer, need for forgiveness, or maybe you just have some good news to share with the family. I just don't get the concept of "discretion" in a family when it comes to needing help or advice. I also disagree with the notion that you have to screen the people you give money too. You have basically labled this church as worshipping mammon, gambling, and now...giving money to their crackhead members. I just don't get it. You don't ever give money to the homeless? You've never been led to financially bless a stranger? Sometimes you just have to trust that God will use your actions to His glory...and not worry about the worldly aspects. Let me ask you this...lets say that someone in your church was financially blessed by God and they felt motivated by God to start giving money away random at your church...for no other reason than to just bless people. Would you object to them blessing people financially? Would you object if they blessed you with $500 for no other reason than they wanted you to be happy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Believer1997 Posted November 13, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 66 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,363 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 119 Days Won: 9 Joined: 11/07/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted November 13, 2009 You know, Axx... I've never looked at things this way - but I think you may be right. At the onset of this thread, I thought that this church was really all wrong - but maybe the pastor has been led to do this... and I think people in his church are being blessed. My initial response was that this was wrong and just sad -but in these times, maybe this is what this pastor's flock needed. Our church also does not broadcast the needs of someone unless they expressly wish it to be announced. There are many people who are receiving assistance that have never done so before. Sign of the times, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSLewis Posted November 14, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 828 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/28/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/28/1980 Share Posted November 14, 2009 The greatest music of all time is Christian or sacred music ( Bach, Beethoven , Handel etc.) so why should we worship him with anything less? Hank (to a "hardcore" christian rock band): "Can't you see you're not making christianity any better, you're just making rock 'n roll worse". Larry Norman would disagree with you as I would. You do realize that Bach and Beethoven were contemporary at one time. I wonder what the pew critics were saying then. Of course he would. Hahaha these are my personal opinions if you want to worship God with honky tonk music or spoons that is not a problem - certainly we should give him our best. Which in my opinion is classical music, on the organ, with a choir and the best vestments and the best liturgy- but that is my opinion and I do not judge you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSLewis Posted November 14, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 828 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/28/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/28/1980 Share Posted November 14, 2009 Axxman That is absurd. God is not concerned with happiness. He is concerned with holiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Believer1997 Posted November 14, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 66 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,363 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 119 Days Won: 9 Joined: 11/07/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted November 14, 2009 I've been to all kinds of churches before - from wooden country churches that seat about 50 to some beautiful cathedrals. I also enjoy classical music and traditional services - I feel closer to God when I am in peaceful surroundings. Contemporary is great if that is what makes one happy and close to God. He must be at the center of all worship... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSLewis Posted November 14, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 828 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/28/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/28/1980 Share Posted November 14, 2009 I've been to all kinds of churches before - from wooden country churches that seat about 50 to some beautiful cathedrals. I also enjoy classical music and traditional services - I feel closer to God when I am in peaceful surroundings. Contemporary is great if that is what makes one happy and close to God. He must be at the center of all worship... But he is not at the center of worship if we are concerned with what makes us happy and FEEL close to God. How about we worship him. I really do enjoy rock music but when I go to a church that plays this kind of music I find myself not worshipping him but listening to the music. It's a concert and not a worship service. Do you understand what I mean? The hymns actually contain doctrine and scripture. I (and I am speaking for myself here) can't worship God in a church like this . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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