Who is Judah?

[tsth]

My docerines are none existant.  I attend no religious organization of any kind Christian/Jew/Muslim/Hindu/Buddist/Shinto/Taoist/any legally recongnized "cult" (ie christian science, island self etermination squad, Rolls Royce purchasing congration, Seventh Day reject and ATF combat battalion, to name a few)  So I follow NO docterine, organization, institution, etc., etc.

Let me be a little more precise in what I "can" see of you tiger.  You obviously have heard and know the Scriptures, it is what you are doing with them that I am wondering about.  You see, some use them to "try" to deceive.  I can understand privacy, but you have not been private about the fact that you have heard and read the Scriptures.  You have been very bold in the conveying that you know them.  You are just not very clear on what you intend to do with them.  You see, there are some who are very crafty and can twist them to deceive.  I just don't understand why you are so vague, because you are either desiring a renewed fellowship with the Lord, or you are promoting a seperation from Him.  I wonder if you have thought about that enough to answer the question?

We are human with all the greatness and "darkness" that comes in our condition.  

John 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

Eph. 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

Acts 26:15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. 16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; 17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, 18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

In His Truth,

Suzanne

[Guest Tigershark]

My docerines are none existant.

[Guest Xan]

Suzanne, I realize I might be going out on a limb (or into deep waters ), but I see a vast difference between Tiger's posts and the posts of those who follow a false doctrine on these boards.  Those who follow a false doctrine and twist scriptures to make them "say" something not intended by the writers try to push their agenda on other members.  "Sharky" has not done that.  Most of the Bible confounds him, and though he is obviously knowledgeable of scripture, it is clear he does not understand and he is trying to.  Also, I have noticed there are some parts of the Bible he will not be swayed on, and in those things he is interpreting the Bible the way it is written- not with an agenda.

TS, my heart goes out to you.  I pray you do not end up like Charles Templeton.  If you have questions, I will try to answer them.  But remember, I am not God, and I cannot speak for Him.  There are things about the character and the actions of God no one can truly understand because we are humans.  I heard a story once that illustrates this well:

A shepard and his faithful sheepdog, Buck worked well together many years.  Buck never questioned anything his master did or asked him to do.  He did it because he loved his master.  The sheep were not quite as faithful and did not understand whenever the shepard would tell Buck to round up the sheep.  Sometimes Buck would have to nip them in the rear to get them to move.  The sheep really hated it when the shepard and his dog forced them into a huge bucket of foul smelling water.  The kind shepard, knowing the flea bath was good for them to keep away the pests that would seek to destroy their skin and beautiful wool coat, forced them in with Buck growling threateningly.  The shepard was not able to explain to the sheep why the bath was so important to them.  He also wasn't able to explain to Buck when he had to go into the flea dip, but Buck always trusted that the master knows what is best.

[tsth]

Suzanne, I realize I might be going out on a limb (or into deep waters  ), but I see a vast difference between Tiger's posts and the posts of those who follow a false doctrine on these boards.  Those who follow a false doctrine and twist scriptures to make them "say" something not intended by the writers try to push their agenda on other members.  "Sharky" has not done that.  Most of the Bible confounds him, and though he is obviously knowledgeable of scripture, it is clear he does not understand and he is trying to.

Dear Xan,

Thank you for your post.  As I don't want to offend Tiger in any way, I won't say more, (forgive me tiger, not trying to talk around you), other than, I truly believe tiger "gets" what I'm getting at, I think?  In any event, I just can't see discussing doctrine about something that I'm needing further conformation on or teaching on, from someone who does not proclaim to serve or follow Jesus Christ, as I am a believer and child of God, I'm needing confirmation here, and tiger (sorry to say) is not who I should be getting counsel or teaching from at this point, but Tiger knows (at least I hope he does) that I really wished we could have continued this discussion, but in honor of my unity with my Lord, I just can't.  It wouldn't be wise for me to do so.  But I like you, do not wish in any way to offend tiger, and I'm pretty sure he knows that. I'm just trying to be honest here, in saying it wouldn't make sense for me as a Christian, to seek counsel from a non-believer, in something that I feel the Lord is teaching me about, or showing me, and something that I do not understand.  It is too important, and as badly as I want to discuss it further (boy was I thrilled when tiger was in understanding of what I was seeing as well) only to find out that he cannot be one to instruct me, it wouldn't be right.  I realize it sounds kind of dramatic, and like I'm making a big deal out of a discussion, but this particular topic is something I don't want to fool around with, since I don't have a full understanding of it, but it is seemingly very important.

But I like you, do not wish in any way to offend tiger, and I'm pretty sure he knows that.

Don't you sharky?  

:inlove:

In His Love,

Suzanne

[tsth]

Most of the Bible confounds him, and though he is obviously knowledgeable of scripture, it is clear he does not understand and he is trying to.  

I don't agree with you here though.  I believe sharky understands more than you think.  He's just not happy about it.

(Ok, sharky I'll quit now)      

In His Truth,

Suzanne

[Guest Xan]

That's very wise, Suz.  Don't seek council from non-Christians, particularly when it pertains to scripture.  I just wanted to clarify that he is searching, too.  And that he is not like some of the other people we have had problems with.  I'm glad you understand each other on this.

TS, I read what you wrote about Judah.  It blows me away how it is that you understand certain things that many Christians are trying to grasp.  You and TSTH both are doing a beautiful job of explaining who the Christians are in relation to Judah.  But I must correct you in one thing.  The other "tribes" as you called them in Zecharriah are not other tribes, but they are some of the clans in Judah.  But listen to what is said in Zecharriah 9:7 "And I will remove their [Gentiles] blood from their mouth and their detestable things from between their teeth.  Then they also will be a remnent for our God, and be like a clan in Judah..."

[tsth]

Dear Xan,

Care to take a look at these and comment?  Just wondering if you had any thoughts.

Zech. 12:2 to be precise.

How about Ps. 78:68,

Jer. 31:33 - why in addressing both Israel and Judah in the chapter, this particular part speaks only of Israel.  I think it is because it has already been put in Judah's heart.  I believe Judah is the picture of the current day Christians.  Christ is from the line of Judah right?

Jer. 33:24  2 kingdoms God chose?  Who else could those 2 be?  Jewish and Christians?

I also notice that Edom is bent on destroying these 2 particular kingdoms.  Sound familiar?

In response Xan, (please forgive me here, cause I'm just not real clear on understanding the tribes in the OT) In terms of Zech. 9:7 that speaks of the Philistines.

Also how about what I posted earlier on this:

I'll mention this again, Jer. 31:33 - why in addressing both Israel and Judah in the chapter, this particular part speaks only of Israel.  I think it is because it has already been put in Judah's heart.  I believe Judah is the picture of the current day Christians.  Christ is from the line of Judah right?

(take a look)

Also, in Ezekiel 35:10, I see that as symbolic of today, with the nations of Islam (Edom), being against the Christians and Jews, (America and Israel)  Christians for having no fear of the Lord.  Jer. 3:8, we have also gone out and committed adultery.  Jer. 5:11-12, but all of 5.

For both, the Lord is always on our lips, but far from our hearts.

We have done no different than the Jews, we are disobedient and show a lack of belief.  Hebrews 3:12  See to it brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart (unbelieving and disobeying are interchangeable within these passages) that turns away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sins deceitfulness.  14 We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.  15 As has just been said:  

"Today, if you hear his voice,

do not harden your hearts as

you did in the rebellion.."

Any prayer and study on this would be appreciated.

Thank you.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Guest Tigershark]

Suzanne, I realize I might be going out on a limb (or into deep waters ), but I see a vast difference between Tiger's posts and the posts of those who follow a false doctrine on these boards.

[Guest Xan]

tsth, it is a very interesting study.  I wish I had all the answers on this one, but I don't.  I have my speculations on some of what you mentioned, but no hard core facts.  So these are just my own renderings, take them for what its worth.

Zech 12:2 "Behold, I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that causes reeling to all the peoples around; and when the siege is against Jursalem, it will also be against Judah."  This is the very verse that started me thinking that maybe Judah isn't all that it seems to be.  7 "The Lord will save the tents of Judah first, so that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalme will not be magnified above Judah."  Why the distinct seperation of a house in Judah and the capital of Judah from the rest of the tribe?  The only reason that I can see is if there is more to this tribe than what meets the eye.  As Christians, we are grafted in to the same tree that supports Israel.  How did we get grafted in?  Through Yeshua (Jesus) of the tribe of Judah.  Both Revelations and Ezekial talk about the new city of Jerusalem when God comes down to rule.  The city will have 12 gates with each of the tribes names on them.  Which gate shall we go through?  My geuss- Judah.

Sorry, I can't answer Jeremiah 31:33.  I simply don't know.

Jeremiah 33:24 is about the nations of Israel and Judah.

Zechariah 9:7 could be talking about just the 4 cities that were completely demolished and perhaps the survivors aligned themselves with Judah, but as fast as chapter 9 rushes through the future, I wonder if there are not 2 messages concerning the mongrel clans of Judah?  Once again, my own speculation.

I will look more into what else you have posted, but I think envolving America is a stretch.

[tsth]

Dear Xan,

Sorry for the short post, but no time tonight to go further.  Just wanted to say that I involve America, speaking of it because we are founded as an original Christian nation, and known by other nations as such.  And I refer back to God speaking of the other nations of the world recognizing God's dealing with the "2" nations, singled out, as in the Scriptures I mentioned.  It specifically says that the other nations will recognize God's singling out these 2 nations alone.

In His Love,

Suzanne