Is Jesus God?

[JohnD]

IS JESUS GOD?

First we must establish {what} or {who} God is.

1 Timothy 1:2 (NASB95)

2 To Timothy, my true child in the faith: Grace, mercy and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.

The Father is God.

John 1:1 (NASB95)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 (NASB95)

14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

The Son is God.

Acts 5:3-4 (NASB95)

3 But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land?

4 “While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.”

The Holy Spirit is God.

IS JESUS GOD?

Just showed that he is. The question about the question is... is Jesus God in totality? Is Jesus one person in the Godhead?

Jesus is fully God but he is not the totality of God. He is equally God with the Father and the Holy Spirit.

[Trax]

On another site I recently realized not every Christian believes Jesus to be God. Some claim He is the perfect representation of God, but not actually God. They say that even a child knows the father can not also be the son. They think the trinity concept is unreasonable. I proceeded to give many scriptures supporting my belief that Jesus is, in fact, God. I also gave OT and NT verses showing the concept of the trinity. I thought I'd bring up the question here to see what Scriptures can be used to prove (or disprove) Jesus as God, just in case I missed any.

So, I ask: Is Jesus God?

I read through this entire thread and saw valuable information left out. I was surprised at this. People who believe Jesus is God and people who

don't, have access to the SAME scriptures. So, what seems to be the issue as to why some believe and others don't? THAT is the missing information!

Jesus asked, "Who do people say I am" and "Who do you say I am." Like then, people had their own opinion, like today. Here is the key:

Mat 16:16 Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

Mat 16:17 And Jesus said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

Flesh and blood does NOT reveal who Jesus is. Flesh and blood is your brain, your ability to figure it out on your own. You can memorize ALL the scriptures

and still not know who Jesus is. It is revealed by God Himself. If you try to figure out Jesus with your own ability, you will be like a dog chasing his tail and

go round and round. The truth about Jesus comes directly from God, when He reveals truth, of the scriptures, to you. And that is also supported by:

Co 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord,"

except by the Holy Spirit.

You can not see the truth about Jesus unless you have the Holy Spirit. You look at all other beliefs and their view of Jesus and they agree on one thing, "Jesus isn't God."

They don't have the Holy Spirit also.

[mizzdy]

I have not read through any of this thread and I understand that you think trinity is a revelation given by God alone. Yes it is a truly gnostic idea in direct opposition

to the Jewish world view. And the first command YHWH gave us. Hear Oh Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One.

It may be cool to you. But to impose this idea on the true monotheists of the world is to not do YHWH any favors. The Jew, the Muslim and the Sikh.

The Shema states that YHWH is one theres no mistaking that yet we fail to also acknowledge that He presents Himself in many ways, even within as three. The first letters in the Hebrew show the Father, (head) has a house with a Son who goes out, (spirit) to the world, even within Judaism theres the concept of 'the unseen and seen YHWH'. No one is saying there are three 'separate' people but the ways in which He presents Himself to us. Regulation the Messiah to a mere man is false, taking away His deity leaves no recourse for salvation since we see it is Yah alone that saves and He did so by the Son He sent here in His place, part of Him who came to take the curse, the penaly of death from our heads.

Oneness isnt going to cut it here, and while I may think that the trinity is limiting to Him I would never attached it to gnostism and believe me I have studied that out in detail over the years. I will say that in some circles the trinity is taught as three persons coming from one entity but that is not what you will find here.

shalom,

Mizzdy

[OneLight]

I have not read through any of this thread and I understand that you think trinity is a revelation given by God alone. Yes it is a truly gnostic idea in direct opposition

to the Jewish world view. And the first command YHWH gave us. Hear Oh Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One.

It may be cool to you. But to impose this idea on the true monotheists of the world is to not do YHWH any favors. The Jew, the Muslim and the Sikh.

The Shema states that YHWH is one theres no mistaking that yet we fail to also acknowledge that He presents Himself in many ways, even within as three. The first letters in the Hebrew show the Father, (head) has a house with a Son who goes out, (spirit) to the world, even within Judaism theres the concept of 'the unseen and seen YHWH'. No one is saying there are three 'separate' people but the ways in which He presents Himself to us. Regulation the Messiah to a mere man is false, taking away His deity leaves no recourse for salvation since we see it is Yah alone that saves and He did so by the Son He sent here in His place, part of Him who came to take the curse, the penaly of death from our heads.

Oneness isnt going to cut it here, and while I may think that the trinity is limiting to Him I would never attached it to gnostism and believe me I have studied that out in detail over the years. I will say that in some circles the trinity is taught as three persons coming from one entity but that is not what you will find here.

shalom,

Mizzdy

The Shema was given in the midst of paganism. Mithras, Horus, golden calf et al. The first principle really meant fundamentally that the God/person is one.

Jesus cannot be God because Jesus spoke of his God as the one God. The same one of Abraham Isaac and Moses.

I have studied this for less than a year and believe my hypothesis holds true. Your experience means little to me, sorry. Trinitarians are like gophers.

They pop out of the ground everywhere you look. Big deal.

If Jesus is not God, through whom do you find salvation?

[OneLight]

I have not read through any of this thread and I understand that you think trinity is a revelation given by God alone. Yes it is a truly gnostic idea in direct opposition

to the Jewish world view. And the first command YHWH gave us. Hear Oh Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One.

It may be cool to you. But to impose this idea on the true monotheists of the world is to not do YHWH any favors. The Jew, the Muslim and the Sikh.

The Shema states that YHWH is one theres no mistaking that yet we fail to also acknowledge that He presents Himself in many ways, even within as three. The first letters in the Hebrew show the Father, (head) has a house with a Son who goes out, (spirit) to the world, even within Judaism theres the concept of 'the unseen and seen YHWH'. No one is saying there are three 'separate' people but the ways in which He presents Himself to us. Regulation the Messiah to a mere man is false, taking away His deity leaves no recourse for salvation since we see it is Yah alone that saves and He did so by the Son He sent here in His place, part of Him who came to take the curse, the penaly of death from our heads.

Oneness isnt going to cut it here, and while I may think that the trinity is limiting to Him I would never attached it to gnostism and believe me I have studied that out in detail over the years. I will say that in some circles the trinity is taught as three persons coming from one entity but that is not what you will find here.

shalom,

Mizzdy

The Shema was given in the midst of paganism. Mithras, Horus, golden calf et al. The first principle really meant fundamentally that the God/person is one.

Jesus cannot be God because Jesus spoke of his God as the one God. The same one of Abraham Isaac and Moses.

I have studied this for less than a year and believe my hypothesis holds true. Your experience means little to me, sorry. Trinitarians are like gophers.

They pop out of the ground everywhere you look. Big deal.

If Jesus is not God, through whom do you find salvation?

Ultimately YHWH, Jesus' God.

How is this accomplished?

[OneLight]

How is this accomplished?

Through his Son. Whom He the One true YHWH has sent. The Hebrew 'Shaliach' or agent of the first authority.

So, it appears that you believe that only the Father is God?

Jesus is just the Fathers Son?

Who do you say the Holy Spirit is?

[Guest shiloh357]

This is wacky to a 20 year Oneness Pentecostal. Whooo? Whooo? The Ruach Hakodesh only mentioned 3x in all of OT is the third person of the Trinity?

'Cmon now. Only the truly brainwashed believe this. Only mentioned three times as the Holy Spirit? Ignored wasn't he? If I was the Holy Spirit I would be offended.

He is metioned far more times than three in the Old Testament, LOL You need to read your Bible.

I am a deprogrammer. By proxy, since I believe in Shema.

The Shema is not an adequate passage to disprove trinitarianism. It speaks to God's being, not His Personage. God is one (singular) being, but He is not a singular Person.

[OneLight]

So, it appears that you believe that only the Father is God?

Yes.

Jesus is just the Fathers Son?

I like how you say that. 'Just?' Well, I guess that would be your perspective since you think Jesus is YHWH. I degraded him tremendously didn't I?

I see Jesus more then "just" the Son of the Father. He is the Messiah, Christ, Good Shepherd, King of kings, Lamb of God, Lord, Lord of lords, Prince of Peace, Redeemer, Savior, Son of Man ... just to name a few.

Who do you say the Holy Spirit is?

This is wacky to a 20 year Oneness Pentecostal. Whooo? Whooo? The Ruach Hakodesh only mentioned 3x in all of OT is the third person of the Trinity?

'Cmon now. Only the truly brainwashed believe this. Only mentioned three times as the Holy Spirit? Ignored wasn't he? If I was the Holy Spirit I would be offended.

I am a deprogrammer. By proxy, since I believe in Shema.

I highly you will be doing any deprogramming here, my friend.

Tell me, why do you believe others don't believe in the Shema? The Shema is derived from the very same scripture we all uphold as the word of God. What I see when reading this is God speaking to the children of Israel. The concept can be applied to us today, if taken spiritually, but not literal in many parts of it. The Shema states:

Deuteronomy 6:4-9

Hebrew

Sh'ma Yis'ra'eil Adonai Eloheinu Adonai echad.

Hear, Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One.

Barukh sheim k'vod malkhuto l'olam va'ed.

Blessed be the Name of His glorious kingdom for ever and ever.

V'ahav'ta eit Adonai Elohekha b'khol l'vav'kha uv'khol naf'sh'kha uv'khol m'odekha.

And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.

V'hayu had'varim ha'eileh asher anokhi m'tzav'kha hayom al l'vavekha.

And these words that I command you today shall be in your heart.

V'shinan'tam l'vanekha v'dibar'ta bam

And you shall teach them diligently to your children, and you shall speak of them

b'shiv't'kha b'veitekha uv'lekh't'kha vaderekh uv'shakh'b'kha uv'kumekha

when you sit at home, and when you walk along the way, and when you lie down and when you rise up.

Uk'shar'tam l'ot al yadekha v'hayu l'totafot bein einekha.

And you shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be for frontlets between your eyes.

Ukh'tav'tam al m'zuzot beitekha uvish'arekha.

And you shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.

Deuteronomy 11:13-21

V'hayah im shamo'a tish'm'u el mitz'votai

And it shall come to pass if you surely listen to the commandments

asher anokhi m'tzaveh et'khem hayom

that I command you today

l'ahavah et Adonai Eloheikhem ul'av'do b'khol l'vav'khem uv'khol naf'sh'khem

to love the Lord your God and to serve him with all your heart and all your soul,

V'natati m'tar ar'tz'khem b'ito yoreh umal'kosh

v'asaf'ta d'ganekha v'tirosh'kha v'yitz'harekha.

That I will give rain to your land, the early and the late rains,

that you may gather in your grain, your wine and your oil.

V'natati eisev b'sad'kha liv'hem'tekha v'akhal'ta v'sava'ta.

And I will give grass in your fields for your cattle and you will eat and you will be satisfied.

Hisham'ru lakhem pen yif'teh l'vav'khem

v'sar'tem va'avad'tem Elohim acheirim v'hish'tachavitem lahem

Beware, lest your heart be deceived

and you turn and serve other gods and worship them.

V'charah af Adonai bakhem v'atzar et hashamayim v'lo yih'yeh matar

v'ha'adamah lo titein et y'vulah

And anger of the Lord will blaze against you, and he will close the heavens and there will not be rain,

and the earth will not give you its fullness,

va'avad'tem m'heirah mei'al ha'aretz hatovah asher Adonai notein lakhem.

and you will perish quickly from the good land that the Lord gives you.

V'sam'tem et d'varai eileh al l'vav'khem v'al naf'sh'khem

uk'shar'tem otam l'ot al yed'khem v'hayu l'totafot bein eineikhem.

So you shall put these, my words, on your heart and on your soul;

and you shall bind them for signs on your hands, and they shall be for frontlets between your eyes.

V'limad'tem otam et b'neikhem l'dabeir bam

And you shall teach them to your children, and you shall speak of them

b'shiv't'kha b'veitekha uv'lekh't'kha vaderekh uv'shakh'b'kha uv'kumekha

when you sit at home, and when you walk along the way, and when you lie down and when you rise up.

Ukh'tav'tam al m'zuzot beitekha uvish'arekha.

And you shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.

L'ma'an yirbu y'maychem vi-y'may v'naychem al ha-adamah

asher nishba Adonai la-avotaychem latayt lahem ki-y'may ha-shamayim al ha-aretz.

In order to prolong your days and the days of your children on the land

that the Lord promised your fathers that he would give them, as long as the days that the heavens are over the earth.

Numbers 15:37-41

Vayo'mer Adonai el mosheh lei'mor

And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying...

Dabeir el b'nei Yis'ra'eil v'amar'ta aleihem

Speak to the children of Israel and say to them

v'asu lahem tzitzit al kan'fei vig'deihem l'dorotam

v'nat'nu al tzitzit hakanaf p'til t'kheilet

they should make themselves tzitzit (fringes) on the corners of their clothing throughout their generations,

and give the tzitzit of each corner a thread of blue.

V'hayah lakhem l'tzitzit ur'item oto uz'khar'tem et kol mitz'vot Adonai

va'asitem otam v'lo taturu acharei l'vav'khem v'acharei eineikhem

asher atem zonim achareihem

And they shall be tzitzit for you, and when you look at them you will remember all of the Lord's commandments

and do them and not follow after your heart and after your eyes

which lead you astray.

L'ma'an tiz'k'ru va'asitem et kol mitz'votai viyitem k'doshim lei'loheikhem

In order to remember and do all My commandments, and be holy for your God.

Ani Adonai Eloheikhem

asher hotzei'ti et'khem mei'eretz Mitz'rayim lih'yot lakhhem leilohim

Ani Adonai Eloheikhem

I am the Lord, your God

who lead you from the land of Egypt to be a God to you.

I am the Lord, your God.

So, what parts of this are you claiming people do not believe?

This is a picture of what I hold as true. It does not take away from the Father, the Son or the Holy Spirit in any way.

How do you explain 1 John 5:6-7?

This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth. For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

[Guest shiloh357]

I see you terp one = being. This is wrong. One = alone, unique, one (singular). 10 trillion Jews alive and dead agree with me. Or so.

That is not an accurate measure for determinng truth. God is one being and He is, alone God. Those are not mutually exclusive concepts. Both are true.

But to base your belief on who agrees with you is a flawed approach. If ten trillion people believe the earth is flat, that does not change the fact that the earth is a sphere. Truth is not determined by who believes or how many.

How can I prove it? I can't but when I brought up Dan Block's view you got mad.

I didn't say anything about Dan Block. You have me confused with someone else.

At any rate, Dan Block is not the last word on the issue. I doubt Dan Block, as a Baptist seminary professor would appreciate you using his work to prove your heresy that Jesus is not God. It is dishonest to use someone's work in a way they did not intend for it to be used.

[Guest shiloh357]

He is metioned far more times than three in the Old Testament, LOL You need to read your Bible.

Holy Spirit Wiki:

The term ruach hakodesh occurs once in Psalm 51:11 and also twice in the Book of Isaiah (Isaiah 63:10,11) Those are the only three times that the precise phrase "ruach hakodesh" is used in the Hebrew Scriptures, although the noun ruach (רוח, literally "breath" or "wind") in various combinations is used often, and the adjective kodesh ("holy") is also used often. The noun ruach, much like the English word breath, can mean either wind or some invisible moving force.

Sorry I know wiki is not always authoritative. But if it is wrong plz show me where.

Spirit of God and Holy Spirit are one and the same. The phrase "Holy Spirit" is used three times, but He is mentioned far more than three times, when you count how many times He is called "the Spirit of God." You are trying to draw a false dichotomy between those two phrases, but they are referring to the same Person, whether your "theology" can make room for it or not.

I am sorry, but we are not receiving what you teach. You are not the first Oneness to come on here and you won't be the last. This is same stuff we have had to deal with for years. You are no more convincing than anyone else.