ezekiel's (ch 40) man w/ the measuring rod as Jesus?

[drossfurnace]

hey im new here and it took me awhile to figure out how in the world to post. i found this place while googling questions about ezekiel 40-48 and it brought me to a soapbox discussion between a couple guys (shiloh and botz ((or something))... heh. and then after being challenged and agreeing with much of what was said, i attempted to reply and realized i couldnt (soapbox are one on one discussions).

So, well. I guess one could say that soapbox would be required reading before bothering with this little thread. or at least a working knowledge of the 3rd temple concept

Anyways, im not saying im doctor smartypants - im surely open to learning something new and im not at all convinced that im right (im relatively new to millenial reign/reconstructed temple theology). but im gonna jump right in on some stuff and maybe somebody wants to play with me

i guess, first, is the struggle with the identity of the "man with the measuring reed" from ezekiel 40. The boys in the soapbox debate seemed to agree upon the identity as Jesus, citing 43:6-7 as a primary proof (verse 7 talks about how this temple is spoken of by, according to them, Jesus (as the measuring man) referring to the temple as "MY throne" etc

the consensus between the two guys debating was that this measuring man is Jesus himself speaking to Ezekiel. I'm not so sure for a couple reasons:

1. the man with the measuring reed is introduced in chapter 40:3 - and he goes around measuring stuff to show ezekiel the instructions for the temple. he is described in verse 3 thusly: ((kjv))

40:3. And he brought me thither, and, behold, there was a man, whose appearance was like the appearance of brass, with a line of flax in his hand, and a measuring reed; and he stood in the gate.

and this guy says one line to ezekiel about how ezekiel's been brought to him so that this man can show ezekiel the measurements of the temple. verse 2 + 3 show that the Lord brought Ezekiel to this man. and verse 4 confirms it "...for you have been brought here..." etc. Sooo, are we to understand that God brought Ezekiel in the spirit unto Jesus , and that even though Ezekiel recognized the "hand upon him" as God, he failed to recognize that the measuring man in front of him was the Lord Himself ?

in verse 40:45, 46, this measuring man also makes a distinction between himself and the Lord - "45And he said unto me, This chamber, whose prospect is toward the south, is for the priests, the keepers of the charge of the house.

46And the chamber whose prospect is toward the north is for the priests, the keepers of the charge of the altar: these are the sons of Zadok among the sons of Levi, which come near to the LORD to minister unto him.

the measuring man is speaking about the LORD in the 3rd person. the only way the measuring man can be Jesus is if the LORD he speaks of here is the Father. But will the Father Himself inhabit the temple???????? i guess its possible, as Jesus is the high priest ministering before the father behind the veil in the spiritual Holy of Holies (therefore the presence of the Father was certainly in the temple). But i guess my question is WHY are there levitical priests ministering sacrifices and offerings to the Father if Jesus is already in the Holy of Holies before the Father? anyway.... thats slightly off topic.

furthermore : in chapter 43 we have Ezekiel beholding the vision of the glory of the God of Israel. Like how he saw by the river Chebar - which means, apparently, in His chariot with the four cherubim with the four faces each and the whirling wheels, etc etc. Verse 2 says that this being's (God's) voice was like the sound of "many waters," yet in verse 6, it is perhaps clearly shown that this being is the one speaking to Ezekiel and NOT the measuring reed man.

43:5,6 - So the spirit took me up, and brought me into the inner court; and, behold, the glory of the LORD filled the house.

6And I heard him speaking unto me out of the house; and the man stood by me.

The glory of the LORD was in the house, and verse 6 says something was speaking to him from INSIDE the house. Well, since ezekiel was only standing at the gate (verse 1) , with the measuring reed man standing next to him at the gate (verse 6) , then it makes sense that the measuring man and the voice of the Lord are two different entities. Again, who is this riding on the chariot of God ? is it the Father? in my opinion, YES.

The vision of divine glory, or the "chariot of God" from chapter 1 speaks about the 4 cherubim with four faces each, with the wings and the wheels and all that. above them, in verse 22, is the awesome expanse/sea of crystal/ice etc etc, and the One sitting on the throne in this expanse has an appearance somewhat like a rainbow etc. All of this is described in Revelation 4... the appearance of a rainbow around the throne (rev 4:3), the sea of glass/ice/crystal (4:6), the four living creatures each with a different face (4:7)... ((((((its worth here to note that its possible these are maybe not the exact same creatures from Ezekiel. No mention is made of them having four faces EACH in Revelation, and no mention is made in Ezekiel of them being covered with eyes, NOR is there any mention in revelation about the "whirring wheels." yet the throne and expanse rainbow and One who sits upon it, in both cases, is unmistakable. Maybe the Father doesn't live in His car... heh heh )))))))

But, regardless, chapter 5 of revelation reveals to us that this One on the throne is differrent from the Lamb - in verse 5:1 the One on the throne has the book, and in verse 5:7 the Lamb comes and takes the book out of His hand. Of course the Lamb is Christ. the two are different.

So my argument is that, perhaps, we cannot simply assume that since the LORD was present back in Ezekiel, that it necessarily means that this measuring reed man is Jesus Himself. the distinction appears to be that the Father was indeed there in some form back in Ezekiel. We cant assume that because a man has a glorious appearance and a measuring rod, that he is Jesus. Afterall, John himself was given a measuring rod in rev 11:1, and then later was brought before what seems to be an angel of high rank in rev 21:15 who also had a measuring rod. This angel continues to be with John and talk to him all the way through chapter 21 and into revelation 22. It appears that in rev 22:16 Jesus Himself is making a distinction between this angel with the measuring rod and Himself... "26 I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give youthis testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

Therefore, in conclusion, i am looking for someone who would like to explain a little further on why the measuring rod man from ezekiel 40 must be Jesus Himself? And maybe its a bit of a trivial matter, but i'd like to distinguish between the Father and Son and angels as much as possible. anyway, it was something that struck me when i was reading that soapbox discussion and i'd imagine if i had access to speak to them, they'd be more than willing to reply and we could work together towards a better understand of the subject at hand...

then perhaps if theres any takers, we can move on to the prince in the reconstructed temple and the topic of reinstated sin offerings? like i said, i wish i had access to THAT thread as they're already talking about this stuff, but this is the best i can do...

[wyguy]

Anyways, im not saying im doctor smartypants

I like this guy already!

[~candice~]

Anyways, im not saying im doctor smartypants

I like this guy already!

Ahh there is only one wyseguy in worthy

[wyguy]

I see that "se!"

[enoob57]

and this guy says one line to ezekiel about how ezekiel's been brought to him so that this man can show ezekiel the measurements of the temple. verse 2 + 3 show that the Lord brought Ezekiel to this man. and verse 4 confirms it "...for you have been brought here..." etc. Sooo, are we to understand that God brought Ezekiel in the spirit unto Jesus , and that even though Ezekiel recognized the "hand upon him" as God, he failed to recognize that the measuring man in front of him was the Lord Himself ?

Well we do have this Scripture where it was hidden from there sight-

Luke 24:30-32

30 Now it came to pass, as He sat at the table with them, that He took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to them. 31 Then their eyes were opened and they knew Him; and He vanished from their sight.

32 And they said to one another, "Did not our heart burn within us while He talked with us on the road, and while He opened the Scriptures to us?"

NKJV

Therefore, in conclusion, i am looking for someone who would like to explain a little further on why the measuring rod man from ezekiel 40 must be Jesus Himself? And maybe its a bit of a trivial matter, but i'd like to distinguish between the Father and Son and angels as much as possible. anyway, it was something that struck me when i was reading that soapbox discussion and i'd imagine if i had access to speak to them, they'd be more than willing to reply and we could work together towards a better understand of the subject at hand...

It is God who measured out the world we are in now!

Job 38:1-5

38 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said:

2 "Who is this who darkens counsel

By words without knowledge?

3 Now prepare yourself like a man;

I will question you, and you shall answer Me.

4 "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?

Tell Me, if you have understanding.

5 Who determined its measurements?

Surely you know!

NKJV

It was God who gave Moses the measurements of Temple in Exodus

Ex 26:2-3

2 The length of each curtain shall be twenty-eight cubits, and the width of each curtain four cubits. And every one of the curtains shall have the same measurements.

NKJV

He decides the measure unto His own

Ps 60:6-7

6 God has spoken in His holiness:

"I will rejoice;

I will divide Shechem

And measure out the Valley of Succoth.

7 Gilead is Mine, and Manasseh is Mine;

Ephraim also is the helmet for My head;

Judah is My lawgiver.

NKJV

Num 35:4-5

4 The common-land of the cities which you will give the Levites shall extend from the wall of the city outward a thousand cubits all around. 5 And you shall measure outside the city on the east side two thousand cubits, on the south side two thousand cubits, on the west side two thousand cubits, and on the north side two thousand cubits. The city shall be in the middle. This shall belong to them as common-land for the cities.

NKJV

Has not the carpenters Son gone away to prepare us a Place? No one measures up to The Son of God Love Steven

[Guest]

Welcome!

[Fez]

Welcome.....

[EricH]

Welcome to Worthy!!

[drossfurnace]

It is God who measured out the world we are in now!

Job 38:1-5

38 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said:

2 "Who is this who darkens counsel

By words without knowledge?

3 Now prepare yourself like a man;

I will question you, and you shall answer Me.

4 "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?

Tell Me, if you have understanding.

5 Who determined its measurements?

Surely you know!

NKJV

thats cool, man. im glad you took the time to try and answer the questoin. im not gonna say i agree with you completely, as i think (to me) that the Glory of the Lord that appeared to Ezekiel seems to have been the Father and maybe *NOT* the Son and therefore all these other quotes you're speaking of could also be from the mouth of the Father and not necessarily the Son. in my original post i made an argument that the description of the Glory of the Lord in Ezekiel is an awful lot like what seems obvious to me in Rev 4 a description of the Father.....

I also understand that sometimes the line kindof blurs between the two, as they are distinct YET together - but like i also quoted previously there's a powerful angel in Revelation who also has a measuring rod.... Now, of course God gives the orders for things to be measured but that doesn't mean the man with the measuring tool was necessarily Jesus Himself....

anyways, God bless and thx for the input

[Bubba4J]

Welcome