what is "Moses and the Prophets"

[QuaestorRexRegis]

Jesus used this phrase in His story about the rich man and Lazarus - not only what does it mean (too simple to just say O.T. writings), but how would that have warned them of Hades?  Don't be too easy now, please add some thought and study.

[Adstar]

QuaestorRexRegis

Hello Regis you are really throwing them at us

Ok you are still vague in your questions but I will have a go at explaining the passage.

LUKE 16:19-31

19 "There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell[4] from the rich man's table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24"Then he cried and said, "Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' 25But Abraham said, "Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.'

27"Then he said, "I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.' 29Abraham said to him, "They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.' 30And he said, "No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.' 31But he said to him, "If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead."'

You asked

"Jesus used this phrase in His story about the rich man and Lazarus - not only what does it mean (too simple to just say O.T. writings), but how would that have warned them of Hades? "

It was a Parable regis The brothers would not heed the scriptures. If they did then they would go out and help the poor like Lazarus. The Messiah was saying that those who do not care to follow the word will receive no help from The Ancient Of Days.

There are some who do not care to read the word (Bible) or if they do they will not follow the teachings therein. They want a personal audience with the Ancient Of Days before they will follow the teachings of the Messiah. The Ancient Of Days helps those who help themselves.

Read this passage

Matthew7:7-12

7 "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 9Or what man is there among you who, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent? 11If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask Him! 12Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

The point of this passage is that you must. Ask, Seek, and knock. before it will be opened to you.

How do we Ask, Seek and Knock? Simple we must pray to the Ancient of Days for understanding we must read the Guidance Given to us by the Messiah. If we do this with the right attitude, humbling ourselves to follow and do what the Messiah told us to do then The Ancient of Days through the Spirit will Guide us through dreams, our cousiounce and our brothers in faith.

Hope I have helped you QuaestorRexRegis By asking questions you are doing what the Messiah said to do, Continue on reading asking and praying and repeat it again and again and again unto death do you part.

May the Spirit open our eyes to the Truth.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[QuaestorRexRegis]

Thank you, Adstar.

I am asking a lot of loaded questions because I have found this site to be an outlet for my thoughts...

I have answers to all my questions, but I would be a fool to think that my answers are complete or even correct - - I need to hear from others.

Your answer here was very good.  Thank you.

[tsth]

It is about obedience to the "Word of God" sent to "you", in the form of a man.  It is about willingly receiving "Truth".

In His Love,

Suzanne

[QuaestorRexRegis]

I think that answers the question, but welcome to my maze - was not Moses one of the prophets?  Ah, but maybe he meant the Law (Moses being the giver of the Law) - would that have been the answer to the rich man's brothers?  They have the Law and the Prophets?  Was Abraham telling that to have someone raise from the dead would not be sufficient because they need to obey the Law and the Prophets?  That did not give anyone much hope that was not of Israel, did it?

Despite all that...does that perhaps tell the unsaved that even if someone was raised from the dead (Jesus) - they will not believe unless they follow after the Law and the Prophets, first - in a more N.T. way  :blush: ooooo - what am I asking now...

Must we first obey the Law of God before we can be saved?  (I hope you know I don't believe that, but find your way through that "logic") - answer deeper - "What is Moses and the Prophets" to warn of Hades...

[tsth]

I would like to add to your maze with these verses.

Matthew 13:52 Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things things new and old.

OT and NT?

Luke 16:16  The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it.

(pressing/forcing)

16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail.

16:18 Whoever divorces his wife and marries another

commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced from her husband commits adultery.

Sin is still sin/OT or NT.  The difference is the "POWER" to overcome, through Jesus Christ.  We cannot force our way in.  We will continue in darkness, if we refuse those sent to us giving Truth.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[QuaestorRexRegis]

if we refuse those sent to us giving Truth.

oooooooo - I like your strain of thought, Suz - can you elaborate?

[tsth]

Quote  

if we refuse those sent to us giving Truth.

oooooooo - I like your strain of thought, Suz - can you elaborate?

Yes, I believe it has always been about "love" and "obedience", both of them.  And God has always mercifully sent those to tell us the Truth about love and obedience.  

John 1:17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

I hope I can convey this correctly.  It is the very same teaching as The Parable of the Tenants.  Matthew 21:33

God has not changed, He has continually sent those to tell us the Truth about obedience to His Word or Him.  And when we wouldn't listen, He sent His Son, but for some reason, people have dismissed the idea of obedience to His commandments, (10), we no longer believe they are relevent.  That somehow, something has changed.  It has not, the only things that changed, were the messengers through Whom He spoke.  The ultimate Being His Son.

Did you happen to notice the teaching right before this particular parable?  It is about 2 sons, one gave lip service, and one "actually" did what his Father asked of him .

But more importantly this part.  Matthew 21:32  For John came to you in the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him; but tax collectors and harlots believed him; and when you saw it, you did not afterward relent and believe him.

To add to your original question about Abraham and Lazarus, I would also think these verses are helpful.

John 5:43

I have come in My Father's name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive.  

5:44

How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God?  

5:45

Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you--Moses, in whom you trust.  

5:46

For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me.  

5:47

But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"  

And what writings were those?  So, now are we back to the beginning?  

I believe so, and I also believe your original understanding QRR.

Luke 1:6 -

And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Lu 18:20 -

You know the commandments: 'Do not commit adultery,' 'Do not murder,' 'Do not steal,' 'Do not bear false witness,' 'Honor your father and your mother.' "

Joh 14:15 -

"If you love Me, keep My commandments.

Joh 14:21 -

He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."

Joh 15:10 -

If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

Ac 1:2 -

until the day in which He was taken up, after He through the Holy Spirit had given commandments to the apostles whom He had chosen,

Ro 13:9 -

For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not bear false witness," "You shall not covet," and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

In His Love,

Suzanne

[QuaestorRexRegis]

Wowie Zowie, little Frieda!

Suz - that was terrific - you have opened a floodgate of thinking about the circumstances presented in that parable.

I always have considered this not to be a parable, but instead a "prophetic" utterance of what actually occurred to Jesus' friend, Lazarus.  I would continue, but that's off the subject - instead, we see that even when someone was raised from the dead (namely Lazarus) there were those who refused to believe but told their story to the Pharisees.

Now, I am viewing Moses and the Prophets to be us.  I used to think it only Jesus as Messiah (Acts 3:22).  Clearly, Jesus through us is still the Messiah come to the world.

[tsth]

Now, I am viewing Moses and the Prophets to be us.  I used to think it only Jesus as Messiah (Acts 3:22).  Clearly, Jesus through us is still the Messiah come to the world.

Maybe these verses will have a more powerful meaning to you.

1 John 4:2, 4:3, 2 John 1:7

2 Tim. 1:8 -

Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;

Eph. 3:7 -

Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Eph 3:20 -

Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

Eph 6:10 -

Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

In His Love,

Suzanne