Losing Salvation vs Inheritance

[Fez]

I have been involved with a lot of discussion on OSAS on the boards recently. Mainly about can a person actually lose their salvation? I have looked at it from all sides and now here are a few of my thoughts on the subject stemming from what I have read and researched. Only my opinion obviously, but my opinion nonetheless...

The question should never be OSAS? That to me is becoming a dumb question to ask (excuse the straight forwardness). The real question that one should ask of ourselves is: are we certain of our salvation?

Many of the scriptures quoted in relation to OSAS are used out of context and are often not speaking of salvation but rather inheritance. I am not going to start quoting all the chunks of scripture over again to support this stance, they are on other posts ad nauseum.

Why do I say this?

If we look at the cross, Jesus has offered forgiveness to everyone and paid the price for every sin (even the one of backsliding). Jesus said that it was finished when He hung on the cross. He did not say

[Guest shiloh357]

So a lot of the OSAS stuff has become a waste of time for me.

The reason it is a waste of time is because it doesn't exist. There is no such doctrine as OSAS.

OSAS is a label, not a doctrine. Eternal Security is often mislabeled with OSAS. It is painted as teaching that once you are saved, you can sin all you want because salvation is unconditional and that once a person is unconditionally secure they are free to sin galore with reckless abandon.

For this reason it is painted as an impediment to holiness and a license to sin and so on and so forth.

The way I look at it is that I am either saved or I am not. I can lose my inheritance or part of it, but not my salvation.

The problem is that your inheritance is guaranteed by the Holy Spirit. The Bible never refers to Christians as being disinherited.

We can lose our reward for sure, but that is different than our inheritance. Your inheritance is based on the fact that you are joint-heir with Jesus. Your inheritance is directly linked to Christ's work on the cross. Your inheritance was bought and paid for by Jesus and you are sealed with the Holy Spirit who is the guarantor (earnest) of your inheritance (Eph. 1:13-14). The reason we know we are secure is the internal witness of the Holy Spirit. (Romans 8:16-17) The Holy Spirit is the internal witness that we are the children of God and if children, heirs.

Our inheritance is based on our relationship with God in that we are His children. To be disinherited would sever that relationship and that would cut us off from salvation.

As previously indicated, our works, our obedience determine our reward for service, but have no effect on salvation in terms of securing our eternal destiny.

[Fez]

So a lot of the OSAS stuff has become a waste of time for me.

The reason it is a waste of time is because it doesn't exist. There is no such doctrine as OSAS.

OSAS is a label, not a doctrine. Eternal Security is often mislabeled with OSAS. It is painted as teaching that once you are saved, you can sin all you want because salvation is unconditional and that once a person is unconditionally secure they are free to sin galore with reckless abandon.

For this reason it is painted as an impediment to holiness and a license to sin and so on and so forth.

The way I look at it is that I am either saved or I am not. I can lose my inheritance or part of it, but not my salvation.

The problem is that your inheritance is guaranteed by the Holy Spirit. The Bible never refers to Christians as being disinherited.

We can lose our reward for sure, but that is different than our inheritance. Your inheritance is based on the fact that you are joint-heir with Jesus. Your inheritance is directly linked to Christ's work on the cross. Your inheritance was bought and paid for by Jesus and you are sealed with the Holy Spirit who is the guarantor (earnest) of your inheritance (Eph. 1:13-14). The reason we know we are secure is the internal witness of the Holy Spirit. (Romans 8:16-17) The Holy Spirit is the internal witness that we are the children of God and if children, heirs.

Our inheritance is based on our relationship with God in that we are His children. To be disinherited would sever that relationship and that would cut us off from salvation.

As previously indicated, our works, our obedience determine our reward for service, but have no effect on salvation in terms of securing our eternal destiny.

Our inheritance is based on our relationship with God in that we are His children. To be disinherited would sever that relationship and that would cut us off from salvation

Ok, then can you explain this scripture to me?

Num 14:11 And the LORD said to Moses, "How long will this people despise me? And how long will they not believe in me, in spite of all the signs that I have done among them?

Num 14:12 I will strike them with the pestilence and disinherit them, and I will make of you a nation greater and mightier than they."

God pardons them but still disinherits them? Or are you refering to Christians saved under Christ's grace only?

[Guest shiloh357]

Ok, then can you explain this scripture to me?

Num 14:11 And the LORD said to Moses, "How long will this people despise me? And how long will they not believe in me, in spite of all the signs that I have done among them?

Num 14:12 I will strike them with the pestilence and disinherit them, and I will make of you a nation greater and mightier than they."

God pardons them but still disinherits them? Or are you refering to Christians saved under Christ's grace only?

For one thing, this is not a doctrinal passage. There is no basis for taking this passage to be establishing eternal truths for all people for all time.

Secondly, this is talking about Israel as a nation. We cannot apply what is meant for the nation of Israel to ourselves for the purpose of individual, personal application.

Thirdly, God was testing Moses, as a leader. The promises God had made up that point, precluded any disinheritance. For one thing, how could God have made a nation out of Moses? How could the Messiah have come seeing that Moses is from the tribe of Levi and the Messiah MUST come from Judah? God's integrity would have prevented any genuine attempt at disinheritance of them.

The point is that your premise is based on a misapplication of this passage. This passage should not be used to address our eternal inheritance in Christ. Numbers 14:11,12 applies to a different issue altogether.

[Fez]

Ok, then can you explain this scripture to me?

Num 14:11 And the LORD said to Moses, "How long will this people despise me? And how long will they not believe in me, in spite of all the signs that I have done among them?

Num 14:12 I will strike them with the pestilence and disinherit them, and I will make of you a nation greater and mightier than they."

God pardons them but still disinherits them? Or are you refering to Christians saved under Christ's grace only?

For one thing, this is not a doctrinal passage. There is no basis for taking this passage to be establishing eternal truths for all people for all time.

Secondly, this is talking about Israel as a nation. We cannot apply what is meant for the nation of Israel to ourselves for the purpose of individual, personal application.

Thirdly, God was testing Moses, as a leader. The promises God had made up that point, precluded any disinheritance. For one thing, how could God have made a nation out of Moses? How could the Messiah have come seeing that Moses is from the tribe of Levi and the Messiah MUST come from Judah? God's integrity would have prevented any genuine attempt at disinheritance of them.

The point is that your premise is based on a misapplication of this passage. This passage should not be used to address our eternal inheritance in Christ. Numbers 14:11,12 applies to a different issue altogether.

Numbers 14:11,12 applies to a different issue altogether.

Well we are going to have to agree to disagree then, because I believe it does.

We cannot apply what is meant for the nation of Israel to ourselves for the purpose of individual, personal application.

Oh, but we can do it elsewhere?

Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out, instructing them, "Go nowhere among the Gentiles and enter no town of the Samaritans,

Mat 10:6 but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Mat 10:7 And proclaim as you go, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'

And I would say that this verse has a very personal application, ansd is used as such often..

Rom 11:5 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.

Rom 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

Rom 11:7 What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened,

Rom 11:8 as it is written, "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that would not see and ears that would not hear, down to this very day."

Examples using Israel are used in every church, often, to illustrate personal "applications", so again I disagree with you.

[Guest]

.... The problem is that your inheritance is guaranteed by the Holy Spirit. The Bible never refers to Christians as being disinherited.

We can lose our reward for sure, but that is different than our inheritance. Your inheritance is based on the fact that you are joint-heir with Jesus. Your inheritance is directly linked to Christ's work on the cross. Your inheritance was bought and paid for by Jesus and you are sealed with the Holy Spirit who is the guarantor (earnest) of your inheritance (Eph. 1:13-14). The reason we know we are secure is the internal witness of the Holy Spirit. (Romans 8:16-17) The Holy Spirit is the internal witness that we are the children of God and if children, heirs.

Our inheritance is based on our relationship with God in that we are His children. To be disinherited would sever that relationship and that would cut us off from salvation.

As previously indicated, our works, our obedience determine our reward for service, but have no effect on salvation in terms of securing our eternal destiny. ....

Ok, then can you explain this scripture to me?

Num 14:11 And the LORD said to Moses, "How long will this people despise me? And how long will they not believe in me, in spite of all the signs that I have done among them?

Num 14:12 I will strike them with the pestilence and disinherit them, and I will make of you a nation greater and mightier than they."

God pardons them but still disinherits them? Or are you referring to Christians saved under Christ's grace only?

And Continuing On.....

And Moses said unto the LORD, Then the Egyptians shall hear it, (for thou broughtest up this people in thy might from among them;)

And they will tell it to the inhabitants of this land: for they have heard that thou LORD art among this people, that thou LORD art seen face to face, and that thy cloud standeth over them, and that thou goest before them, by day time in a pillar of a cloud, and in a pillar of fire by night.

Now if thou shalt kill all this people as one man, then the nations which have heard the fame of thee will speak, saying,

Because the LORD was not able to bring this people into the land which he sware unto them, therefore he hath slain them in the wilderness.

And now, I beseech thee, let the power of my Lord be great, according as thou hast spoken, saying,

The LORD is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.

Pardon, I beseech thee, the iniquity of this people according unto the greatness of thy mercy, and as thou hast forgiven this people, from Egypt even until now.

Numbers 14:13-19

We Are Once Again Brought Face To Face With God's Amazing Grace

And the LORD said, I have pardoned according to thy word:

But as truly as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the LORD.

Numbers 14:20-21

And I Have Not A Single Drop Of Doubt

(Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth.)

Numbers 12:3

Brother Moses Would Agree

So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

Luke 17:10

>>>>>()<<<<<

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

Behold, the Lord GOD will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.

Isaiah 40:10

Be Very Blessed

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

1 Corinthians 2:9

Love, Your Brother Joe

[nebula]

Maybe we should clarify something.

When you see the word inheritance (that's a link to verses), what do you think of?

What is our inheritance?

[winsomebulldog]

So a lot of the OSAS stuff has become a waste of time for me.

The reason it is a waste of time is because it doesn't exist. There is no such doctrine as OSAS.

OSAS is a label, not a doctrine. Eternal Security is often mislabeled with OSAS. It is painted as teaching that once you are saved, you can sin all you want because salvation is unconditional and that once a person is unconditionally secure they are free to sin galore with reckless abandon.

For this reason it is painted as an impediment to holiness and a license to sin and so on and so forth.

I have never, ever heard anyone say that OSAS gives us a license to sin with reckless abandon. On the contrary, I have always been taught the exact opposite. Just because our salvation is eternal, does not mean we are free to ignore God and His instruction!

I don't think this is what you were saying here, but I just wanted to clarify in case someone else does!

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE

Numbers 14:11,12 applies to a different issue altogether.

Well we are going to have to agree to disagree then, because I believe it does.

The nation of Israel's inheritance was/is tied to this world. It pertains to land and a physical inheritance here on earth and is limited to this age. The Christian's inheritance is eternal and is not of this world. It is ours by virtue of our faith in Christ. Israel's inheritance was conditional upon continued national obedience. I would argue that that they are completely different and absolutely dissimilar. The differences are rather glaring.

QUOTE

We cannot apply what is meant for the nation of Israel to ourselves for the purpose of individual, personal application.

Oh, but we can do it elsewhere?

No, we cannot do it elsewhere.

Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out, instructing them, "Go nowhere among the Gentiles and enter no town of the Samaritans,

Mat 10:6 but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Mat 10:7 And proclaim as you go, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'

I fail to see the relevance of this passage.

And I would say that this verse has a very personal application, ansd is used as such often..

Rom 11:5 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.

Rom 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

Rom 11:7 What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened,

Rom 11:8 as it is written, "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that would not see and ears that would not hear, down to this very day."

Again, I fail to see the relevance. This has nothing to do with the issue and is not an example of taking what belongs to the nation of Israel and applying to individual people.

Examples using Israel are used in every church, often, to illustrate personal "applications", so again I disagree with you.

Just because they are used in "every church" (I guess you have been to "every church" to confirm that assumption?) does not mean it is a correct method of theology.

The problem with these types of "applications" is that people are often rather selective about stuff like that.

[Guest shiloh357]

So a lot of the OSAS stuff has become a waste of time for me.

The reason it is a waste of time is because it doesn't exist. There is no such doctrine as OSAS.

OSAS is a label, not a doctrine. Eternal Security is often mislabeled with OSAS. It is painted as teaching that once you are saved, you can sin all you want because salvation is unconditional and that once a person is unconditionally secure they are free to sin galore with reckless abandon.

For this reason it is painted as an impediment to holiness and a license to sin and so on and so forth.

I have never, ever heard anyone say that OSAS gives us a license to sin with reckless abandon.

Give it some time. Those folks will be posting on this thread before long. You'll see what I mean.