Is suicide an "unforgivable" sin

June 22, 2010

Now since this is a thread, a discussion board, and I am replying 16 pages in, and seeing that I have not really said anything really new,

Then why say anything at all?

I am saying that it may be possible to be forgiven it.

It may be possible, but you really don't know.

However, how about this, if what I said is true, and someone who's loved one has killed themselves, perhaps it will give them hope. . .

That's a pretty big "if", because you yourself said that you really don't know.

No I don't know. I never stated what I said was fact.

I hate these suicide threads. There's no edification to these things whatsoever. I don't even know why they're allowed here.

June 23, 2010

Now since this is a thread, a discussion board, and I am replying 16 pages in, and seeing that I have not really said anything really new,
Then why say anything at all?

I am saying that it may be possible to be forgiven it.
It may be possible, but you really don't know.

However, how about this, if what I said is true, and someone who's loved one has killed themselves, perhaps it will give them hope. . .
That's a pretty big "if", because you yourself said that you really don't know.

No I don't know. I never stated what I said was fact.

I hate these suicide threads. There's no edification to these things whatsoever. I don't even know why they're allowed here.

The biggest problem is that nothing will ever be resolved because it all depends on your doctrinal beliefs. Some believe you will wind up in hell and some don't, and in reality, only God knows for sure, and those that did commit suicide. I wouldn't chance it.

I totally agree.

What people don't understand is, with the internet and anonymity of individuals on these sites, they could be giving advice to a member of their own family and not know it until it was too late.

nebula · June 23, 2010

I am in agreement with man on this.

When it comes to a question like this, we should be less interested in mulling theology and more interesting in ministering healing to the person seeking such a question.

PartnerInChrist · June 23, 2010

No I don't know. I never stated what I said was fact.

I was stating though that if we die while sinning in any way shape or form that does not mean a one way ticket to hell.
If you think that we should not tell the truth to save a life, I guess that is okay right?
I have talked people of out suicide before. I have a friend in my Church that did commit suicide. This has effected me. I just do not sugarcoat truth. If you think that I would tell someone, who is suicidal that it was okay, then you are wrong. I am saying that it may be possible to be forgiven it.

Now since this is a thread, a discussion board, and I am replying 16 pages in, and seeing that I have not really said anything really new, then I am not going to be the cause of some one else's death. Matter of fact, when I went through my dark day, and I read this thread, I was considering giving up and killing myself. I realized that its most likely not a one way ticket to hell, that actually brought me hope, I realized how selfish I was being, and how much, it was better for me to enter heaven at the right time, in His time, but not in my time. Truth does set people free

However, how about this, if what I said is true, and someone who's loved one has killed themselves, perhaps it will give them hope. . .

PartnerInChrist · June 23, 2010

You say you dont know for a fact yet then you say should we withold the truth. Isn't truth a fact? Someone who just happens to freakishly die while there having a fight is way different than one who decides his own fate!

That's a gamble I don't wish anyone to take. Our overall walk should be progressing in Him., not getting further from Him! Paul said he llearned to be content in all things, whether in plenty or in want. Our circumstances are not to dictate our actions but our relationship with Him should.

I have sympathy for those who want to commit suicide, I myself have been tempted before, yet comparing our sin to one who commits suicide I believe is like comparing apples to onions. Though thee outward man is perishing(not because of suicide) the inward man is being renewed day by day.

Yeah come to Jesus where you don't have to change, just accept his grace and then pop yourself so you can get to heaven faster. I'm not trying to be sarcastic at all but that's bascically what it sounds like. At some point the Lord draws the line, and most of us here don't know exactly when that may be. But you better believe there's a line. Once your saved your name is written in the Lamb's book of Life, yet He warns a church in Rev. to shape up or He'll blot your name out of the Lamb's book of Life. THERE IS A LINE

Isaiah 6:8 · June 24, 2010

You say you dont know for a fact yet then you say should we withold the truth. Isn't truth a fact? Someone who just happens to freakishly die while there having a fight is way different than one who decides his own fate!
That's a gamble I don't wish anyone to take. Our overall walk should be progressing in Him., not getting further from Him! Paul said he llearned to be content in all things, whether in plenty or in want. Our circumstances are not to dictate our actions but our relationship with Him should.
I have sympathy for those who want to commit suicide, I myself have been tempted before, yet comparing our sin to one who commits suicide I believe is like comparing apples to onions. Though thee outward man is perishing(not because of suicide) the inward man is being renewed day by day.
Yeah come to Jesus where you don't have to change, just accept his grace and then pop yourself so you can get to heaven faster. I'm not trying to be sarcastic at all but that's bascically what it sounds like. At some point the Lord draws the line, and most of us here don't know exactly when that may be. But you better believe there's a line. Once your saved your name is written in the Lamb's book of Life, yet He warns a church in Rev. to shape up or He'll blot your name out of the Lamb's book of Life. THERE IS A LINE

First, Go read my first reply to you. You may have missed it. Here is a link. http://www.worthychristianforums.com/suici...44#entry1570644

I only posted on this topic because of your reply, you seem to have accidentally, misquoted, and then took scripture out of context. I also perceived your reply as harsh and judgmental. I was trying to respond gently, as since your new I could not pm you.

Now I did seemingly make the mistake of posting my position on the subject, in discussion. This is a discussion thread. I believe its good to discuss things. Should we simply make this a theological discussion and forget the people who are hurting, no. I even, opened up my life and posted my testimony on this subject, in two of my posts. This has been ignored by and in large. It seems my motive was misjudged as well. I am not "Green Lighting" anything. I answered a direct question posted. My heart was/is to provide hope for those that have lost loved ones to this horrible sin.

As I said...

it is a horrible thing, and devastates more then just the person who does it. If you are feeling these thoughts, then get help, and prayer and support.

When I say that I believe that suicide is forgivable, I am not giving a green light. Murder is a forgivable sin. But NO I am not saying you should go kill some one. Sin is sin, we in theory should never sin, ever. Lets see what Paul has to say...

Romans 5:18-21

18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6
Dead to Sin, Alive to God

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Now you were very sarcastic. This is unwise in a print form, as sarcasm has a lot to due with tone of voice, something not relayed here. Remember my main point was to give hope to those who may have lost someone, while answering a the question that started this thread. This last post you also came across as judgmental, as you know how God will judge us. Again go back and read the post on what righteous Judgement is. You even went so far, as to bold and capitalize that there is a line. Shouting as it were to prove a point. This is no way to win arguments or friends.

Now an example of a proper way to discuss and debate was shown by Butero. I Like how he has stated his view. We have both butted heads before but came out as friends, and better men because of it.

The biggest problem is that nothing will ever be resolved because it all depends on your doctrinal beliefs. Some believe you will wind up in hell and some don't, and in reality, only God knows for sure, and those that did commit suicide. I wouldn't chance it.

I agree with his statement. As for our doctrinal opinion, I agree to disagree, and I believe we are both okay with that.

As for my overall thoughts, I would not chance it. but I do not believe

-Isaiah-

PartnerInChrist · June 24, 2010

Your making me out to be the bad guy simply because this is a serious issue and I'm emphatically stating my position. Don't look at the sarcasm look at the point I'm trying to make. I don't believe hope trumps truth and we don't need to twist the gospel to give out false hope to everyone who commits suicide just because they went to church at some point in their life or were nice people. Maybe just maybe, we'd have less suicides if every minister at a funeral of one who committed suicide would warn of hell instead of saying "there in a better place now", I don't know just maybe. If I was a Pastor it would be a very hard thing to do, but I would'nt want our Pastor's compromising the truth just to offer some "hope."

Yes I guess we will have to agree to disagree, but can we still be friends?

Isaiah 6:8 · June 25, 2010

Your making me out to be the bad guy simply because this is a serious issue and I'm emphatically stating my position. Don't look at the sarcasm look at the point I'm trying to make. I don't believe hope trumps truth and we don't need to twist the gospel to give out false hope to everyone who commits suicide just because they went to church at some point in their life or were nice people. Maybe just maybe, we'd have less suicides if every minister at a funeral of one who committed suicide would warn of hell instead of saying "there in a better place now", I don't know just maybe. If I was a Pastor it would be a very hard thing to do, but I would'nt want our Pastor's compromising the truth just to offer some "hope."
Yes I guess we will have to agree to disagree, but can we still be friends?

Honestly I was not trying to make you out to be a bad guy, I was more warning you on how you stated your position strongly. I have come across strongly before, and have caused more harm then good. I was trying to help, and in my first post, just make a counter point that open rebellion was not necessarily part of suicide. I like a good debate, I just prefer it to be a reasoned one.

As for being friends, yes, we can. I rather wanted to deal with this on pm but you are to new to use it yet!

PartnerInChrist · June 25, 2010

Your making me out to be the bad guy simply because this is a serious issue and I'm emphatically stating my position. Don't look at the sarcasm look at the point I'm trying to make. I don't believe hope trumps truth and we don't need to twist the gospel to give out false hope to everyone who commits suicide just because they went to church at some point in their life or were nice people. Maybe just maybe, we'd have less suicides if every minister at a funeral of one who committed suicide would warn of hell instead of saying "there in a better place now", I don't know just maybe. If I was a Pastor it would be a very hard thing to do, but I would'nt want our Pastor's compromising the truth just to offer some "hope."
Yes I guess we will have to agree to disagree, but can we still be friends?

Honestly I was not trying to make you out to be a bad guy, I was more warning you on how you stated your position strongly. I have come across strongly before, and have caused more harm then good. I was trying to help, and in my first post, just make a counter point that open rebellion was not necessarily part of suicide. I like a good debate, I just prefer it to be a reasoned one.

As for being friends, yes, we can. I rather wanted to deal with this on pm but you are to new to use it yet!

I also don't mind dialogue, and I thought it was "reasoned" you gave me your reasons and I gave you mine. Jesus came across strongly at times. Have you ever came across strong to one of your kids (if you have any) Sometimes it is a necessary part of love. And we musn't get offended, because remember love is not easily offended(1 Cor 13)

but then again love does not provoke neither Anyway I'm glad we can be friends. And sorry if I came off as rude cause that's not my heart.

Isaiah 6:8 · June 26, 2010

Your making me out to be the bad guy simply because this is a serious issue and I'm emphatically stating my position. Don't look at the sarcasm look at the point I'm trying to make. I don't believe hope trumps truth and we don't need to twist the gospel to give out false hope to everyone who commits suicide just because they went to church at some point in their life or were nice people. Maybe just maybe, we'd have less suicides if every minister at a funeral of one who committed suicide would warn of hell instead of saying "there in a better place now", I don't know just maybe. If I was a Pastor it would be a very hard thing to do, but I would'nt want our Pastor's compromising the truth just to offer some "hope."
Yes I guess we will have to agree to disagree, but can we still be friends?

Honestly I was not trying to make you out to be a bad guy, I was more warning you on how you stated your position strongly. I have come across strongly before, and have caused more harm then good. I was trying to help, and in my first post, just make a counter point that open rebellion was not necessarily part of suicide. I like a good debate, I just prefer it to be a reasoned one.

As for being friends, yes, we can. I rather wanted to deal with this on pm but you are to new to use it yet!

I also don't mind dialogue, and I thought it was "reasoned" you gave me your reasons and I gave you mine. Jesus came across strongly at times. Have you ever came across strong to one of your kids (if you have any) Sometimes it is a necessary part of love. And we musn't get offended, because remember love is not easily offended(1 Cor 13)

but then again love does not provoke neither Anyway I'm glad we can be friends. And sorry if I came off as rude cause that's not my heart.

Its all good, it's a learning curve here on the boards. I have no kids but I am the big brother of 5 younger siblings, and I am a youth leader in my church. I have also come out to strongly on the boards, sounding harsh in the way I did, as I felt strong. I have learned since, and am still in learning, on how to provide a strong argument, without coming across harsh. Its not easy, especially there is no tone of voice here to help!