wyguy Posted April 22, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 373 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 3,331 Content Per Day: 0.59 Reputation: 71 Days Won: 10 Joined: 10/15/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/24/1965 Share Posted April 22, 2010 Does anybody know who Jonathan Welton is? Isn't he the guy who invented "Bendaroos" and the "Sewing Genie?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted April 22, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted April 22, 2010 I am concerned when Jonathan states that there is an 8 fold ministry, not a 7 fold ministry, and that the office of "Seer" is the 8th. He states that a Prophet and a Seer are two different offices. To Jonathan, a Seer is one who can see the spirit realm, both angels and demons, and see the gifts on a person. He states that if you have a gift of healing, or of tongues, or of faith ... he can see them. He states that this office of a Seer operates under the gift of discerning of spirits, as found in 1 Corinthians 12:9, which he also states that this gift has been abused and misunderstood in all the church. While this sounds intriguing to those who want to know more about the spirit realm, or has experiences in the spirit realm, it is not scriptural. If it is not scriptural, I have to question if it is of God or not. If the gift of discerning of spirits included seeing the spirit world, of other gifts on a person, God would of shown these manifestations in His word, which I have found none. Good points. I believe anyone can see into the spirit realm and that it's not limited to those with discernment. If you are born again, I believe, a benfit of that is that your regenerated soul is now able to see in the spirit through the power of the Holy Spirit. Sometimes though, God may put something like scales on some peoples eyes to prevent them from seeing.. I believe anyone born again can see into the spirit though. *hi i hope all is well with you .. i would like to share something i hope i can shed some light ! Seers are very scriptual ...Gad was a SEER distinctly set apart from a prophet.1 CHRONICLE 21:9 9 The LORD said to Gad, David's SEER, 10 "Go and tell David, 'This is what the LORD says: I am giving you three options. Choose one of them for me to carry out against you.' " 11 So Gad went to David and said to him, "This is what the LORD says: 'Take your choice: 12 three years of famine, three months of being swept away before your enemies, with their swords overtaking you, or three days of the sword of the LORD -days of plague in the land, with the angel of the LORD ravaging every part of Israel.' Now then, decide how I should answer the one who sent me." 13 David said to Gad, "I am in deep distress. Let me fall into the hands of the LORD, for his mercy is very great; but do not let me fall into the hands of men." 14 So the LORD sent a plague on Israel, and seventy thousand men of Israel fell dead. 15 And God sent an angel to destroy Jerusalem. But as the angel was doing so, the LORD saw it and was grieved because of the calamity and said to the angel who was destroying the people, "Enough! Withdraw your hand." The angel of the LORD was then standing at the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite. 16 David looked up and saw the angel of the LORD standing between heaven and earth, with a drawn sword in his hand extended over Jerusalem. Then David and the elders, clothed in sackcloth, fell facedown. 17 David said to God, "Was it not I who ordered the fighting men to be counted? I am the one who has sinned and done wrong. These are but sheep. What have they done? O LORD my God, let your hand fall upon me and my family, but do not let this plague remain on your people." 18 Then the angel of the LORD ordered Gad to tell David to go up and build an altar to the LORD on the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite. 19 So David went up in obedience to the word that Gad had spoken in the name of the LORD. *if seers were prophets why did the lord himself make it clear to isreal that seers were different from prophets. 2 Kings 17:13 The LORD warned Israel and Judah through all his prophets and SEERS: "Turn from your evil ways. Observe my commands and decrees, in accordance with the entire Law that I commanded your fathers to obey and that I delivered to you through my servants the prophets." 2 Kings 17:12-14 (in Context) 2 Kings 17 (Whole Chapter) Isaiah 29:10 The LORD has brought over you a deep sleep: He has sealed your eyes (the PROPHETS); he has covered your heads (the SEERS). Isaiah 29:9-11 (in Context) Isaiah 29 (Whole Chapter) Isaiah 30:10 *Even in this day and time seers don't want to be heard because sadly people fear what they See They say to the seers, "See no more visions!" and to the prophets, "Give us no more visions of what is right! Tell us pleasant things, prophesy illusions. Isaiah 30:9-11 (in Context) Isaiah 30 (Whole Chapter) Results from Gospel.com *Discern means to see or perceive. Isaiah 6:1 - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted April 22, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted April 22, 2010 OK, is it really that big of a deal? If someone considers a "seer" different from a "prophet", does that alter the Word of God or the Gospel any? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyguy Posted April 22, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 373 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 3,331 Content Per Day: 0.59 Reputation: 71 Days Won: 10 Joined: 10/15/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/24/1965 Share Posted April 22, 2010 OK, is it really that big of a deal? If someone considers a "seer" different from a "prophet", does that alter the Word of God or the Gospel any? Like Bill Clinton said: "It depends on what the word 'is' is." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted April 22, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted April 22, 2010 OK, is it really that big of a deal? If someone considers a "seer" different from a "prophet", does that alter the Word of God or the Gospel any? Consider the 8 fold ministry and not a 7 fold ministry ... consider seeing demons and angels and the gifts of a person on them. I'd say yup ... seems like it is adding a whole new dimension to the gifts and ministry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted April 22, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted April 22, 2010 Based on that alone, it seems more like fringe stuff to me. People who are more sensitive to the spiritual realm have a hard time explaining to other what they have. I know comparing myself to others who are spiritually sensitive, my sensitivities seem minimal, yet compared to Average Christian Joe, it seems I have more sensitivities - and I'm always getting jumped on as being unBiblical for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted April 22, 2010 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 56 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 22, 2010 I am concerned when Jonathan states that there is an 8 fold ministry, not a 7 fold ministry, and that the office of "Seer" is the 8th. He states that a Prophet and a Seer are two different offices. To Jonathan, a Seer is one who can see the spirit realm, both angels and demons, and see the gifts on a person. He states that if you have a gift of healing, or of tongues, or of faith ... he can see them. He states that this office of a Seer operates under the gift of discerning of spirits, as found in 1 Corinthians 12:9, which he also states that this gift has been abused and misunderstood in all the church. While this sounds intriguing to those who want to know more about the spirit realm, or has experiences in the spirit realm, it is not scriptural. If it is not scriptural, I have to question if it is of God or not. If the gift of discerning of spirits included seeing the spirit world, of other gifts on a person, God would of shown these manifestations in His word, which I have found none. Sounds like New Age stuff to me. That's exactly what I thought,sounds very much 'New Age teaching and this 8 fold teaching does not sound Biblicial, I also have never read in the N.T. that people got this gift,the Bible does teach us that there is spirituel warfare around us....and thank God we can't see it but we do know that we have angels protecting us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted April 23, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted April 23, 2010 Based on that alone, it seems more like fringe stuff to me. People who are more sensitive to the spiritual realm have a hard time explaining to other what they have. I know comparing myself to others who are spiritually sensitive, my sensitivities seem minimal, yet compared to Average Christian Joe, it seems I have more sensitivities - and I'm always getting jumped on as being unBiblical for this. Sis, you know that you have a sensitivity to spirits. Some people call those who believe in tongues whacked, but those who have the gift know better. It is when these are abused and exaggerated, as this man is doing, it becomes wrong. There is truth to be found, but when someone takes anything to the extreme, they step outside of the truth into personal doctrine. According to scripture, there is no 8 fold ministry and nobody in scripture ever said they saw gifts on a person. Google this man and listen to what he says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSLewis Posted April 23, 2010 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 828 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/28/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/28/1980 Share Posted April 23, 2010 Get your snake oil here- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 9, 2010 Share Posted May 9, 2010 Get your snake oil here- well after reading your post CS....i'm very much inclined to agree...although...my two snakes do not produce oil(they are both God's creations, and very beatiful!)!...I just know for myself that I will definately stay away from any sort of teaching or whatever Mr. Jonothan Welton has to say. None of it!!! I took the time to listen, and did not make it to the end...snake oil eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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