Apple Store REFUSED To Take Cash For iPad, Woman Says

[hr.jr.]

hr, sorry, your understanding of "debt" is a little.... off. an immediate purchase is not a debt, under any definition. only a purchase made with an agreement to make payments over time. so no matter how you try to slice it, it is not illegal for a company to refuse cash.

or'el, i don't think the treasury dept defines what a public charge is. i'm not sure who sets the definition of it. but it means charges for services that are for public consumption. an ipad is not a service for public consumption. utilities are.

you raise a good question though about whether or not she could have paid with a money order. or what about a check? does apple accept personal checks? that's risky, lots of places won't take checks anymore, and those that do have the means to run them electronically just like a debit card. and since apple certainly has the money to afford the technology that does electronic transfers of checks, she probably could have paid that way. she ALSO probably could have purchased a pre-paid mastercard or visa to pay with.

interesting how you feel like getting rid of your debit card would be more of a discipline for you than using cash. i'm the exact opposite. i hate using cash for anything. cash burns holes in my pockets. i can keep track of what i spend far better with debit cards. plus, i can keep far better track of what my husband spends when he uses a debit card!

Lady C, Debt is defines as:

1. Something owed, such as money, goods, or services.

2.

a. An obligation or liability to pay or render something to someone else.

b. The condition of owing: a young family always in debt.

3. An offense requiring forgiveness or reparation; a trespass.

Dictionary.com

You are making reference to short term and long term debt.

You walk into a convenience store and pick up a mountain dew from the cooler. You open it and drink it while you are there. You just created a "debt" that requires immediate payment. You pump a tank of gas. You then owe the store a "debt" that requires immediate payment. There are debts that require promisory payment over time and debts that require immediate payment.

[Guest LadyC]

hr, since the buyer does not take possession of whatever object they're purchasing until AFTER it has been paid for, the one in debt becomes the seller. the buyer, if paying cash, is NEVER in debt, because the merchandise does not belong to her at any point.

in the case of the person opening and drinking a mountain dew before paying, that is actually theft. but we're not talking about a person and a mountain dew. we're talking about a person wanting an ipad, and trying to purchase it from a store that doesn't accept cash. no matter how you try to make it otherwise, hr, the store does not have to accept cash. she never owns the object of her desire, is never in debt to the store, and the store is not in violation of any laws, nor of anyone's rights. they are, however, within their rights.

it's the same thing as if a person went in and wanted to buy something with a credit card or check, and the store didn't accept that method of payment. the person buying can't purchase what they want, therefore they are not in debt for it. never were, never will be, unless they go get it somewhere else. why? because the object did not belong to them at any point.

ever heard that old saying, if you say it often enough, people will start to believe it's true? well, you can keep saying it all you want. and maybe some people will believe it's true. but what people "believe" and what really "is" are two different things.

[hr.jr.]

hr, since the buyer does not take possession of whatever object they're purchasing until AFTER it has been paid for, the one in debt becomes the seller. the buyer, if paying cash, is NEVER in debt, because the merchandise does not belong to her at any point.

in the case of the person opening and drinking a mountain dew before paying, that is actually theft. but we're not talking about a person and a mountain dew. we're talking about a person wanting an ipad, and trying to purchase it from a store that doesn't accept cash. no matter how you try to make it otherwise, hr, the store does not have to accept cash. she never owns the object of her desire, is never in debt to the store, and the store is not in violation of any laws, nor of anyone's rights. they are, however, within their rights.

it's the same thing as if a person went in and wanted to buy something with a credit card or check, and the store didn't accept that method of payment. the person buying can't purchase what they want, therefore they are not in debt for it. never were, never will be, unless they go get it somewhere else. why? because the object did not belong to them at any point.

ever heard that old saying, if you say it often enough, people will start to believe it's true? well, you can keep saying it all you want. and maybe some people will believe it's true. but what people "believe" and what really "is" are two different things.

I posted definitions of the word debt. They do not require installments or time. Some debts are long term. Other debts do not. The definitions of the word "debt" allow for but do not neccessitate payment or payments over time. I think your last paragraph applies to you. If you can show me a dictionary definition that says debt must be over an extended period of time, I would be most beneficial to your arguement.

The case of the mountain dew and the case of the gas is not a theft. There has been no intent to convert to ones own use without payment or to defraud the owner. Laws vary from state to state, but in Georgia where I work as a Police officer, neither would be a theft.

[Guest LadyC]

whatever.

you seem to have trouble comprehending the basics. if one is never in possession of the item, then they do not have a debt for it. the STORE would be the one that is indebted to the buyer for a brief fifteen or 20 seconds after money has been paid for an item. by the way, i already stated that exact thing up there in my previous post, so you asking me to provide a dictionary definition that says debt must be extended credit is ludicrous. i never said it was.

the case of the mountain dew is theft if it is opened before purchasing. it's not treated as theft if the person gets in line with intent to pay, but since it is consumed without being paid for, it is indeed theft. what if the person walked out of the store without paying? it doesn't change the fact that the guy walked in, grabbed a soda, opened it and drank it before paying for it. the only time "intent to buy" makes it legal to consume what isn't paid for is if there is a written or verbal agreement, or if there is a sign posted visibly in the store that says "you open it you pay for it".

still, the mountain dew story has nothing at all to do with the ipad story. they're not even remotely similar. the mountain dew was already opened and consumed. the guy had darn sure BETTER pay for it! the ipad, however, had not been opened, had not been used, and had not been purchased. the woman's desire to buy does not supercede the business's right to refuse a sale. and i say her DESIRE to buy, because her intent CHANGED once she got up there and found out she couldn't pay cash. she absolutely could have purchased it by other means, although she might have had to run to the nearest convenience store or drug store to buy a pre-paid visa. bottom line is, there were conditions to the sale of the merchandise, and she DID NOT AGREE TO THOSE TERMS. this is on her, not on apple.

but you can keep on thinking in circles if you want to. it's not going to change the fact that it is NOT ILLEGAL for a store to refuse to accept cash. you can't win on this one because despite how hard you have tried, you have not, and can not, prove your case. it's simply not illegal. it is, however, a distasteful policy, and i doubt i'd care to do business with a company that wouldn't accept my method of paying.

so, until you can admit that you were incorrect and that it is not illegal for a business to refuse cash for point of sale purchases, i have no interest in continuing this discussion with you. the laws are clear. they may suck, but that's just the way it is.

[Fez]

Ummm...I accept cash

Send some via Fez, P.O. Box South Africa (Everyone knows me so it should reach me )

Nothing smaller than 20's please....

[Guest shiloh357]

If the person was able to hook up an iPad, and get benefit from it like setting up their E-mail and using the features on the iPad before purchasing it, the Mt. Dew analogy would work.

However, if you approach the counter, with an item still in its packaging, unopened, unused, one cannot make the case that a debt is owed, and that is what I see Lady C as saying.

Refusing cash is no different than refusing to take certain kinds of credit cards. Some stores don't take American Express or Discover. It also no different fundamentally than a store refusing to take starter checks.

A seller can set whatever form of payment they choose.

I can see Apple's point. This is not like someone coming to counter trying purchase butter and eggs. These new technologies are very susceptable to piracy and having a trackable electronic purchase for this type of item does make sense. It is lamentable that we have gotten to that point, but piracy in the world of electronics is rampant.

[other one]

Technically, a dollar bill is debt itself. A dollar bill represents a dollar that our country has borrowed from the Federal Reserve Banks (which are privately owned).

So, unless you buy and sell in gold or silver or some other kind of barter, you are simply trading a piece of paper which is a loan contract from the Federal Reserve. On it's own, a dollar bill is only worth the paper it's printed on and a bit of usless ink.

[~Shalhevet~]

Technically, a dollar bill is debt itself. A dollar bill represents a dollar that our country has borrowed from the Federal Reserve Banks (which are privately owned).

So, unless you buy and sell in gold or silver or some other kind of barter, you are simply trading a piece of paper which is a loan contract from the Federal Reserve. On it's own, a dollar bill is only worth the paper it's printed on and a bit of usless ink.

[Fez]

Technically, a dollar bill is debt itself. A dollar bill represents a dollar that our country has borrowed from the Federal Reserve Banks (which are privately owned).

So, unless you buy and sell in gold or silver or some other kind of barter, you are simply trading a piece of paper which is a loan contract from the Federal Reserve. On it's own, a dollar bill is only worth the paper it's printed on and a bit of usless ink.

I keep saying........!

If they are useless to you, please send them to me and I will dispose of them for you.....

[Guest shiloh357]

Technically, a dollar bill is debt itself. A dollar bill represents a dollar that our country has borrowed from the Federal Reserve Banks (which are privately owned).

So, unless you buy and sell in gold or silver or some other kind of barter, you are simply trading a piece of paper which is a loan contract from the Federal Reserve. On it's own, a dollar bill is only worth the paper it's printed on and a bit of usless ink.

That is really outside the scope of the issue. We are talking about personal debt.