Tithing is unscriptural in the New Covenant

[stevehut]

So then, how is the church supposed to support itself? Pay the minister' salary? Etc?

[Kabowd]

I think if a church is teaching the Word, serving others, giving to the community (the poor, the needy, the widows, the orphans), and worshipping in Spirit and Truth...there is no need to worry about finances. They should trust that God can and will speak to the hearts of His people to give.

How about this idea?

[Botz]

Tess wrote...

The problem I have with this type of topic/teaching (that tithing is unbiblical), is that it seems to come from a spirit of ungratefulness. I'm not saying you're ungrateful, but it appears that some are searching for loopholes to free them from something they see as an obligation, rather than an honor. Not only that, but it also seems to possess an attitude of "what i have is mine to keep if i choose". Um, no. Everything you have belongs to God in the first place, not you

.

I can't speak for others but nothing could be further from my heart...it is as Willow pointed out...a personal searching of the Scriptures that provokes one to question certain 'taught' doctrines that have been 'drip fed' to us when we were babes in Christ and the way many Churches attempt to teach about 'Tithes and Offerings' nowadays is a baffling distortion of what Dad Ernie rightly alluded too by calling it 'Giving and Offering'...

Many people have been known to give 90% and live very happily and comfortably on the remaining 10%. This is probably a goal worth shooting for because we are told:

I think that is such a worthy goal to aim at living on a small percentage of our 'riches' and sowing the 'overflow' back into the Kingdom of G-d through generous support of our local body of Believers and all the peripheral missions and ministries they are involved with...and any other areas that we feel G-d wants us to participate in...It is encumbent upon us to do so out of a heart of love...it is a privilege and a blessing.

But to promote/coerce Church funding..however worthy the cause by dressing it up it in a wishy-washy doctrine is not really a great blessing to anyone as it is not honouring to G-d..and speaks of sloppiness and a contentment to do what we have always done because it seems to work...and if it is not then of 'faith' it must be something of a work of the flesh.

Yes our heart attitude is what counts...but it has to be mixed with FAITH.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

It is not a question of wasting time trying to prove whether 'Tithes and Offerings' are correct or not...it is a question of wanting to do things according to the word of G-d and not the word of man...and sometimes we need to be open and honest enough to reaccess what we have traditionally undertaken and if it doesn't line up with Scripture...not to be afraid to change!

We haven't got into the 'prosperity teaching' aspect of things yet...but as this has been covered so much in the past perhaps it is best to let the dogs remain asleep in their baskets.

[Willow]

They represent giving as a means of investing in order to make money

ahh brother Rick- I have heard this too.

I would venture to say then saints - let us try to encourage those we meet, believers and unbelievers alike, with our lifestyle and our own forms of generosity that God works inspite of our money as well as with our money. And help out those in practical ways, that need help so desperately, they are even willing to treat God as a lotto machine. Put a little in, get a lot out.

Have we, by not sharing or being generous, created in some cases the need that drives people to accept such teachings?? shame on us!

I hope I can become a better more generous giver, whether it is money, time or some other resource. Part of loving the widow, orphan, hungry, homeless.....etc.

[stevehut]

How about this idea?

Seems like a nice warm, fuzzy ideal. Unfortunately, I live in California, not Utopia.

Doesn't sound like commitment to me.

[stevehut]

1- aim at living on a small percentage of our 'riches' and sowing the 'overflow' back into the Kingdom of G-d through generous support of our local body of Believers and all the peripheral missions and ministries they are involved with

2- Yes our heart attitude is what counts...but it has to be mixed with FAITH.

1- Yup. Except I don't consider foreign missions to be "peripheral". It's all an integral part of what a church is supposed to be doing.

2- And faith, if not evidenced by actions, is dead. (James 2)

[GoodSamaritan]

2- And faith, if not evidenced by actions, is dead. (James 2)

Off the topic again, steve, what translation is that from?

GS

[Kabowd]

How about this idea?

Seems like a nice warm, fuzzy ideal. Unfortunately, I live in California, not Utopia.

Doesn't sound like commitment to me.

No offense, but it seems you limit God because of things you've never experienced or seen personally. It works, I know of SEVERAL churches that operate this way from Georgia, to Oklahoma, to Nevada, Arizona and Colorado, just to name a few areas. [sarcasm] Sorry to hear God isn't moving and speaking in California [/sarcasm]

[Botz]

Stevehut wrote..

1- Yup.  Except I don't consider foreign missions to be "peripheral". It's all an integral part of what a church is supposed to be doing.

I am not into semantics. I could have chosen a better word!

[stevehut]

Off the topic again, steve, what translation is that from?

Take your pick:

James 2:17

New International Version

In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

New American Standard Bible

Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

King James Version

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Contemporary English Version

Faith that doesn't lead us to do good deeds is all alone and dead!

New King James Version

Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.