Socialism's not in the Bible

[Steve_S]

The differences between social programs and Social-ism are the difference between soup kitchens and concentration camps.

No one is saying that socialist programs are socialism.

But go back to your thread about the correlation between Nazi Germany and America. And that gradual slide that Germany suffered. That's what I am talking about here.

America isn't socialist. America* has many socialist programs (like a flood, new ones arriving each week) and because of this, is NOT purely capitalist as Shiloh would like to think.

*My country ain't in a better shape, either.

America has been sliding quickly into socialism since at least January of 2009

Lol, January of 2009? Try about 70 years earlier AT LEAST. Your cash does not belong to you, it belongs to the united states government, you do not own it. It's not gold backed and can be rapidly devalued (from previous post). As for your car, house, etc., you don't really own those either. You have to give the government money to retain ownership at the penalty of forfeiture (if you don't pay land taxes they take your land and house, don't buy a car tag, at the least you can't drive it). Ownership int he united states in the 21st century does not mean what ownership meant from the early 20th century back. Your property is subject to the whims of the government as is your income. We've been heading this way a long while, it's just becoming more apparent now.

[missjenny]

So, you would be ok if all of our socialistic programs were ended then?? The fire department comes out to everyones home if you need them...as no one needs insurance if their house catches on fire because it is paid for by taxes and volunteers. The police will enforce the law and come out to your house and protect you without any insurance on your part as well. If a wild animal gets into your garage, you can call animal control without any charge. Now, how about the street and sidewalk in front of your house...does the typical citizen have to have insurance to make sure they are kept up, pot-holes filled and the street cleaned on a regular basis?

Now, don't get me started on the Military...talk about socialism. When you are in the military you and your family get healthcare, housing and many other things. My father has been retired since '73 and still gets the healthcare and other benefits.

What is a sin is watching people suffer and die because of no healthcare...when there are already so many other programs to take care of all of our other needs, so why not this very important 'life and death' one???

"He has told you, O mortal, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you, but to do justice and to love mercy and to walk humbly before your God?" Micah 6:8

Loving your neighbor as yourself is God's greatest commandment...and who is your neighbor? If you see someone in need and pass by, how is this pleasing to God?? "If you know to do good and do it not, to you it is sin."

Christ's love should compel us to action on behalf of those who need the basics of life....so, if you do not think a national healthcare system would be good, then contribute to the free-clinics around you. Support them and their efforts, so families have basic healthcare...and spread the word about them...and churches should be supporting them if they are not going to support a bigger initiative.

And it is funny to me, that many that are against abortion don't support what is needed for the life of the child and its family after they are born. Wouldn't pro-life mean all of a persons life, not just that they "get born"?? That a yr, 2 yrs, 3 yrs after they are born that they and their very important caretakers have the basics?? I just don't get it... It all sounds incongruent to me.

We are either for life or not.

Bless you sister,

Removing the Fire Department and essential services is not what has been advocated nor implied in the article.

It's actually none of your business how anyone decides to give or not to give in regards towards their giving to God.

It's also up the individual how he decides or decides not to be charitable. That's the point of the commentary. It's between the individual believer and God, much like our relationship with Him. It's manifest through the Corporate body as well.

Either way, the Government has no business delegating what to do with my charitable giving and the redistribution of wealth in a free society and republic. It's the heart fo the issue raging in our Nation right now. Will we remain a Free Republic or will we be a Statist republic?

At the heart of the issue is a bad interpretation of Christianity. It's not surprising because it is the Liberation Theology that our President sat under for 20 plus years.

You should go back and research a man named George Whitefield. You will find that this Nation has stood at the face of this Precipice before. Men who Loved the Lord and His Gospel faced heavy persecution then too.

Peace,

Dave

I am not sure where I said anything about this (in bold)...as it is pretty bold to say some thing is none of my business...as I am not sure that you have the right to say what I can and cannot say, as far as speaking my mind as you have on here...no matter what you think the point of the commentary is...and that I should do this or that. What I have said, or am saying, is that the laws of the land have included protecting peoples property (Fire Department) and safety (Police Department)....so, in my mind, why not go to the heart. Where we make sure each person has basic healthcare...so children have a healthy family to grow up in. This was just my 2 cents to add...

[~candice~]

So, you would be ok if all of our socialistic programs were ended then?? The fire department comes out to everyones home if you need them...as no one needs insurance if their house catches on fire because it is paid for by taxes and volunteers. The police will enforce the law and come out to your house and protect you without any insurance on your part as well. If a wild animal gets into your garage, you can call animal control without any charge. Now, how about the street and sidewalk in front of your house...does the typical citizen have to have insurance to make sure they are kept up, pot-holes filled and the street cleaned on a regular basis?

Now, don't get me started on the Military...talk about socialism. When you are in the military you and your family get healthcare, housing and many other things. My father has been retired since '73 and still gets the healthcare and other benefits.

What is a sin is watching people suffer and die because of no healthcare...when there are already so many other programs to take care of all of our other needs, so why not this very important 'life and death' one???

"He has told you, O mortal, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you, but to do justice and to love mercy and to walk humbly before your God?" Micah 6:8

Loving your neighbor as yourself is God's greatest commandment...and who is your neighbor? If you see someone in need and pass by, how is this pleasing to God?? "If you know to do good and do it not, to you it is sin."

Christ's love should compel us to action on behalf of those who need the basics of life....so, if you do not think a national healthcare system would be good, then contribute to the free-clinics around you. Support them and their efforts, so families have basic healthcare...and spread the word about them...and churches should be supporting them if they are not going to support a bigger initiative.

And it is funny to me, that many that are against abortion don't support what is needed for the life of the child and its family after they are born. Wouldn't pro-life mean all of a persons life, not just that they "get born"?? That a yr, 2 yrs, 3 yrs after they are born that they and their very important caretakers have the basics?? I just don't get it... It all sounds incongruent to me.

We are either for life or not.

Bless you sister,

Removing the Fire Department and essential services is not what has been advocated nor implied in the article.

It's actually none of your business how anyone decides to give or not to give in regards towards their giving to God.

It's also up the individual how he decides or decides not to be charitable. That's the point of the commentary. It's between the individual believer and God, much like our relationship with Him. It's manifest through the Corporate body as well.

Either way, the Government has no business delegating what to do with my charitable giving and the redistribution of wealth in a free society and republic. It's the heart fo the issue raging in our Nation right now. Will we remain a Free Republic or will we be a Statist republic?

At the heart of the issue is a bad interpretation of Christianity. It's not surprising because it is the Liberation Theology that our President sat under for 20 plus years.

You should go back and research a man named George Whitefield. You will find that this Nation has stood at the face of this Precipice before. Men who Loved the Lord and His Gospel faced heavy persecution then too.

Peace,

Dave

I am not sure where I said anything about this (in bold)...as it is pretty bold to say some thing is none of my business...as I am not sure that you have the right to say what I can and cannot say, as far as speaking my mind as you have on here...no matter what you think the point of the commentary is...and that I should do this or that. What I have said, or am saying, is that the laws of the land have included protecting peoples property (Fire Department) and safety (Police Department)....so, in my mind, why not go to the heart. Where we make sure each person has basic healthcare...so children have a healthy family to grow up in. This was just my 2 cents to add...

I really want to bump a thread for you!

[~candice~]

Happy

Reading

[Matthitjah]

So, you would be ok if all of our socialistic programs were ended then?? The fire department comes out to everyones home if you need them...as no one needs insurance if their house catches on fire because it is paid for by taxes and volunteers. The police will enforce the law and come out to your house and protect you without any insurance on your part as well. If a wild animal gets into your garage, you can call animal control without any charge. Now, how about the street and sidewalk in front of your house...does the typical citizen have to have insurance to make sure they are kept up, pot-holes filled and the street cleaned on a regular basis?

Now, don't get me started on the Military...talk about socialism. When you are in the military you and your family get healthcare, housing and many other things. My father has been retired since '73 and still gets the healthcare and other benefits.

What is a sin is watching people suffer and die because of no healthcare...when there are already so many other programs to take care of all of our other needs, so why not this very important 'life and death' one???

"He has told you, O mortal, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you, but to do justice and to love mercy and to walk humbly before your God?" Micah 6:8

Loving your neighbor as yourself is God's greatest commandment...and who is your neighbor? If you see someone in need and pass by, how is this pleasing to God?? "If you know to do good and do it not, to you it is sin."

Christ's love should compel us to action on behalf of those who need the basics of life....so, if you do not think a national healthcare system would be good, then contribute to the free-clinics around you. Support them and their efforts, so families have basic healthcare...and spread the word about them...and churches should be supporting them if they are not going to support a bigger initiative.

And it is funny to me, that many that are against abortion don't support what is needed for the life of the child and its family after they are born. Wouldn't pro-life mean all of a persons life, not just that they "get born"?? That a yr, 2 yrs, 3 yrs after they are born that they and their very important caretakers have the basics?? I just don't get it... It all sounds incongruent to me.

We are either for life or not.

Bless you sister,

Removing the Fire Department and essential services is not what has been advocated nor implied in the article.

It's actually none of your business how anyone decides to give or not to give in regards towards their giving to God.

It's also up the individual how he decides or decides not to be charitable. That's the point of the commentary. It's between the individual believer and God, much like our relationship with Him. It's manifest through the Corporate body as well.

Either way, the Government has no business delegating what to do with my charitable giving and the redistribution of wealth in a free society and republic. It's the heart fo the issue raging in our Nation right now. Will we remain a Free Republic or will we be a Statist republic?

At the heart of the issue is a bad interpretation of Christianity. It's not surprising because it is the Liberation Theology that our President sat under for 20 plus years.

You should go back and research a man named George Whitefield. You will find that this Nation has stood at the face of this Precipice before. Men who Loved the Lord and His Gospel faced heavy persecution then too.

Peace,

Dave

I am not sure where I said anything about this (in bold)...as it is pretty bold to say some thing is none of my business...as I am not sure that you have the right to say what I can and cannot say, as far as speaking my mind as you have on here...no matter what you think the point of the commentary is...and that I should do this or that. What I have said, or am saying, is that the laws of the land have included protecting peoples property (Fire Department) and safety (Police Department)....so, in my mind, why not go to the heart. Where we make sure each person has basic healthcare...so children have a healthy family to grow up in. This was just my 2 cents to add...

Question. Do you sit in front of the collection plate each week at Church and watch who puts in what?

You can say whatever you want that doesn't mean that it won't be challenged on a Discussion Board.

Are you aware that Fire Departments started as volunteer efforts within the community in this Nation? They were not always Socialized Government run affairs. They started as Charitable actions.

The reason I suggested that you seek out history, and in context George Whitefield, is because the Church in this Nation has been around this block once before and it was Whitefield who called us to repentance over the issue.

Are you aware that Health Care began to be offered as a benefit by company's in this Nation only after WW2 as an incentive to grab up the very small labor pool? Prior to that folks paid as they went and barter systems were even used. Matter of fact, the notion of Socialized Medicine and the right to Health Care are a modern invention. Something that has come along only in the last 40 or so years. You can read of a woman in the Bible who spent her whole life savings and a large part of her life on worthless cures only to continue to bleed out. It wasn't until she encountered Jesus by Faith that she was healed. Why didn't Jesus start a Socialized Health System or at least encourage it as part of His preaching of the Gospel if Social Justice is central to our Faith?

peace,

dave

[missjenny]

I should point out quickly that I am not in favour of redistribution of the wealth to anyone other than those in genuine need... which means I am likely to agree with you in your opposition of most socialised policies... however I will adamantly, loudly, vehemently, with bells and whistles, oppose the removal of socialised government services which use tax revenue to meet the needs of the GENUINELY needy, who are not being looked after through charitable giving.

Amen!! Also, I do not believe in stealing from the wealthy either...however, there is something very wrong when an owner of a company makes millions off the backs of his employees who he only pays a little above minimum wage...this is where things need to change. Not in taking from the wealthy, but in making sure needs are being met...otherwise it is very close to slavery...as one cannot get out of the vicious cycle...and then children are being hurt. We make laws because many do not have enuff conscience to make the right choices on their own...so, it needs to be with this as well.

[~candice~]

I don't know whether I want to go back here or not...

Dave, in American history, prior to WW2, how did the poor obtain health care without money? Were they reliant on free will giving / write-offs?

[Matthitjah]

I should point out quickly that I am not in favour of redistribution of the wealth to anyone other than those in genuine need... which means I am likely to agree with you in your opposition of most socialised policies... however I will adamantly, loudly, vehemently, with bells and whistles, oppose the removal of socialised government services which use tax revenue to meet the needs of the GENUINELY needy, who are not being looked after through charitable giving.

Amen!! Also, I do not believe in stealing from the wealthy either...however, there is something very wrong when an owner of a company makes millions off the backs of his employees who he only pays a little above minimum wage...this is where things need to change. Not in taking from the wealthy, but in making sure needs are being met...otherwise it is very close to slavery...as one cannot get out of the vicious cycle...and then children are being hurt. We make laws because many do not have enuff conscience to make the right choices on their own...so, it needs to be with this as well.

So you will make the choice for them? What does this make you?

Do you sit in front of the collection plates at Church each week counting who puts in what?

[Matthitjah]

I don't know whether I want to go back here or not...

Dave, in American history, prior to WW2, how did the poor obtain health care without money? Were they reliant on free will giving / write-offs?

They Bartered or they sought care the old fashioned way.

A few days back a young man at our Church smashed his finger working around the Church. He has no Health Care because he is in college on a scholarship. His thumb swelled up really bad and began to get filled with pus. My Pastor, being a West Virginia boy, came along with a drill bit that he sterilized. He then used the drill bit to drill through the young mans thumbnail, manually, to relieve the swelling and pus. It worked and the young man is fine.

Listen, for most of mans existence there has been no reasonable Health Care as we would understand it. People dealt with it. That sounds cruel but it is a fact. I live in a propserous Western Nation and I appreciate the blessings that we have that include modern Health Care. I don't want to see it ruined with some notion of entitlement.

It's taken Canada about twenty years to figure out that Socialized Health Care means a drop in quality and access. I don't really think it's wise to go this way for my Nation. We have the best Health Care in the world and contrary to popyular thought. Folks are not dying in the streets. The indigent actually have care. No Hospital in my home state of MD can refuse care on the basis of inability to pay. Health Care is available to all.

peace,

dave

[missjenny]

So, you would be ok if all of our socialistic programs were ended then?? The fire department comes out to everyones home if you need them...as no one needs insurance if their house catches on fire because it is paid for by taxes and volunteers. The police will enforce the law and come out to your house and protect you without any insurance on your part as well. If a wild animal gets into your garage, you can call animal control without any charge. Now, how about the street and sidewalk in front of your house...does the typical citizen have to have insurance to make sure they are kept up, pot-holes filled and the street cleaned on a regular basis?

Now, don't get me started on the Military...talk about socialism. When you are in the military you and your family get healthcare, housing and many other things. My father has been retired since '73 and still gets the healthcare and other benefits.

What is a sin is watching people suffer and die because of no healthcare...when there are already so many other programs to take care of all of our other needs, so why not this very important 'life and death' one???

"He has told you, O mortal, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you, but to do justice and to love mercy and to walk humbly before your God?" Micah 6:8

Loving your neighbor as yourself is God's greatest commandment...and who is your neighbor? If you see someone in need and pass by, how is this pleasing to God?? "If you know to do good and do it not, to you it is sin."

Christ's love should compel us to action on behalf of those who need the basics of life....so, if you do not think a national healthcare system would be good, then contribute to the free-clinics around you. Support them and their efforts, so families have basic healthcare...and spread the word about them...and churches should be supporting them if they are not going to support a bigger initiative.

And it is funny to me, that many that are against abortion don't support what is needed for the life of the child and its family after they are born. Wouldn't pro-life mean all of a persons life, not just that they "get born"?? That a yr, 2 yrs, 3 yrs after they are born that they and their very important caretakers have the basics?? I just don't get it... It all sounds incongruent to me.

We are either for life or not.

Bless you sister,

Removing the Fire Department and essential services is not what has been advocated nor implied in the article.

It's actually none of your business how anyone decides to give or not to give in regards towards their giving to God.

It's also up the individual how he decides or decides not to be charitable. That's the point of the commentary. It's between the individual believer and God, much like our relationship with Him. It's manifest through the Corporate body as well.

Either way, the Government has no business delegating what to do with my charitable giving and the redistribution of wealth in a free society and republic. It's the heart fo the issue raging in our Nation right now. Will we remain a Free Republic or will we be a Statist republic?

At the heart of the issue is a bad interpretation of Christianity. It's not surprising because it is the Liberation Theology that our President sat under for 20 plus years.

You should go back and research a man named George Whitefield. You will find that this Nation has stood at the face of this Precipice before. Men who Loved the Lord and His Gospel faced heavy persecution then too.

Peace,

Dave

I am not sure where I said anything about this (in bold)...as it is pretty bold to say some thing is none of my business...as I am not sure that you have the right to say what I can and cannot say, as far as speaking my mind as you have on here...no matter what you think the point of the commentary is...and that I should do this or that. What I have said, or am saying, is that the laws of the land have included protecting peoples property (Fire Department) and safety (Police Department)....so, in my mind, why not go to the heart. Where we make sure each person has basic healthcare...so children have a healthy family to grow up in. This was just my 2 cents to add...

Question. Do you sit in front of the collection plate each week at Church and watch who puts in what?

You can say whatever you want that doesn't mean that it won't be challenged on a Discussion Board.

Are you aware that Fire Departments started as volunteer efforts within the community in this Nation? They were not always Socialized Government run affairs. They started as Charitable actions.

The reason I suggested that you seek out history, and in context George Whitefield, is because the Church in this Nation has been around this block once before and it was Whitefield who called us to repentance over the issue.

Are you aware that Health Care began to be offered as a benefit by company's in this Nation only after WW2 as an incentive to grab up the very small labor pool? Prior to that folks paid as they went and barter systems were even used. Matter of fact, the notion of Socialized Medicine and the right to Health Care are a modern invention. Something that has come along only in the last 40 or so years. You can read of a woman in the Bible who spent her whole life savings and a large part of her life on worthless cures only to continue to bleed out. It wasn't until she encountered Jesus by Faith that she was healed. Why didn't Jesus start a Socialized Health System or at least encourage it as part of His preaching of the Gospel if Social Justice is central to our Faith?

peace,

dave

Sorry, but when you say 'should' do this or that, or something 'is none of my business', then those are pretty strong words to me...so remember, if you dish it out be ready to take it as well...yes? ........anywayyyyy, as the end nears and things are getting worse, and people are loving money more then ever, and since the healthcare system is a money making business instead of a human service business, which is how it started...this is where my beef is. People became Dr's because they wanted to help people....now it is to make money. This is why people tell their daughters to marry a Dr....and it isn't because they help people. Rarely a country Dr. anymore that just loves to serve the sick. Things changed when it became a money making-listening-primarily-to-the-shareholders business. There are of course those who love serving, but in the whole picture, they are in the minority. I even had a Dr. tell me that she would not do exploritory surgery to find out about a difficult problem I was having, because I didn't have insurance. I've worked with families for yrs and hear this stuff all the time. My husband has had several strokes and is in need of intense occ therapy, but only gets it maybe once a month, because of lack of coverage. We cannot turn a blind eye to the needy. "We know what real love is because He gave His life up for us. And so we aught to give up our lives for our fellow brothers and sisters. But if anyone has enough money to live well and sees a brother and sister in need and refuses to help...how can God's love be in that person? Let us stop just saying we love each other; let us show it by our actions." 1 John 3:16-18

A socialized health system? Jesus didn't need to suggest such a thing...as He said treat others the way you would want to be treated! I don't know how much clearer one can get!? He doesn't need to 'programize' love...as He put it in our hearts, and has given us a new nature that would naturally respond to those in need, in whatever form that would take. Even the Good Samaritan...a person despised...and the worst of sinners...gave of himself to a man in need of lifesaving help....so, how can we as people who are supposed to be living above the standards of a Samaritan, not do what we can for our fellow man?? It aught to be in all of our hearts, mine included, to pour ourselves out for one another. When it was said that if you have 2 coats, then give one away...I believe it meant that 1 body really only needs 1 coat. Also...and no one is saying that we sit at the donation plate and watch...what I think is being said, is a call to Christians to be as Christ and therefore to put peoples needs as a priority...as that is one of the first things He addressed when approaching people....because a dying or starving person probably won't hear "God loves you!"...they need to be shown it.

Edited June 11, 2010 by missjenny