Explaining cessationism

May 29, 2010

In 1 Corinthians 13.. we see 'that which is perfect' or 'the perfect thing'.. causing the sign gifts to cease - the gift of prophecy, gift of tounges and gift of knowledge.

Now the context of this:

(1Co 13:8) Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

(1Co 13:9) For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

(1Co 13:10) But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

(1Co 13:11) When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

(1Co 13:12) For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

(1Co 13:13) And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

So.. the fact of these sign gifts ceasing is not in question.. just a matter of when they did.. or will cease.

To begin with on this.. Paul is writing 2000 odd years ago to the church at Corinth. So the 'we' in these verses is Paul and who he is writing to.

Therefore.. the ceasing of these sign gifts is happening in the future after Paul writing to this church.

Now if you look at 'the perfect thing' that causes the ceasing or 'that which is perfect' depending on your translation-

'perfect'--

G5046

τέλειος

teleios

tel'-i-os

From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.

This is not the same as the English meaning of the word 'perfect'.

Perfect biblically.. is in the sense of something coming to completion.. lacking nothing necessary for completeness.. maturity..

English grammar of the perfect tense is a better way of looking at the word.. which is referring to an action in completion.. eg.. 'I have been walking and now I am finished'

In the context of this passage it is about maturity.. the church at Corinth coming ot maturity.. Paul coming to maturity.. with 'the perfect, complete, mature thing' being the reference point that allows that maturity.

So.. what was in part? Prophecy and tongues and knowledge. What were those gifts revealing? God's Revelation to the NT churches. The gift of prophecy was intimately tied up with God's Revelation.. and was the gift of tongues and knowledge.

Following the context of this passage.. whatever is in part.. is also that which is perfect.

If 'perfect' means something coming to completion.. maturity.. etc then it has to be related to whatever is in part.

So what was prophecy, tongues and knowledge revealing? God's Word for the NT churches at the time. This is scripture!!

The New Testament was something in part, in process at the time, coming to completion.

Yes.. there were completed books before the writing of Paul to the church at Corinth.. but not a complete canon. The whole Revelation was still in progress.

The bible.. was in part at Paul's writing to the church at Corinth.. it was being revealed by God's Revelation through gifts given to men during this time. The gift of prophecy was always intertwined with scripture. In fact the word prophecy is often in the bible just scripture.

The gift of tongues.. was a sign to unbelievers that allowed the hearer to hear the wonderful works of God in their own language-- and the wonderful works of God are included in the bible.

The gift of knowledge.. well.. knowledge is associated with knowledge of the bible. God was revealing special knowledge to people to give evidence that they were supernaturally inspired.

Since they then got the completed bible later.. the completed Word of God.. they did not need this special knowledge because they could refer to the bible as a reference point for all knowledge about God.

So-

the bible - the complete Revelation of God was in process.. was completed in the future of the time of Paul writing ot the church at Corinth.. and it allows all christians to come to maturity in their walk with Jesus.

It fits 'the perfect thing' or 'that which is perfect' like a glove.

In regards to -

(1Co 13:12) For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

The 'glass' is like looking at a God's Revelation partially.. obscured. But when it is complete.. then it is like a clear mirror.. 'face to face'.. fully revealed and complete. So Paul then shall know fully.. and others he is writing to.

(1Co 13:13) And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

The 'now' is referring ot the point of completion of the Word of God.. when the bible is complete.. it is a point in the future of the church of Corinth and Paul.

Remember the context of this.. partial coming ot completion.. whatever is in part.. is going to be that which is perfect. They are completely related to eachother. And that which is perfect allows maturity as a reference point for christians. It allows people to grow in the Greek sense of the word 'perfect'.

The perfect thing.. or that which is perfect.. is the completed Word of God.. the bible. And now faith, hope and love remain.

May 29, 2010

The context is that of which is the better spiritual gift. Chapters 12-14 read as a coherent whole.

That is true.. but the fact of the spiritual gifts ceasing is also apparent. Just comes down to when that point is and what causes the ceasing.

Chapter 14 does say 'earnestly desire spiritual gifts' ya.. with chapter 13 perfect thing being about a point in the future.

You are right it is about rightly acting with the spiritual gifts and what the better gifts are... with faith, hope and love being the ultimate expression rather than debating about who has which gift etc and causing division.

But there is also the subcontext of the fact that the spiritual gifts WILL cease.

Bold Believer · May 30, 2010

Then wouldn't the key question be: What is it that needs to be complete? My opinion is that this is the Temple (Body) of Christ. The church is not yet completed, but it IS being completed each and every day as Believers come in. The temple will be completed at the Parousia, and thus spiritual gifts would cease at the Parousia.

Is there any evidence that the Apostles knew a New Testament was actually being written as such? Obviously they knew that letters were circulating from local assembly to local assembly, but as for a book composed of all of the letters being written, I'm not positive that the writers realized this was being or would be composed. (Mind you, that doesn't mean that GOD didn't know, only that the Apostles may not have known.)

Of course, there certainly seems to be some confusion in the matter of the proper implementation of the gifts. I'm not at all convinced that Paul would recognize any of what goes on today.

May 30, 2010

Then wouldn't the key question be: What is it that needs to be complete? My opinion is that this is the Temple (Body) of Christ. The church is not yet completed, but it IS being completed each and every day as Believers come in. The temple will be completed at the Parousia, and thus spiritual gifts would cease at the Parousia.

Is there any evidence that the Apostles knew a New Testament was actually being written as such? Obviously they knew that letters were circulating from local assembly to local assembly, but as for a book composed of all of the letters being written, I'm not positive that the writers realized this was being or would be composed. (Mind you, that doesn't mean that GOD didn't know, only that the Apostles may not have known.)

Of course, there certainly seems to be some confusion in the matter of the proper implementation of the gifts. I'm not at all convinced that Paul would recognize any of what goes on today.

This is true.. and is actually why Paul didn't expressly say what 'the perfect thing' or 'that which is perfect is' .. it was mysterious to him.. and the apostles.

They knew God was revealing Himself and His word to the NT churches.. and that they needed the gifts to prove to others they had His authority.. but didn't know what the end result of what was being in process would be.

And on a side note.. the canon being completed.. isn't when the catholic church.. or any of the councils approved it.. the whole bible was complete before it was approved as a canon. So the completion of the bible wasn't like 400-600 AD.. but more around 70-100 AD.. complete at the point of writing.. not at the point of having a completed copy of the originals.. or the council approving what was what. The books of the bible selected themselves.. were authoritative and trustworthy before being labelled as such by others.

May 30, 2010

Also-- ministry gifts

in Ephesians 4.. this chapter has a similar structure to 1 Corinthians 13.. where there is a point at which ministry gifts are put away.

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

So ministry gifts given to men for the maturing of the saints for work of the ministry, for edifying the body of Christ TILL Paul and company come in:

unity of the faith

knowledge of the Son of God

unto a perfect (mature, complete) man

unto THE measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ.

The bible is all these things- the complete Word of God.. is unity of THE faith.. knowledge of the Son of God.. and allows a man to become mature in his walk with Jesus and is THE measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.

It also allows christians to speak the truth in love.. and allows them to be no more children tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine to grow up maturing in Christ.

Now the book of Ephesians is about unity in the church at Ephesus.. being a built up, united assembly for that church as an example of unity to other churches.. how do you get that unity? They become built up together until they have a reference point where all can be mature.. with the bible as the reference point.

Again..

the bible is

unity of the faith

knowledge of the Son of God

THE measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ

allows a person to become mature

and allows people to no longer be tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine.. since they have a complete reference point of God's Revelation to draw from.

godrulz · May 30, 2010

There is no exegetical basis for cessationism. It is begging the question to assume they end with the closing of the canon. They are for the Church Age and will not cease until the end of the Church Age when He returns for us (I Jn. 3:2). I Cor. 12-14 is about the use and abuse of spiritual gifts. I Cor. 14 ends with positive exhortations with no hint of their supposed cessation. They are listed in the same gift lists as teachers, pastors, etc., so why believe administration or pastoral gifts continue, but not prophecy/tongues, etc.? The proof text in I Cor. 13 is about love vs pride enhancing the gifts. Knowledge, faith, etc. have not ceased, nor have tongues (1/2 billion today claim the experience). The perfect is not the canon, but the coming of Christ in the future (the exegetical arguments are detailed and beyond this simple post).

georgedrw81 · May 30, 2010

Teleios is perfect. Many words in many languages are not or cannot be exactly be translated. Therefore translations, in many ocaasions, try to catch the meaning by re-writting it in different way. Whatever the case is it does not really matter once we have accepted God and Jesus the Word is revealed to us in such a way to understand it and is a glorious moment when it happens.

Blessings

May 30, 2010

In 1 Corinthians 13.. we see 'that which is perfect' or 'the perfect thing'.. causing the sign gifts to cease - the gift of prophecy, gift of tounges and gift of knowledge.

Now the context of this:

(1Co 13:8) Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

(1Co 13:9) For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

(1Co 13:10) But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

(1Co 13:11) When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

(1Co 13:12) For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

(1Co 13:13) And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

So.. the fact of these sign gifts ceasing is not in question.. just a matter of when they did.. or will cease.

To begin with on this.. Paul is writing 2000 odd years ago to the church at Corinth. So the 'we' in these verses is Paul and who he is writing to.

Therefore.. the ceasing of these sign gifts is happening in the future after Paul writing to this church.

Now if you look at 'the perfect thing' that causes the ceasing or 'that which is perfect' depending on your translation-

'perfect'--

G5046
τέλειος
teleios
tel'-i-os
From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.

This is not the same as the English meaning of the word 'perfect'.

Perfect biblically.. is in the sense of something coming to completion.. lacking nothing necessary for completeness.. maturity..

English grammar of the perfect tense is a better way of looking at the word.. which is referring to an action in completion.. eg.. 'I have been walking and now I am finished'

In the context of this passage it is about maturity.. the church at Corinth coming ot maturity.. Paul coming to maturity.. with 'the perfect, complete, mature thing' being the reference point that allows that maturity.

So.. what was in part? Prophecy and tongues and knowledge. What were those gifts revealing? God's Revelation to the NT churches. The gift of prophecy was intimately tied up with God's Revelation.. and was the gift of tongues and knowledge.

Following the context of this passage.. whatever is in part.. is also that which is perfect.

If 'perfect' means something coming to completion.. maturity.. etc then it has to be related to whatever is in part.

So what was prophecy, tongues and knowledge revealing? God's Word for the NT churches at the time. This is scripture!!

The New Testament was something in part, in process at the time, coming to completion.

Yes.. there were completed books before the writing of Paul to the church at Corinth.. but not a complete canon. The whole Revelation was still in progress.

The bible.. was in part at Paul's writing to the church at Corinth.. it was being revealed by God's Revelation through gifts given to men during this time. The gift of prophecy was always intertwined with scripture. In fact the word prophecy is often in the bible just scripture.

The gift of tongues.. was a sign to unbelievers that allowed the hearer to hear the wonderful works of God in their own language-- and the wonderful works of God are included in the bible.

The gift of knowledge.. well.. knowledge is associated with knowledge of the bible. God was revealing special knowledge to people to give evidence that they were supernaturally inspired.

Since they then got the completed bible later.. the completed Word of God.. they did not need this special knowledge because they could refer to the bible as a reference point for all knowledge about God.

So-

the bible - the complete Revelation of God was in process.. was completed in the future of the time of Paul writing ot the church at Corinth.. and it allows all christians to come to maturity in their walk with Jesus.

It fits 'the perfect thing' or 'that which is perfect' like a glove.

In regards to -

(1Co 13:12) For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

The 'glass' is like looking at a God's Revelation partially.. obscured. But when it is complete.. then it is like a clear mirror.. 'face to face'.. fully revealed and complete. So Paul then shall know fully.. and others he is writing to.

(1Co 13:13) And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

The 'now' is referring ot the point of completion of the Word of God.. when the bible is complete.. it is a point in the future of the church of Corinth and Paul.

Remember the context of this.. partial coming ot completion.. whatever is in part.. is going to be that which is perfect. They are completely related to eachother. And that which is perfect allows maturity as a reference point for christians. It allows people to grow in the Greek sense of the word 'perfect'.

The perfect thing.. or that which is perfect.. is the completed Word of God.. the bible. And now faith, hope and love remain.