When Does the Antichrist Appear?

[priest4Him]

The most glaring inconsistency of the rapture theory, is that the Antichrist will not appear until after the saints are caught away; seven years before the end of the world. Paul settles the entire matter for us in the first few verses of 2 Thessalonians chapter 2. "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day [of our gathering together unto Him] shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin [Antichrist] be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God" (vs. 1-4).

The words of Paul are so plain that it is difficult to comment on them. How can they be plainer? Christ's coming will not take place "except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed." Show these words to anyone not prejudiced by "private" interpretations, and he will say, "These verses say that the man of sin (Antichrist) is going to be revealed before Jesus comes."

Paul is not referring to some superman suddenly to appear 2,000 years after his epistles. He wrote, "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work" (v. 7). While Paul lived, he combated the emerging spirit of the Antichrist. By the sixth century A.D., Antichrist had matured. The crowning act in the great drama of deception, however, occurs just before the return of Christ: "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming."' Verse 8. This clearly states that Antichrist will be destroyed when Christ comes. He does not arrive after the Second Advent.

And here's the crowning clarification in this whole thing. Revelation 20:4 assures us that some of those who are raised in the first resurrection will be those who refused to worship the beast and receive his mark! How completely this demolishes the futuristic school of prophetic interpretation is evident, for they claim that the emergence of the Antichrist and the imposition of his mark are to be looked for after the first resurrection and what they call the secret rapture.

[exrockstar]

The most glaring inconsistency of the rapture theory, is that the Antichrist will not appear until after the saints are caught away; seven years before the end of the world. Paul settles the entire matter for us in the first few verses of 2 Thessalonians chapter 2. "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day [of our gathering together unto Him] shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin [Antichrist] be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God" (vs. 1-4).

yes. i believe that some will be able to identify the anti-Christ.

Then, not longafter, the rapture will occur.

[MorningGlory]

The words of Paul are so plain that it is difficult to comment on them. How can they be plainer? Christ's coming will not take place "except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed." Show these words to anyone not prejudiced by "private" interpretations, and he will say, "These verses say that the man of sin (Antichrist) is going to be revealed before Jesus comes."

I did not know anyone believed differently.

Oh yes, there are many. But they are wrong. Scripture is what it is and all of these 'holy men' who try to change the unchanging Word of God are on the express train to a very hot place.

[Bold Believer]

The most glaring inconsistency of the rapture theory, is that the Antichrist will not appear until after the saints are caught away; seven years before the end of the world. Paul settles the entire matter for us in the first few verses of 2 Thessalonians chapter 2. "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day [of our gathering together unto Him] shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin [Antichrist] be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God" (vs. 1-4).

The words of Paul are so plain that it is difficult to comment on them. How can they be plainer? Christ's coming will not take place "except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed." Show these words to anyone not prejudiced by "private" interpretations, and he will say, "These verses say that the man of sin (Antichrist) is going to be revealed before Jesus comes."

Paul is not referring to some superman suddenly to appear 2,000 years after his epistles. He wrote, "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work" (v. 7). While Paul lived, he combated the emerging spirit of the Antichrist. By the sixth century A.D., Antichrist had matured. The crowning act in the great drama of deception, however, occurs just before the return of Christ: "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming."' Verse 8. This clearly states that Antichrist will be destroyed when Christ comes. He does not arrive after the Second Advent.

And here's the crowning clarification in this whole thing. Revelation 20:4 assures us that some of those who are raised in the first resurrection will be those who refused to worship the beast and receive his mark! How completely this demolishes the futuristic school of prophetic interpretation is evident, for they claim that the emergence of the Antichrist and the imposition of his mark are to be looked for after the first resurrection and what they call the secret rapture.

Well Priest, you're partially correct. Unfortunately, you're making the same mistake that many others over time have made: Trying to equate the man of sin with 'the antichrist'. I've said this before, and I will say it again: THERE IS NO DICTATOR ANTICHRIST.

Paul never mentions 'the antichrist' ANYWHERE, nor does any other apostle except....John.

Here's John's words on antichrist:

1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. Please note the lack of the definite article 'the'; John does not know of 'the antichrist' but merely 'antichrist'. There is a significant difference.

1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Again, note the lack of definite article in the passage.

1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. Please note that John describes Antichrist as a spirit, not an individual dictator-person.

2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 'This' is obviously what John just wrote. In other words, 'this' means the many deceivers who say (confess) that Jesus did not come in the flesh. John is defining just what an antichrist is.

Four verses. Four verses none of which define antichrist as anything other than evil deceiving teachers who claim that Jesus DID NOT come in the flesh and the spirit which is behind their teaching. So then, where does this whole dictator antichrist come from?

An attempt to equate the beast of Revelation 13 with John's words on antichrist. But the beast of Revelation 13 is Rome, personified by Nero. Even though the same author wrote both books, antichrist and Rev 13's beast ARE NOT RELATED.

So then, who's the man of sin? The man of sin is a category of people who come up at the end of time, just before the parousia.

2Th 2:3,4 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

What is 'it'? The day of the LORD, the last day, when we are gathered to meet from v2.

So then, the Day of the LORD will not come until the apostasy (departure from a standard, by definition) occurs first and the man of lawlessness (literally in Greek

anthropos anomia) is revealed. Our (the Church's) apostasy gives the man of lawlessness his chance to enter the world. Our bad example is what allows this category of people to come about. They hate God, they hate the things of God and THEY THINK THEY'RE GOD. So then, the man of lawlessness can't appear until the apostasy gains full fruition.

We see the effects of the apostasy now. We see the people who are acting just as Paul says: They hate God, they hate Christians, they hate Scripture and its teachings, and they act like they are a god. In fact, they hate ALL gods. Just as Paul (by the Holy Spirit) said they would.

There's also a Revelation 20 connection, but I've touched on it before in a recent thread.

[EricH]

You have not really demonstrated that the man of sin is not the Antichrist. You have committed an error in logic. The assumption that the number of verses in which a topic is mentioned can be used to either substantiate or disprove a doctrine is faulty logically. Your analysis of the Thessalonians passage has grammatical challenges as well

[BlindSeeker]

I side with the with the understanding of the translators of the KJV . . .

[time-keeper]

Who among us believe that he is in this world already???

Who believes that they know who he is?? or have an idea perhaps?

Just a question i wanted to put out there...

[priest4Him]

Well Priest, you're partially correct. Unfortunately, you're making the same mistake that many others over time have made: Trying to equate the man of sin with 'the antichrist'. I've said this before, and I will say it again: THERE IS NO DICTATOR ANTICHRIST.

Paul never mentions 'the antichrist' ANYWHERE, nor does any other apostle except....John.

Here's John's words on antichrist:

1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. Please note the lack of the definite article 'the'; John does not know of 'the antichrist' but merely 'antichrist'. There is a significant difference.

1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Again, note the lack of definite article in the passage.

1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. Please note that John describes Antichrist as a spirit, not an individual dictator-person.

2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 'This' is obviously what John just wrote. In other words, 'this' means the many deceivers who say (confess) that Jesus did not come in the flesh. John is defining just what an antichrist is.

Four verses. Four verses none of which define antichrist as anything other than evil deceiving teachers who claim that Jesus DID NOT come in the flesh and the spirit which is behind their teaching. So then, where does this whole dictator antichrist come from?

An attempt to equate the beast of Revelation 13 with John's words on antichrist. But the beast of Revelation 13 is Rome, personified by Nero. Even though the same author wrote both books, antichrist and Rev 13's beast ARE NOT RELATED.

So then, who's the man of sin? The man of sin is a category of people who come up at the end of time, just before the parousia.

2Th 2:3,4 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

What is 'it'? The day of the LORD, the last day, when we are gathered to meet from v2.

So then, the Day of the LORD will not come until the apostasy (departure from a standard, by definition) occurs first and the man of lawlessness (literally in Greek

anthropos anomia) is revealed. Our (the Church's) apostasy gives the man of lawlessness his chance to enter the world. Our bad example is what allows this category of people to come about. They hate God, they hate the things of God and THEY THINK THEY'RE GOD. So then, the man of lawlessness can't appear until the apostasy gains full fruition.

We see the effects of the apostasy now. We see the people who are acting just as Paul says: They hate God, they hate Christians, they hate Scripture and its teachings, and they act like they are a god. In fact, they hate ALL gods. Just as Paul (by the Holy Spirit) said they would.

There's also a Revelation 20 connection, but I've touched on it before in a recent thread.

I agree that we are almost in the same path, but what the Bible tells me is that that "man of sin" is not for the future, has been here for awhile already.

Paul called the Antichrist, "the man of sin ... the son of perdition" (2 Thess. 2:3). It is primarily because of this verse that millions have come to believe that there will be o

[priest4Him]

Who among us believe that he is in this world already???

Who believes that they know who he is?? or have an idea perhaps?

Just a question i wanted to put out there...

Martin Luther (1483-1546) (Lutheran): "Luther ... proved, by the revelations of Daniel and St. John, by the epistles of St. Paul, St. Peter, and St. Jude, that the reign of Antichrist, predicted and described in the Bible, was the Papacy ... And all the people did say, Amen! A holy terror siezed their souls. It was Antichrist whom they beheld seated o

[Hawkins]

From my studies.

The dark force is three-tiered.

Satan(dragon) -- Fallen angels(beasts) -- False prophets (possess a physical body)

The first 2 tiers don't necessarily have a body on earth. They can 'speak' through the false prophets.

The second tier;

Revelation 13:4

Men worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, "Who is like the beast? Who can make war against him?"

The third tier;

Revelation 13:11-14

Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon. He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men. Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth.

Revelation 19:20

But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

This third tier interacts with the world physcally. They are the horde of false prophets possessing a physical body.

The second tier again;

Revelation 17:8

The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come.

Revelation 20:3

He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

The Abyss is more like a lair of the beasts, perhaps in the deepest parts of Hades. And sometimes here and sometimes there these beasts will go out of the Abyss (perhaps to the parts of Hades 'nearer' to earth) to do their jobs through the false prophets and to serve Satan the old dragon.

Both the anti-Christ and the Sinned One (Lawless One) are such beasts (fallen angels), left and right hands of Satan, direct commanders of the horde of the false prophets. They attack different targets.

The anti-Christ is for the deceiving the world to deny Jesus Christ, while the Lawless One is to bring down the Church invisibly. The Lawless One is to bring the lawless abomination which causing desolation into the Church (God's Holy Place on earth).

Matthew 24:15

So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel

Edited June 3, 2010 by Hawkins