The Biblical gift of tongues

[godrulz]

Fortunately, the God I worship is fluent in the English language. I don't suppose I'll ever need to supernaturally speak in another language ...and I'll certainly have no need for the gibberish that commonly passes as speaking in tongues nowadays.

I agree with the OP...tongues are possible because ALL things are possible with God. I just don't believe that God has ANY use for the daily use of speaking in tongues. Certainly not in any civilized country.

There are limitations to our mind and prayer. We are not aware of many things, we pray with mixed motives, our flesh is weak, etc. Praying in tongues has a supernatural element and is a perfectly inspired prayer/praise from our spirit to His Spirit. English and our flesh is limited compared to living water that can flow from us.

[Axxman]

I wonder what other gifts people are so quick to reject? Let's take a look at what scripture tells us they are.

So, we have:

1. word of wisdom
   
2. word of knowledge
   
3. faith
   
4. healing
   
5. working of miracles
   
6. prophecy
   
7. discerning of spirits
   
8. different kinds of tongues
   
9. interpretation of tongues

Are we to decide who gets them, when they are given, when they start or when they end? Let me help you with that answer.

"But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills."

Now, which are you willing to say no longer exists? Which one of you are above His Spirit?

There is a difference between "do they exist" and "is it possible." With God all things are possible. I believe that all those things are possible and within the Holy Spirits power. However, whether all those things 'exist' and are necessary for Christians today is highly debatable.

[Fez]

I wonder what other gifts people are so quick to reject? Let's take a look at what scripture tells us they are.

So, we have:

1. word of wisdom
   
2. word of knowledge
   
3. faith
   
4. healing
   
5. working of miracles
   
6. prophecy
   
7. discerning of spirits
   
8. different kinds of tongues
   
9. interpretation of tongues

Are we to decide who gets them, when they are given, when they start or when they end? Let me help you with that answer.

"But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills."

Now, which are you willing to say no longer exists? Which one of you are above His Spirit?

There is a difference between "do they exist" and "is it possible." With God all things are possible. I believe that all those things are possible and within the Holy Spirits power. However, whether all those things 'exist' and are necessary for Christians today is highly debatable.

Care to elucidate? Some parts of the Word are not necessary in todays world? Is that what you are alluding to?

[Joshua-777]

I would just like to know how many brothers and sisters who have posted on this topic have spoken in tongues?

I pray in tongues daily, but also for me, it's private unless I'm praying with others who are comfortable with it like my wife. In Church, I refrain from speaking out loud, Paul says if there are no interpreters available pray quietly unto God. I don't have interpretation and I have no clue what I'm saying but I know that I feel Him when I pray and the gift helps me get into deeper worship.

[Joshua-777]

I wonder what other gifts people are so quick to reject? Let's take a look at what scripture tells us they are.

So, we have:

1. word of wisdom
   
2. word of knowledge
   
3. faith
   
4. healing
   
5. working of miracles
   
6. prophecy
   
7. discerning of spirits
   
8. different kinds of tongues
   
9. interpretation of tongues

Are we to decide who gets them, when they are given, when they start or when they end? Let me help you with that answer.

"But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills."

Now, which are you willing to say no longer exists? Which one of you are above His Spirit?

There is a difference between "do they exist" and "is it possible." With God all things are possible. I believe that all those things are possible and within the Holy Spirits power. However, whether all those things 'exist' and are necessary for Christians today is highly debatable.

I think the Holy Spirit decides what is necessary. and the need for spiritual gifts is the same need as the need then. All Spiritual gifts are used for edification, and only operate out of love. We all need edified.

[Axxman]

There are limitations to our mind and prayer. We are not aware of many things, we pray with mixed motives, our flesh is weak, etc. Praying in tongues has a supernatural element and is a perfectly inspired prayer/praise from our spirit to His Spirit. English and our flesh is limited compared to living water that can flow from us.

Explain this to me then. So what you are saying is that since I am imperfect, don't have God's all-knowing nature, and I pray with free-will (what you call mixed motives)...the Holy Spirit (God) supernaturally inspires me to pray to Himself..so that He can answer His own prayer.

I happen to think that prayer is a little more personal than that. Its actually me, my heart, my mind praying to my Father in Heaven. I don't think there is any benefit for me in becoming some mindless robot for a while so that God can pray to himself in a language and manner that has zero benefit to me.

How do you know that the "Living Water" that is flowing from you is a superior language than English? You can't understand it. It could be as primative as 'click' language used by Bushmen in Africa. You don't know. God hasn't had any trouble using the English language to spread His gospel and His will throughout the world for quite some time. Some supernatural language simply isn't necessary for God to communicate with us, or for us to communicate with Him.

[Joshua-777]

I wrote this a while ago in another Spiritual gift thread.

Lord, Heavenly Father, All praise Honor glory and power be to You. You are worthy Lord, and righteous praise You Adonai. I pray that you would shed light on this topic, I pray that you would deepen our understanding and open our hearts to truth. I pray that you would break down all pride, and reveal your truth in us. In Jesus name I pray amen.

Hi, I very much believe in spiritual gifts. I have seen many gifts in use, and have been blessed with some gifts leaving no room to doubt. I would like to explain 1st Corinthians 13:8-9

1st Corinthians 13 4:-13

4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

One thing to always remember with the bible, it wasn't written in chapters or verses, chapters and verses are something added to help us study, so to break away one verse from the chapter would to take it out of context. Now 1st Corinthians 13 talks about love, that it suffers long and is kind, it does not envy, ect. Love never fails, The context is that Love is what it's about, Whether there are Prophecies they will fail, tongues will cease knowledge will vanish away, but love will still remain.

The next verse is where it gets interesting.

9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

So it's saying that we know in part and prophesy in part, but when that which has perfect has come, then which is in part will be done away with. What is perfect? Jesus. We will be made perfect in Christ. this verse is referring to us being united with Jesus.

If we look at 1st Corinthians 12-14 as a whole, we will see that all spiritual gifts are used for edification, to bring us closer to Jesus, or bring others closer to Jesus, Spiritual gifts are used to edify. When Jesus comes, we will be made perfect, we will be with Jesus, how much closer can you get? What would be the point of spiritual gifts when we are with Jesus? We would already be fully edified since there is no opposition, there will be no sin, there would be nothing to separate us from Jesus, it will be perfect. We will dwell with Jesus.

If we read the rest of 1st Corinthians 13

11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Have we forgotten, we are babies, children in Christ. It is using being a literal child in reference to that, we are not fully grown in Christ, when he comes, we will be. Childish things?, anything separate from Him.

In verse 12 I always find interesting, what do we see when we see in a mirror? A reflection, this verse is saying we get a glimpse, we dimly see, but when we are face to face , what we know in part will be fully known, we shall know just also as we are known.

Then the concluding verse is abide in faith, hope, and love; but the greatest of these is love.

This chapter is complete, You cannot take one verse out, without applying the chapter as a whole. The ending conclusion is love.

To say that spiritual gifts do not exist because of 1st Corinthians 13:8-9 is taking the verse completely out of context.

1st Corinthians 12: 27-31

27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. 28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.

This verse opens chapter 13, "And yet I show you a more excellent way" Love, it's all about love, gifts would be useless without love.

Now concerning spiritual gifts, here are a few verses I would like to share,

1st Corinthians 8:-11

8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ

This verse is saying to each is given a different gift, And each gift works as a part of the body. which follows the theme of chapter 12.

Chapter 13 talks about love, saying the gifts are useless without love, and love is greater than the gifts. If we look at 1st Corinthians 12 and 13 as a whole. We can get a clear picture of what Paul is saying.

Now lets look at Chapter 14.

1 Corinthians 14:1 Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. 2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. 3 But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men. 4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.

Verse 1 is a conclusion to chapter 12 and 13, then it goes on to explaining how spiritual gifts are used,

4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church

Now this is clearly saying if someone speaks in a tongue, edifies himself, and signifies that it's a personal thing. It then goes on to say that prophecies edifies the whole church and is of far greater value than tongues Now if spiritual gifts where to cease why would Paul say in verse 5 "I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied" ? Just doesn't make sense unless spiritual gifts are still active today,

In my experience with tongues it is a prayer language.

1st Corinthians 14:13 Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15 What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding.

It is saying that if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. So pray with the spirit and also pray with the understanding, signifying 2 different prayer types. Our understanding is unfruitful while our spirit is edified, Our understanding isn't the only thing that can be edified. My use with tongues, I draw closer to God, and open myself more to him. Though I do not understand what I am saying, I feel closer to God, and it prepares my heart so my understanding is more open to what God desires for me to know.

Now lets look at Order in the church.

1 Corinthians 14:27-18. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret. 28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God.

Now I've been to many churches that claim tongues is the only way to be saved, and the whole church speaks in tongues at once, Paul sets an order to tongue use, if no interpreter is available , Stay silent in church and speak to himself and to God, further revealing it's a prayer language. A believer with the gift can use it when he wants, can pray in spirit when ever he wants, but God desires it to be used for edification. It says to each will be given a different gift, so that cancels out you have to have tongues to be saved.

You have to look at 1st Corinthians 12-14 as a whole, Taking one verse out of it and using it to try to contradict the rest will not bring understanding, only confusion.

God bless.

[Joshua-777]

There are limitations to our mind and prayer. We are not aware of many things, we pray with mixed motives, our flesh is weak, etc. Praying in tongues has a supernatural element and is a perfectly inspired prayer/praise from our spirit to His Spirit. English and our flesh is limited compared to living water that can flow from us.

Explain this to me then. So what you are saying is that since I am imperfect, don't have God's all-knowing nature, and I pray with free-will (what you call mixed motives)...the Holy Spirit (God) supernaturally inspires me to pray to Himself..so that He can answer His own prayer.

I happen to think that prayer is a little more personal than that. Its actually me, my heart, my mind praying to my Father in Heaven. I don't think there is any benefit for me in becoming some mindless robot for a while so that God can pray to himself in a language and manner that has zero benefit to me.

How do you know that the "Living Water" that is flowing from you is a superior language than English? You can't understand it. It could be as primative as 'click' language used by Bushmen in Africa. You don't know. God hasn't had any trouble using the English language to spread His gospel and His will throughout the world for quite some time. Some supernatural language simply isn't necessary for God to communicate with us, or for us to communicate with Him.

I think you have a bad understanding of tongues. For me, wether it's more primitive or more advanced I don't know I can't interpret, I do know that it's praising our Glorious King, and for me it's not to spread the gospel, but to get into a state of worship and filled with His Spirit. It deepens my intimacy with Him, thus making me more effective in all things. All fruitfulness can only come from intimacy. With tongues, You see no need for it, thats ok. Me personally I need it, and I love the things of God.

[nebula]

I don't see how it benefits anybody other than giving emotional humans some kind of emotional lift. I've asked God that if he wishes to provide me some kind of spiritual or emotional support I would prefer it done in my own language so that I know what the heck is going on, and can actually benefit from it.

BTW...everything in my life is for God's benefit. My life is for Him. If it doesn't benefit God, then it really has no place in my life...speaking unintelligbly included. It is ultimately bizarre to reason that in order to benefit His people God must bestow some weird alien babble upon them. That's truly bizarre...as always, in my opinion.

You do realize you are making the argument that if it is foolish to your understanding then it isn't God, don't you?

To your first statement, as Paul says, it edifies my spirit. As for an "emotional lift," there are times when I'd rather pray mentally than speak verbally at all, and when I pray in tongues during those times there is no emotional lift at all.

Really, you should not assume motives on us like this.

As for the need to know what the heck is going on, do you know how many times in the Bible the Lord baffled people's minds and moved in absurd ways? Like the story of Gideon's army! Or Jesus spitting on a man's eyes.

As for God's benefit, how about your humility and simple child-like faith being for God's benefit? How about your spirit being edified being for God's benefit? How about anything that gets you to talk to Him, whether with your mind or with your spirit, being for His benefit?

And I have yet to hear anyone prove that what I speak is "alien babble."

[Axxman]

Care to elucidate? Some parts of the Word are not necessary in todays world? Is that what you are alluding to?

Sure...like animal sacrifice. I could go sacrifice a lamb for God in my backyard, but its not really necessary. All I'm really doing is killing an animal. I could likewise go sit on my bed and 'humminahumminahummina' for 45 minutes and hope that God gets it, but its not really necessary. All I'm really doing is babbling.