Unleavened bread

[munari]

Unleavened bread is unleavened bread, no matter what the shape and size. I don't remember God giving dimensions at the directions for the Passover. God, BTW, HAS given dimensions before when things needed to be exact.

[Guest Xan]

Ditto, Munari.

[Guest racer]

Munari said:  "Unleavened bread is unleavened bread, no matter what the shape and size. I don't remember God giving dimensions at the directions for the Passover.

I say:  Really?  I don't remember Him saying that we must believe we are eating His flesh and drinking His blood.  I don't remember Him saying, "Now, I know this looks like bread and wine, but it's really flesh and blood.  You must believe that or it's of none effect."  I only remember Him saying that we must do this in rememberence of Him.

Yes, He said, "I am the bread of life."  He also said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life," "I am the door . . . " "I am the sheppard, you are my sheep . . . " "I am the vine . . . " etc . . .

Now, are we LITERALLY sheep?  are we literally branches?

You also said:  "God, BTW, HAS given dimensions before when things needed to be exact."

I say:  Yep, in the OT He was so specific, He even dictated how priests were supposed to dress.  He was VERY explicit as to how the sacrifices were to be conducted.  On EVERY little detail, He left out NOTHING.

AND, when He changed water to wine, there was not question.  What was once water, became wine.  You could tell by looking at or tasting of the drink.  When He healed people, the miracles were blatantly obvious.  We didn't have to guess that He healed them, or have faith that He did what He said He did.  We could see for ourselves the miracles He performed.   So, why would He proclaim to change the bread and wine to flesh and blood, yet not, in fact, change them?

[munari]

I don't know, you'll have to ask Jesus why He didn't change the accidents too. Probably because he didn't want us to be grossed out from eating actual flesh and actual blood. Let me share this link with you... its about Eucharistic Miracles. I'd like for you to look at especially Lanciano:

http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/a3.html

We don't have to guess that those elements are changed. Christ demonstrated time and again with those other miracles that his words had power. I take it on faith that his words have power and that he can change things even when our senses cannot detect the change. Much like how the miracle of faith changes a person. Most of the time, nothing about them physically changes, but its an inward change, a change that can be so profound that they have a light shining from them.

[Guest racer]

Why do you insist that you are to take His words literally in this ONE instance?  There are many instances where His words could have a literal meaning, but do not.  Why do you insist this ONCE you are supposed to take Him literally?

What is the significance in believing you are eating His flesh and blood?  Why would He ask that of us?

God Bless!

[Guest racer]

I don't know, you'll have to ask Jesus why He didn't change the accidents too. Probably because he didn't want us to be grossed out from eating actual flesh and actual blood. Let me share this link with you... its about Eucharistic Miracles. I'd like for you to look at especially Lanciano:

http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/a3.html

We don't have to guess that those elements are changed. Christ demonstrated time and again with those other miracles that his words had power. I take it on faith that his words have power and that he can change things even when our senses cannot detect the change. Much like how the miracle of faith changes a person. Most of the time, nothing about them physically changes, but its an inward change, a change that can be so profound that they have a light shining from them.

munari,

You said:  I don't know, you'll have to ask Jesus why He didn't change the accidents too. Probably because he didn't want us to be grossed out from eating actual flesh and actual blood.

Why would we be grossed out by that?  

Let me give you a hypothetical.  Say that I work at the factory where the communion wafers are made.  What if I accidently spill a box of arsenic in the mix.  Will it cease to be tainted once the consecration prayer is said over the Host?  Will the arsenic no longer exist in the wafer?  

God Bless

[Guest EPHRIAM777]

The reason this is biting at me is that at our church we use 2 large, round loaves of bread. And our wine is really juice.

I really don't think we would do this if it is unacceptable to God.

It could be water and a cup cake if you want it to be..As long as you partake of it worthily..It's the "spiritual meaning" behind the elements that counts..!

Bread and Real Wine "firewater"..would be how the Indians would say it....was the original of course..!

[Guest EPHRIAM777]

Interesting, but this is how I look at it.

Jesus was God. He "invented" Judaism. As a result, Jesus was doing it the way it SHOULD have been done to begin with. All of the other Jews who were straying from what Christ did were not being as good of a Jew as they could be.

     

Munari..you have a simplicity that is quite..."free" in it's expression...!

Good post....!

[Guest EPHRIAM777]

Now I'd ask if everyone has read GEN 14:18..BUT I know you all have..!

To my knowledge was this just a lil prior to the Passover..or not..??

I'm certain it was prior to Jesus and the last supper..!

Was there "leven" in this bread mentioned in Gen 14:18..or not..?

When you have that answer you'll know for sure whether it is important or not..!

[munari]

Eph,

I think that was a compliment...  

Racer,

That's a pretty wild hypothetical there, but I would say no, the arsenic would not change because arsenic is not bread. Only the bread changes. If the church was using unleavened raisin nut bread, the raisins and the nuts would not change into Christ's flesh, it is not of the proper "matter".

You wouldn't be grossed out about eating human flesh???

The other examples, it is easy to see how Christ is like a vine, how he is like a door (those are the only two I can come up with off the top of my head), but HOW is he like bread?

This and the communion thread are becoming very similar, may I suggest we move this all to that thread and end with this response here, unless of course there is another question specific about unleavened bread.