Holy Spirit needed to be saved ??

[Guest tjw]

An initial thought, though, is that this is also a corporate baptism of a sort, as it mentions twelve men.

Actually, it says, "about twelve men". Hmmm... that's an interesting phrase.

[RCruise]

This is getting good!

tjw:

I am also delving into this (I also keep having "drops" with the ISP :???: frustrating)

Anyway, Biscuit asked about Baptism in the Holy Spirit and then related Christ's talk with Nicodemus in John 3:5 to this Baptism.

[Guest tjw]

John 20:21-22

21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost

Here is one more scripture.

[Ovedya]

Okay, here are my comments on Acts 19:1-7, for what they are worth.

I did find that in this passage is the last mention of John the Baptist in the New Testament.

[Guest tjw]

In any case, we are all sure that the baptism in the HS is not an essential to salvation as taught by many Pentecostal groups, right?

Agreed! :thumb:  However, I don't think there are/were as many Pentecostal groups saying that as it is often thought.  I think that sometimes the more incorrect the teaching, the more widespread the news goes that certain people are teaching the wrong thing.  But that's my speculation... I have no data either way.  

tjw

[Ovedya]

Agreed! :thumb:

[Knight]

This is why one must never approach the study of Biblical doctrine with preconcieved ideas. It allows too much human error and judgement to seep in.

Let the Scriptures say what they say.

[Guest C.D. Light]

It is my understanding that when one is saved, they receive the holy spirit.  There is a process of sorts, from that point on, whereby we allow God to "clean us up and change our ways" and TEACH us the bible and his ways.

AFTER that is completed, and IF that is completed, THEN he baptizes us in the Holy Spirit, wherein we receive the Power which comes with it.

Acts 1:8  But ye shall receive power after the Holy Ghost is come UPON you, and ye shall be witnesses unto me.....

These are definitely 2 separate events. And I am inclined to believe that there are many christians who do not fully allow God to make the complete and necessary CHANGES in them, to the point where they ever do receive this baptism and power.  They do not completely surrender to His ways, etc.

but rather, hang on to some of them.

As the above scripture points out, they received Power and became witnesses (preached).  One is not going to be given power to do so, IMO, if they are not surrendered, did not adhere to proper teaching by the Holy Spirit, are still "dirty" in some of their ways, etc.

It is largely dependent upon How much WE agree to yield to His ways.  As long as one remains unyielded, they will not receive this baptism (power). Its up to us. But I do not believe this Baptism of the Holy Spirit is done enmass, but rather on an individual basis.

Remember, when those in the Upper Room received this Power, they were in ONE ACCORD, and in one accord with the (doctrine of) Christ.

We have to get on the right page I believe, before we receive this Baptism and it cannot be taken for granted.

[Guest tjw]

nope, sorry, C.D.  

We gotta get ya to "See the light"  

Maturity or the amount of surrender that someone has in their life is NOT an issue for being baptized in the Holy Spirit.  

Those "about twelve" men that we talked about were baptized as soon as they found out about it and had hands laid on them.  

Ok, maybe you can argue that all those that were baptized all at once were mature and surrendered enough and all were ready to receive.  But I can't buy it.  All of Cornelius and Co., All of the about twelve, All of those in the upper room.... All of them were mature and surrendered?

So new Christians shouldn't ever expect to be baptized by the H.S. for awhile?  

Ok, that's enough.  I don't mean to lay in to you too strong. Sorry.  

tjw

[byHisGrace]

Take a look at Jesus words-He tells us that this baptism is a Promise from the Father!

This promise is to you and to your children and to all who are afar off-even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Yea, that means me!  

By the way, I am Pentecostal and we don't believe (at least not in the Assemblies of God, which is the largest Pentecostal denomination) that a person must be baptised in the Holy Spirit in order to be saved.

Just don't understand why you wouldn't want to be.