Is once saved always saved?

[Guest LadyC]

Matthew 5

20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

are you sure you meant matthew 5:20? i see nothing in this scripture that says we are incapable of rejecting the gift of salvation after having recieved it.

[shammah]

I agree, read Hebrews chapter 6, and chapter 10. But also conscider the parable of the seeds, the seed is the word of God, the gound is the heart of man; if the heart is as good soil, only then can the word bring forth salvation unto maturity. But even then if a man chooses to fall away, even God will not violate the mans will. This is the reason God allows much of the pain and suffering for the back-slider, so he has time to repent. We are in a war here, against the flesh and the devil. So put on the whole armer of God to not only fight against the devils firey darts, but temptation, doubts, and all the lusts of this world. And if you overcome these, you become a special threat to the kingdom of Satan ,and you can expect persecutions, and slandering accusations, because this was how they persecuted Christ, and so we also share in this ! We are called to die to ourselves ,and pick up our cross daily. When you see christians loved by the world, living the rich and easy life, you can be sure they are no threat to the devils kingdom, and aren't even in the battle. Beware when men speak well of you , so also did they speak well of the false prophets.

Agape in Christ; the road is narrow, many are called but few are chosen, but those who's faith is able to endure until the end, the same will be saved; Shammah-2.

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings MoreJesus,

I pretty much agree with others that have posted on this, but I will offer a slightly difference slant or perspective.

What is important is that at the end of the age or the end of our lives, that we are found in the "Lamb's Book of Life". It was written "before the foundation of the world":

John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Now for an analogy, please consider:

Exodus 28:15 And thou shalt make the breastplate of judgment with cunning work; after the work of the ephod thou shalt make it; of gold, of blue, and of purple, and of scarlet, and of fine twined linen, shalt thou make it.

Exodus 28:29 And Aaron shall bear the names of the children of Israel in the breastplate of judgment upon his heart, when he goeth in unto the holy place, for a memorial before the LORD continually.

I see this as a "type" of the "heart" of Jesus on whom our salvation is of the utmost importance to Himself. For all those who were given Him by the Father, He is ever interceding on their behalf. He is always before the Father telling Him that "than one" was saved by my precious blood, for you can see by his works and His love for me, that he is mine. (I am adlibbing a bit here, I hope you understand).

Now, at first glance, this would appear to be "eternal security", and in reality, it is, BUT, and that is a very big BUT, Paul tells us:

Phil 3:8-16 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: 10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; 11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. 12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. 16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

We also have such verses:

Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Revelation 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

We must also consider Judas, who was "called by Jesus", anointed of Him in power, presumably did mighty miracles in His Name, and yet turned out to be the son of Satan.

So after considering all these things, I don't believe God writes a persons name in the Book, then erases it for some sin, then rewrites it in the Book again, ad infinitum. I believe God through away the pencil He used on the 7th day when He rested, BUT He kept the eraser for the END of man's days, when we shall all be judged for the works we have done in the flesh.

There are TWO judgments. The first is after our death, or the First Resurrection. It is called the BEMA SEAT JUDGMENT. Only Christians whose names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life will be in attendance and they will be judged for their works, whether they be done IN CHRIST or not. Whatever WORKS that are NOT His, will be burnt up, BUT that person will STILL be saved.

The other judgment is at the end of time of the UNBELIEVERS. It is called the Great White throne Judgment. All the Books of Heaven shall be opened and those whose names are NOT written in the Lamb's Book of Life are cast into the Lake of Fire.

So the object for us to ENSURE our salvation by "running the race, so as to be the one to collect the PRIZE". And indeed we can have a certain assurity, by the fact that Jesus is NOW at the right hand of the Father, ever interceding on our behalf. Praise God for that, because I sure do need a lot of interceding.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[other one]

Seriously, I will be more than happy to help you with this. I believed in OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved) up until about two years ago. I began to question that doctrine when I looked around me and saw people living in blatant sin, people who were lukewarm and people who continually abused God's grace (Romans 6:1-2).

I have argued with some of my southern baptist friends over this and there is no winning, for you prove that someone could not possibly be saved and do the things that some do, they will just come back and tell you that they were not saved from the begining, and were just deceived/self deceived, which ever.

There is no way to argue this to a conclusion,

So......... :x: :x: :x:

[apothanein kerdos]

Early church fathers along with the Greek New Testament teach a once saved always saved belief. I don't know of one person who is able to read the New Testament in Greek that believes we can lose our salvation. It is so utterly clear in the original language.

[stevehut]

I don't know of one person who is able to read the New Testament in Greek that believes we can lose our salvation.

So the meaning of the Greek text can't be translated into English?

Then how can we be sure of anything in the Bible?

[stevehut]

Ohe of the first verses I memorized when I became a Christian:

Hebrews 10:26-27

If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

[Guest Called]

Seriously, I will be more than happy to help you with this.  I believed in OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved) up until about two years ago.  I began to question that doctrine when I looked around me and saw people living in blatant sin, people who were lukewarm and people who continually abused God's grace (Romans 6:1-2).

I have argued with some of my southern baptist friends over this and there is no winning, for you prove that someone could not possibly be saved and do the things that some do, they will just come back and tell you that they were not saved from the begining, and were just deceived/self deceived, which ever.

There is no way to argue this to a conclusion,

So......... :x: :x: :x:

I know exactly what you are saying, I actually was Southern Baptist and I used to say "they were never really saved to begin with". You know what though? It happened to me, I was saved and I chose to do my own thing after I got saved. it does happen! I just want to encourage you and tell you that some people who believe OSAS really are listening and God will soften their hearts. I have seen this come true with my family and friends. Just keep praying for them!

[BobTriez]

So the meaning of the Greek text can't be translated into English?

Then how can we be sure of anything in the Bible?

Can we stick to the original topic please ?

No need to derail this one Steve.....you may start a separate thread on that topic if you like though....

God bless,

Bob

[stevehut]

I believed in OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved) up until about two years ago. I began to question that doctrine when I looked around me and saw people living in blatant sin, people who were lukewarm and people who continually abused God's grace

Yup.