Article About the Coming 1 World System

[Guest borderline]

I

Edited July 16, 2012 by borderline

[Bold Believer]

Nero. He made war against the Church for 42 months and nearly destroyed her. As Roman Emperor, he had authority over all the diverse people of the Roman Empire. The people of the Empire had to worship the genus of the Emperor. In Palestine, this was aided by the Jewish authorities (Revelation's false prophet).

Rome, Daniel's Fourth Kingdom. The last great world empire. It ran roughshod over every other military in the world. Roman legions were the most feared military of their time. Rome was different from the other empires it replaced. How? It didn't just conquer and control. It assimilated the conquered nations into the Empire. Even Paul, a Jew, was born a Roman citizen. One could even purchase Roman citizenship if they had the money. None of the other empires were like this.

Christ was victorious over Rome and apostate Judaism. The winepress treaded was Jerusalem in the siege and the siege was the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Aah the joys of preterism. Keep what you want, throw the rest out.

Christ was indeed victorious at His death and resurrection, but He has not taken possession of His Kingdom yet. And He will not until the end of the tribulation and His second coming. I can't understand how preterists can believe their own tripe which plays havoc with prophecy and renders it moot.

Nero was not the Antichrist. Jerusalem was not Revelation's false prophet. You can repeat this junk a thousand times and it still won't be true. Jesus tells us that that time will be the worst in recorded history, and the Roman seige of Jerusalem doesn't come close. Small wars later on were worse, not to even mention WWI and WWII. Trying to make Nero fit the future, and as yet unfullfilled prophecies in Daniel and Revelation is ludicrous and utter folly. And until you get a good handle on real eschatology, you are always going to be stumbling around in the dark.

You're right. Nero was not the antichrist. Gnosticism didn't come along until later. Nero believed he was God in the flesh; a Gnostic would never believe that.

Jerusalem was not the False Prophet and I never said it was. The Sanhedrin was the False Prophet, the chief priests and elders.

Your problem friend, is that you misrepresent my position. I have never tried to make Nero fit the future. Nero is right where he belongs in history. Rome is the Fourth Beast, and Nero personified Rome. He was 666.

The timeline you follow is flawed and that is why nothing fits, but you (and others like you) will believe whatever you like, so be my guest. I am past caring.

I don't stumble around in the dark. I know what history and Scripture teach. As for who DOES stumble around in the dark, well, I refuse to rise to that bait.

[Bold Believer]

Cobalt, you say that Christ has not taken possession of His Kingdom? There is Scriptural proof that HE HAS.

Mt 28:19 reads: And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.

Let's face it, that's a pretty big boast for someone who is NOT a King.

Dan 7:13 I kept looking in the night visions, And behold, with the clouds of heaven One like a Son of Man was coming, And He came up to the Ancient of Days And was presented before Him.

Dan 7:14 And to Him was given dominion, Glory and a kingdom, That all the peoples, nations and men of every language might serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion Which will not pass away; And His kingdom is one Which will not be destroyed.

Now Jesus came in the clouds (not with flaming fire as on Judgment day, not literally as on Judgment Day at the Last Day, there is no resurrection mentioned) when? At the end of the Tribulation. And when the did the Tribulation end? 70 AD. Because the Tribulation was on apostate Israel for rejection of Messiah and the Torah of God and for all the blood of saints and prophets which she was responsible for. Jesus calls these days the Days of Vengeance in Luke 21. And one of things he says concerning the Cloud-Coming, after he gives a list of things that occur during the Tribulation is that they are signs of: THE KINGDOM OF GOD. And lastly, in the very next verse in Luke, Jesus says one of the most important verses in the whole paen of eschatology:

Luk 21:32 "Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place.

He repeats it Mt 23 after telling the Jewish authorities that they were about to be judged for all the blood they've shed in Jerusalem.

Mat 23:36 "Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

(Incidentally, he also tells those same people two verses later that their house is left to them DESOLATE. Think Abomination that makes Desolate, then remember who made Jerusalem and the temple desolate: The Roman Army, God's tool of vengeance.)

And again in Mt 24.

Mat 24:34 "Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

You see folks, there WAS a one world system. It was called Rome. AND IT'S NOT COMING BACK. It's most famous leader's name added up to 666. AND HE'S DEAD.

The nations of this world can't agree on jack, but all of the eschatology 'experts' tell you there is going to be a one world system. The 'experts' keep telling you the antichrist is coming, but Scripture says many have already come and defines what an antichrist IS.

If there is a coming one world system, explain to me why every attempt at empire is destroyed by the other nations? Napoleon tried, he hailed. Britain tried, it failed. Hitler tried, he failed. Mussolini tried, he failed. Stalin tried, he failed. Saddam wanted Nebuchadnezzar's empire so bad he could taste it, but HE FAILED.

The Kingdom of God has come. Christ rules over it from the heavens. It's in your heart. And on the Last Day, it will be fully manifest. The wicked will be destroyed forever in the Lake of Fire and the Bride (the Church) will come down and occupy the New Earth (Rev 21).

There is now rebellion is the Kingdom. But God knew it would come. Gog and Magog are marching. AND THEIR DAYS ARE NUMBERED. Blessed be the King! Blessed be the Name of the LORD!

[nebula]

When was the Millennium?

The Dark Ages?

[other one]

Jesus has all power and authority, but he is not exercising that authority on planet earth today....... that's why we'ere instructed to pray His kingdom come and his will be done on earth as it is in heaven...... And the book of Revelation tells us that the kingdom of this world becomes the kingdom of our Lord at the sounding of the angel with the seventh trumpet....

[Bold Believer]

Now Jesus came in the clouds (not with flaming fire as on Judgment day, not literally as on Judgment Day at the Last Day, there is no resurrection mentioned) when? At the end of the Tribulation. And when the did the Tribulation end? 70 AD. Because the Tribulation was on apostate Israel for rejection of Messiah and the Torah of God and for all the blood of saints and prophets which she was responsible for. Jesus calls these days the Days of Vengeance in Luke 21. And one of things he says concerning the Cloud-Coming, after he gives a list of things that occur during the Tribulation is that they are signs of: THE KINGDOM OF GOD. And lastly, in the very next verse in Luke, Jesus says one of the most important verses in the whole paen of eschatology:

I'm cutting it down to this part here because, well, wow. Just, well, wow.

Jesus "came?" We missed it?

Revelation 1:7 Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen.

If Jesus 'came' back in 70 A.D., how did everyone miss Him? Nobody wrote anything about Jesus coming back. Nobody saw Him come back, but the verse above clearly says that every eye will see Him. It isn't allegory and it isn't symbolism. Were the prophecies of Jesus being born in a certain town, to a virgin and riding into Jerusalem on the back of a donkey and all the other prophecies about His arrival the first time fulfilled literally, to the letter, or where they all allegory and symbolism? They were all fullfilled literally. But suddenly preterists seem to think that those rules of how prophecy is fulfilled suddenly change after Jesus ascends and it's a prophecy free-for-all that can mean just about anything one wants to make it mean. Wrong. We see world events moving towards exactly what Revelation talks about.

Riddle me this: I've never yet had any preterist answer this question, and I have asked several. They usually just ignore the question. Just exactly when did we experience the Seal judgments, the Trumpet judgements and the Bowl judgments in Revelation? When did those happen? Because no one has mentioned 100 lb. hailstones or a third of the world's vegetation burned up at one time. When has the sun and moon lost a third of their light? When were the two witnesses here? When were the 144,000 from every tribe of Israel marked? Etc., etc. The tribulations focus is on Israel, but it's effects are felt by the entire world, as Revelation clearly says. The Age of Grace is merely a parenthesis in the Age of Law, it does not mark the end of that Age. The end of that age does not occur until the last 7 weeks are fulfilled and they have not been fulfilled yet.

Jesus has all authority, but He has not yet claimed all of it where this earth is concerned and He is not exercising it. He does not do this until after the sixth trumpet is sounded:

Revelation 11:15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign for ever and ever."

Jesus is indeed King, but He has not taken full possesion of His kingdom yet. He is not here yet and will not be until after His second coming. In your scenario, we have already had the second coming, but we somehow missed it. Only it isn't something that anyone can miss.

Rome was not a one-world system. It controlled most of the known world, i.e. the world known to them, in that part of the world. It still did not control the entire context of it's own known world, and it did not hold any sway over large portions of the earth such as China or Russia, or any of the North American continents. Rome never held total sway over the British Isles, the Germanic tribes, the Steppes, Africa, etc., etc. so to claim that it was a one world system is false. It was a Kingdom, the 4th Kingdom but it was not a one world system.

The Kingdom of God has come. Christ rules over it from the heavens. It's in your heart. And on the Last Day, it will be fully manifest. The wicked will be destroyed forever in the Lake of Fire and the Bride (the Church) will come down and occupy the New Earth (Rev 21).

Huh? The Church will "come down?" Come down from where? According to preterists, it never leaves the earth so there is no where for it to come down from. I thought that the world was just going to keep getting better, what with Satan bound and all, and since Jesus is already here, why would the church need to leave? The above statement makes no sense. And as other one pointed out, "Thy Kingdom come, Thy Will be done is a pretty odd prayer to pray if Jesus' Kingdom is already here. We are supposed to pray for something we've already got?

Starting with the last question first: When Jesus gave that pattern, He had not yet been crucified and resurrected and then ascended. When he stated that He had all authority in heaven and on earth, He was in His resurrected body and was preparing to ascend to the throne.

Yes, the Church will come down. Revelation 21 says so. It comes down from out of heaven.

Rev 21:1

[mizzdy]

Nero. He made war against the Church for 42 months and nearly destroyed her. As Roman Emperor, he had authority over all the diverse people of the Roman Empire. The people of the Empire had to worship the genus of the Emperor. In Palestine, this was aided by the Jewish authorities (Revelation's false prophet).

Rome, Daniel's Fourth Kingdom. The last great world empire. It ran roughshod over every other military in the world. Roman legions were the most feared military of their time. Rome was different from the other empires it replaced. How? It didn't just conquer and control. It assimilated the conquered nations into the Empire. Even Paul, a Jew, was born a Roman citizen. One could even purchase Roman citizenship if they had the money. None of the other empires were like this.

Christ was victorious over Rome and apostate Judaism. The winepress treaded was Jerusalem in the siege and the siege was the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Aah the joys of preterism. Keep what you want, throw the rest out.

Christ was indeed victorious at His death and resurrection, but He has not taken possession of His Kingdom yet. And He will not until the end of the tribulation and His second coming. I can't understand how preterists can believe their own tripe which plays havoc with prophecy and renders it moot.

Nero was not the Antichrist. Jerusalem was not Revelation's false prophet. You can repeat this junk a thousand times and it still won't be true. Jesus tells us that that time will be the worst in recorded history, and the Roman seige of Jerusalem doesn't come close. Small wars later on were worse, not to even mention WWI and WWII. Trying to make Nero fit the future, and as yet unfullfilled prophecies in Daniel and Revelation is ludicrous and utter folly. And until you get a good handle on real eschatology, you are always going to be stumbling around in the dark.

You're right. Nero was not the antichrist. Gnosticism didn't come along until later. Nero believed he was God in the flesh; a Gnostic would never believe that.

Jerusalem was not the False Prophet and I never said it was. The Sanhedrin was the False Prophet, the chief priests and elders.

Your problem friend, is that you misrepresent my position. I have never tried to make Nero fit the future. Nero is right where he belongs in history. Rome is the Fourth Beast, and Nero personified Rome. He was 666.

The timeline you follow is flawed and that is why nothing fits, but you (and others like you) will believe whatever you like, so be my guest. I am past caring.

I don't stumble around in the dark. I know what history and Scripture teach. As for who DOES stumble around in the dark, well, I refuse to rise to that bait.

How can Rome be the fourth beast? In Johns vision the angel tells him five (5) have fallen, one is (rome number 6) then another would come (number 7) be there for a short time then an eighth would come mirror the seventh and the last will be of the seven before him. History does repeat itself and there are dual natures to most prophecies.

[Bold Believer]

Nero. He made war against the Church for 42 months and nearly destroyed her. As Roman Emperor, he had authority over all the diverse people of the Roman Empire. The people of the Empire had to worship the genus of the Emperor. In Palestine, this was aided by the Jewish authorities (Revelation's false prophet).

Rome, Daniel's Fourth Kingdom. The last great world empire. It ran roughshod over every other military in the world. Roman legions were the most feared military of their time. Rome was different from the other empires it replaced. How? It didn't just conquer and control. It assimilated the conquered nations into the Empire. Even Paul, a Jew, was born a Roman citizen. One could even purchase Roman citizenship if they had the money. None of the other empires were like this.

Christ was victorious over Rome and apostate Judaism. The winepress treaded was Jerusalem in the siege and the siege was the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Aah the joys of preterism. Keep what you want, throw the rest out.

Christ was indeed victorious at His death and resurrection, but He has not taken possession of His Kingdom yet. And He will not until the end of the tribulation and His second coming. I can't understand how preterists can believe their own tripe which plays havoc with prophecy and renders it moot.

Nero was not the Antichrist. Jerusalem was not Revelation's false prophet. You can repeat this junk a thousand times and it still won't be true. Jesus tells us that that time will be the worst in recorded history, and the Roman seige of Jerusalem doesn't come close. Small wars later on were worse, not to even mention WWI and WWII. Trying to make Nero fit the future, and as yet unfullfilled prophecies in Daniel and Revelation is ludicrous and utter folly. And until you get a good handle on real eschatology, you are always going to be stumbling around in the dark.

You're right. Nero was not the antichrist. Gnosticism didn't come along until later. Nero believed he was God in the flesh; a Gnostic would never believe that.

Jerusalem was not the False Prophet and I never said it was. The Sanhedrin was the False Prophet, the chief priests and elders.

Your problem friend, is that you misrepresent my position. I have never tried to make Nero fit the future. Nero is right where he belongs in history. Rome is the Fourth Beast, and Nero personified Rome. He was 666.

The timeline you follow is flawed and that is why nothing fits, but you (and others like you) will believe whatever you like, so be my guest. I am past caring.

I don't stumble around in the dark. I know what history and Scripture teach. As for who DOES stumble around in the dark, well, I refuse to rise to that bait.

How can Rome be the fourth beast? In Johns vision the angel tells him five (5) have fallen, one is (rome number 6) then another would come (number 7) be there for a short time then an eighth would come mirror the seventh and the last will be of the seven before him. History does repeat itself and there are dual natures to most prophecies.

Mizz, you're mixing John's words up. There are only 4 nation beasts. (Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece and the fourth one whom theologians know is Rome.) The Scripture to which you refer is this one:

Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, [and] the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

Nero is the person being referred to after the five ('and one is'). Who came after Nero? Galba. But Galba only continued for less than a year. He was assassinated. The next emperor was Vespasian, and his son Titus just happened to be the general who led the Roman armies against Jerusalem.

[Guest borderline]

[

Edited July 16, 2012 by borderline

[mizzdy]

Nero. He made war against the Church for 42 months and nearly destroyed her. As Roman Emperor, he had authority over all the diverse people of the Roman Empire. The people of the Empire had to worship the genus of the Emperor. In Palestine, this was aided by the Jewish authorities (Revelation's false prophet).

Rome, Daniel's Fourth Kingdom. The last great world empire. It ran roughshod over every other military in the world. Roman legions were the most feared military of their time. Rome was different from the other empires it replaced. How? It didn't just conquer and control. It assimilated the conquered nations into the Empire. Even Paul, a Jew, was born a Roman citizen. One could even purchase Roman citizenship if they had the money. None of the other empires were like this.

Christ was victorious over Rome and apostate Judaism. The winepress treaded was Jerusalem in the siege and the siege was the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Aah the joys of preterism. Keep what you want, throw the rest out.

Christ was indeed victorious at His death and resurrection, but He has not taken possession of His Kingdom yet. And He will not until the end of the tribulation and His second coming. I can't understand how preterists can believe their own tripe which plays havoc with prophecy and renders it moot.

Nero was not the Antichrist. Jerusalem was not Revelation's false prophet. You can repeat this junk a thousand times and it still won't be true. Jesus tells us that that time will be the worst in recorded history, and the Roman seige of Jerusalem doesn't come close. Small wars later on were worse, not to even mention WWI and WWII. Trying to make Nero fit the future, and as yet unfullfilled prophecies in Daniel and Revelation is ludicrous and utter folly. And until you get a good handle on real eschatology, you are always going to be stumbling around in the dark.

You're right. Nero was not the antichrist. Gnosticism didn't come along until later. Nero believed he was God in the flesh; a Gnostic would never believe that.

Jerusalem was not the False Prophet and I never said it was. The Sanhedrin was the False Prophet, the chief priests and elders.

Your problem friend, is that you misrepresent my position. I have never tried to make Nero fit the future. Nero is right where he belongs in history. Rome is the Fourth Beast, and Nero personified Rome. He was 666.

The timeline you follow is flawed and that is why nothing fits, but you (and others like you) will believe whatever you like, so be my guest. I am past caring.

I don't stumble around in the dark. I know what history and Scripture teach. As for who DOES stumble around in the dark, well, I refuse to rise to that bait.

How can Rome be the fourth beast? In Johns vision the angel tells him five (5) have fallen, one is (rome number 6) then another would come (number 7) be there for a short time then an eighth would come mirror the seventh and the last will be of the seven before him. History does repeat itself and there are dual natures to most prophecies.

Mizz, you're mixing John's words up. There are only 4 nation beasts. (Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece and the fourth one whom theologians know is Rome.) The Scripture to which you refer is this one:

Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, [and] the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

Nero is the person being referred to after the five ('and one is'). Who came after Nero? Galba. But Galba only continued for less than a year. He was assassinated. The next emperor was Vespasian, and his son Titus just happened to be the general who led the Roman armies against Jerusalem.

Boderline descripes what your debating and heres another way to look at it also. Satan is the 'head' or the one holding the reigns and he appoints the next 'beast' to terrorize and control the money, power, etc so we have at John's time five heads of the beast that have fallen, one is which is rome then you have two more coming after rome one rises and stays for a short while then the last the eight rises that mirrors the seventh and has the charactor traits of the first ones. The only 'people' holding Jersusalem now is Israel and islam despite what we might think America has just about lost sway over anything Israel does or doesn't do they see the handwriting on the wall and know its not long before they are utterly left alone to deal with islam. ITs my understanding that you believe all has happened and we are just awaiting one final fight and the Messiah will come, I do not hold to any preterist point of view.

shalom,

Mizz