Why Choose Christianity?

[Guest shiloh357]

Well, we can apply the same concept on faith, do you think that you attained your faith by your own or that was a grace from your God?

Even the faith that we have to believe on Christ is a gift from God. None of it comes from us or our efforts. Salvation for the world is through Christ and Christ alone. There is salvation in no one else. If you do not go through Christ, then you will not find heaven or eternal life. All other religions, Buddhism, Hinduism, islam, Shintoism, Judaism, and any other religion you can think are all false religions. There is no salvation except through faith in Christ and it is God who supplies even that faith.

Quote

We still are called to confess our sins and repent. In other words turn away. Here is the difference. A person who has accepted Jesus as the one who cleanses us from our sin, is like a child learning to walk. The child may stumble and even fall, but they get up again. That is how Christians are, yes they sin, they make mistakes, they fall down, God just wants them to get up and keep going and try not to fall again. However if a child throws themselves down in a fit of rage screaming and kicking, is that not a different story?

The same thing applies on Muslims, and Israelites before Jesus, so what did Christianity add?

Eze 18:21"But if a wicked person turns away from all his sins that he has committed and keeps all my statutes and does what is just and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.

Eze 18:22None of the transgressions that he has committed shall be remembered against him; for the righteousness that he has done he shall live.

The important thing to understand is that the above verses are not talking about salvation from sin and hell. This is not talking about the kind of salvation that comes through Christ. This passage in Ezekiel is talking about how to avoid going into captivity. He is showing Israel why they are in captivity and the sin that got them there. He is also calilng on Israel to repent so that they can be delivered from captivity.

Well, I don't see Jesus death added anything, the above verse in Ezekiel is enough

The death of Jesus added quite a bit. Your perspective on Ezekiel is flawed.

Jesus made us able to have access to the throne of God. He has given us eternal life and a spiritual inheritance in Him. We have a loving relationship with a loving God based on faith the imputed rightesousness of Christ. We are saved by the works of Christ on the cross and not by anything we do.

[A Muslim]

In Christianity, good works are the product of salvation, not the way salvation is achieved. We have eternal life now. It is not something we earn by offestting the bad with the good. For one thing, no one knows when they have done enough. No one knows how much bad must be offset, so there is no way to know or to be guaranteed that when you stand before God, that you have done enough. You might work really, really hard at being "good" only to find out that all your efforts were not enough.

To tell you, our good works will NEVER balance God's grace and will NEVER be enough and I think you agree with me on that concept, this is not what I mean. What I am talking about is that people differ a lot in works either good or bad. God is fair, a believer who has many good deeds is not equal to another believer who has less deeds, the first should have a higher rank as God won't let him work without rewarding him.

Even the faith that we have to believe on Christ is a gift from God. None of it comes from us or our efforts. Salvation for the world is through Christ and Christ alone. There is salvation in no one else. If you do not go through Christ, then you will not find heaven or eternal life. All other religions, Buddhism, Hinduism, islam, Shintoism, Judaism, and any other religion you can think are all false religions. There is no salvation except through faith in Christ and it is God who supplies even that faith.

Of course even faith doesn't come from our efforts, and that's what I meant. This was an answer to Isaiah 6:8's reply, I was talking about the above point that God is fair, he answered me by saying that the reason for that is so that no one thinks that he made his works out of his own. Well, the same thing applies on faith, no one should think that he had the faith out of his own. And you believe that the one who has faith is rewarded in heaven while the non believer will be punished although the believer didn't have faith by his own but it was God's grace, so why don't you apply the same concept on works?

As for the second part of the verse, I can say something different. All other religions, Buddhism, Hinduism, christianity, Shintoism, Judaism, and any other religion you can think are all false religions. There is no salvation except through believing that the is no God but Allah and that Muhammad is the Prophet of Allah.

The important thing to understand is that the above verses are not talking about salvation from sin and hell. This is not talking about the kind of salvation that comes through Christ. This passage in Ezekiel is talking about how to avoid going into captivity. He is showing Israel why they are in captivity and the sin that got them there. He is also calilng on Israel to repent so that they can be delivered from captivity.

Well, I will not answer you, Adam Clarke will:

Verse 21. But if the wicked will turn from all his sins

And afterwards walk according to the character of the righteous already specified; shall he find mercy, and be for ever saved? YES.

Verse 22. All his transgressions

Shall be so completely forgiven by God's mercy, that they shall not be even mentioned to him; and if he live and die in this recovered state, he shall live with God to all eternity. And why? Hear the reason:-

Verse 23. Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?

No! That is foreign to him whose name is love, and whose nature is mercy. On the contrary he "wills that he should return from his evil ways and live."

And if God can have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, he cannot have made a decree to abandon him to the evil of his nature, and then damn him for what he could not avoid: for as God can do nothing with which he is not pleased, so he can decree nothing with which he is not pleased. But he is "not pleased with the death of a sinner," therefore he cannot have made a decree to bring him to this death.

http://www.studylight.org/com/acc/view.cgi?book=eze&chapter=018

According to your exegesis, do you mean that if any Israelite before made a sin, there is no way to repent and that God will not forgive him, or what will be his case?

Jesus made us able to have access to the throne of God. He has given us eternal life and a spiritual inheritance in Him. We have a loving relationship with a loving God based on faith the imputed rightesousness of Christ. We are saved by the works of Christ on the cross and not by anything we do.

So it seems that your God didn't pay attention to people and love them until 2000 years ago?

[A Muslim]

Why does it matter?

We do not work for the rewards. Doing good for selfish reasons is not what the Lord wants from us. He wants us to be vessels of love. Love does not do good for the gain of a reward. If love is not the reason for doing good works, then they are not counted as good.

1 Cor. 13 is a good reference for that.

Well, working for rewards doesn't contradict with working for love, both are needed because our human nature is not ideal and it always needs an incentive for doing good, this doesn't mean that we needn't work out of love, we need to as well, but working for love only is against human nature, and most people cannot withstand it as we are weak, so we need another incentive that helps us along with our love to God.

(Romans 6)

So if someone believed that Jesus died for him and that he attained salvation, then he sinned and didn't repent, what shall be his case?

(Romans 7-8)

So actually the death of Jesus didn't set you free from sin as you still have the sinful flesh that instigates you to sin. I see nothing new the death of Jesus added, this was the same case before:

Eze 18:21"But if a wicked person turns away from all his sins that he has committed and keeps all my statutes and does what is just and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.

Eze 18:22None of the transgressions that he has committed shall be remembered against him; for the righteousness that he has done he shall live.

God isn't sitting on His throne with a sin calculator adding and subtracting goodness or badness points towards us or against us. He just wants to lavish His love on us, and for us to return such love to Him. And like any parent, He wants His children to love each other.

Isn't God fair? If He is, why does He equalize between a man who made much works and another who didn't work as much of the first given that both are believers?

[nebula]

Why does it matter?

We do not work for the rewards. Doing good for selfish reasons is not what the Lord wants from us. He wants us to be vessels of love. Love does not do good for the gain of a reward. If love is not the reason for doing good works, then they are not counted as good.

1 Cor. 13 is a good reference for that.

Well, working for rewards doesn't contradict with working for love, both are needed because our human nature is not ideal and it always needs an incentive for doing good, this doesn't mean that we needn't work out of love, we need to as well, but working for love only is against human nature, and most people cannot withstand it as we are weak, so we need another incentive that helps us along with our love to God.

Really? Is that your perception? Are you telling me that you have never known the joy of loving God so much that you have no other desire but His pleasure? Are you telling me that you don't love your family in such a way that you give of yourself for them and not for yourself? Are you so lost? Wow. I'm surprised to hear you say this. I haven't even heard something like this from some Atheists. I've mentioned being motivated by love to some of them, and they understand. But you can't? You only know how to be selfish? Simply dumbfounding.

What spirit are you given?

(Romans 6)

So if someone believed that Jesus died for him and that he attained salvation, then he sinned and didn't repent, what shall be his case?

Jesus knows those that are His. That is first and foremost.

But Scriptures show us that we are judged according to what we have done. Many enter Heaven with nothing having followed the ways of their flesh and not the ways of the Lord.

But is salvation permanent or can salvation be lost? The Lord knows, and anyone who chooses such a gamble is a fool.

(Romans 7-8)

So actually the death of Jesus didn't set you free from sin as you still have the sinful flesh that instigates you to sin. I see nothing new the death of Jesus added, this was the same case before:

Eze 18:21"But if a wicked person turns away from all his sins that he has committed and keeps all my statutes and does what is just and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.

Eze 18:22None of the transgressions that he has committed shall be remembered against him; for the righteousness that he has done he shall live.

Your answer shows ignorance of what salvation is.

The whole pattern throughout the Old Covenant was that sin has to be atoned. I don't know what the Koran states about Adam and Eve, but in our Scripture it states that the Lord slew an animal to provide covering for Adam and Eve to replace the leaves they had sewn together for themselves. That is atonement - the death of the innocent to cover the nakedness of man brought on by sin. The work man attempted to cover himself was insufficient and poor. But the Lord made a better way.

And this is what the death of Jesus was.

The number one consequence of sin is separation from God. Jesus, the spotless Lamb of God, was slain to atone for our sin, to cover our nakedness, to restore the lost communion with God. And that is our salvation.

Transformation, then, follows. But that requires the growth process.

I can show you the Scriptures if you need to see them.

God isn't sitting on His throne with a sin calculator adding and subtracting goodness or badness points towards us or against us. He just wants to lavish His love on us, and for us to return such love to Him. And like any parent, He wants His children to love each other.

Isn't God fair? If He is, why does He equalize between a man who made much works and another who didn't work as much of the first given that both are believers?

Who mentioned equalizing? God is just. But what is "fair" is a matter of perceptions.

Heaven is not a reward. Either it is you home, or it is not.

God's love is not a reward. He just loves.

But as has been mentioned, we are rewarded according to what have done. Many will enter Heaven with nothing to show for their lives. Others will receive few rewards. Others will receive many rewards.

We are not told what these rewards are, for the mysteries of Heaven are great.

But to be in the presence of the Lord - what could be better than this? Who needs riches or power or virgins when you are just near to the Lord?

[Guest shiloh357]

To tell you, our good works will NEVER balance God's grace and will NEVER be enough and I think you agree with me on that concept, this is not what I mean. What I am talking about is that people differ a lot in works either good or bad. God is fair, a believer who has many good deeds is not equal to another believer who has less deeds, the first should have a higher rank as God won't let him work without rewarding him

God is NOT fair. God is Holy and Just. If God were interested in being fair, He would have destroyed mankind a long time ago. Rather, God sought a means of redemption that would not compromise His noliness and at the same time satisfy His justice. What that meant was someone able to pay the penalty for man's sin and to take full weight of God's justice upon Himself in our stead. God sent His own Son, Jesus to fulfill that goal.

The number of good deeds from one person to the next is irrelevant. The person with more good deeds is no closer to God for all His efforts than the person with less. God does not have scales and does not weight our deeds in terms of salvation. God has ONE standard of righteousness. He does not grade us on a sliding scale. You are either as righteous as God is, or you are lost. The ONLY person to meet that standard is Jesus, and He offers you His righteousness so that you are fit to stand before YHVH.

According to your exegesis, do you mean that if any Israelite before made a sin, there is no way to repent and that God will not forgive him, or what will be his case?

Adam Clarke was making a homiletic application. I was speaking to the critical, historical persepctive of the passage.

To answer your question, No. My exegesis would not lead that direction. If it did the passage would be self-contradictory. There is no need to call for repentence if forgiveness was not being offered in the first place. Salvation was by grace through faith in the Christ to come, whereas we look to the past and to Christ who has come.

[Isaiah 6:8]

Of course even faith doesn't come from our efforts, and that's what I meant. This was an answer to Isaiah 6:8's reply, I was talking about the above point that God is fair, he answered me by saying that the reason for that is so that no one thinks that he made his works out of his own. Well, the same thing applies on faith, no one should think that he had the faith out of his own. And you believe that the one who has faith is rewarded in heaven while the non believer will be punished although the believer didn't have faith by his own but it was God's grace, so why don't you apply the same concept on works?

As for the second part of the verse, I can say something different. All other religions, Buddhism, Hinduism, christianity, Shintoism, Judaism, and any other religion you can think are all false religions. There is no salvation except through believing that the is no God but Allah and that Muhammad is the Prophet of Allah.

Nope, Islam is just like all the above. You must work your way into heaven. You have made a point in telling us that if your good works outweigh your bad ones, you will make it, upon Allah's mercy but still you must do good works, and even then, if Allah is in a bad mood, you still will not get to go to heaven.

This is the same as every religion on earth, Save for Christianity. Christianity is the ONLY Religion that teaches that we do not do anything to earn heaven. That Good works flow from God, as he changes us step by step into a new creation. In answer to something you said earlier, Yes we are changed, but its a process, sometimes the changes are quick, others are slower, but its a process. Thats why we still have some sin in us. Again, when we die, the work is completed.

Here you go more evidence from the Koran, that Islam teaches, what every other religion in the world teaches. Salvation by works in full or in part.

http://carm.org/religious-movements/islam/does-islam-teach-salvation-works

So it seems that your God didn't pay attention to people and love them until 2000 years ago?

Actually, he did, and showed it. Everything in there religious life was a prophetic type and shadow of Jesus to come. Also, the saints that died before Jesus were taken into heaven as well. You see his death for our sins, yours included, was powerful enough to even go back in history.

God, Jesus, is not part of time, he lives outside of it.

[MrClark]

In regards to your original post Isaiah 6:8, blithely stating all the world's religions with the exception of Christianity are the same is a gross oversimplification. Shintoism, for example, is vastly different from Islam. I'm not arguing that Christianity isn't the only way to eternal salvation, but it's not the 'right' religion simply because it's "truly different."

Also for someone who has been so vociferously defending a faith-alone approach to salvation I would be a little more cautious. You should at least acknowledge the controversy within our own Christian church between those who believe that faith alone is enough to save us, and those (particularly our Catholic brethren) who believe that faith and good works are necessary to enter the kingdom of heaven.

[OldEnglishSheepdog]

In regards to your original post Isaiah 6:8, blithely stating all the world's religions with the exception of Christianity are the same is a gross oversimplification. Shintoism, for example, is vastly different from Islam. I'm not arguing that Christianity isn't the only way to eternal salvation, but it's not the 'right' religion simply because it's "truly different."

Also for someone who has been so vociferously defending a faith-alone approach to salvation I would be a little more cautious. You should at least acknowledge the controversy within our own Christian church between those who believe that faith alone is enough to save us, and those (particularly our Catholic brethren) who believe that faith and good works are necessary to enter the kingdom of heaven.

It is for exactly that reason that I believe Roman Catholicism fits in with all the religions of the world instead of being Christianity. A close examiniation of Galatians, esceptially Chapter 1 1-9 and the final verse of Chapter 2, demonstrate that classifying religion according to the Law verses Grace is a valid polarization.

[Isaiah 6:8]

In regards to your original post Isaiah 6:8, blithely stating all the world's religions with the exception of Christianity are the same is a gross oversimplification. Shintoism, for example, is vastly different from Islam. I'm not arguing that Christianity isn't the only way to eternal salvation, but it's not the 'right' religion simply because it's "truly different."

Also for someone who has been so vociferously defending a faith-alone approach to salvation I would be a little more cautious. You should at least acknowledge the controversy within our own Christian church between those who believe that faith alone is enough to save us, and those (particularly our Catholic brethren) who believe that faith and good works are necessary to enter the kingdom of heaven.

I agree that is an oversimplification, If you read my first post I went into a lot more detail, and my point is that if all of them are the same, and one is different, then the likely one is the one that is different. . Again if you read my first post I even said I did not want to do a blow by blow of every religion in detail but I did provide links. It would take a full thesis or book to cover all of it.

I kept it simple on purpose.

As for Islam, We are debating with a Muslim. That is why I mentioned it., as he said that Christianity, was a false religion, Just like all the others. I brought it up again to show the fundamental difference between all of the above.

Anyone who states that you need both Faith and Works to get into heaven is one of two things. They either do not really know what the Bible teaches on that subject, or they know, and they have some sort of ulterior motive to do so.

[MrClark]

OldEnglish - Well don't tell that to the Catholics, they're responsible for putting together the book you're using to denounce them.

Isaiah - I did read your first post, my point was that all the world's religions differ so it's difficult to draw a comparison between them. As for my mentioning Islam, that was just for the purpose of an example and didn't have anything to do with your previous conversation with A Muslim. Like i said before, Catholics (along with much of Eastern Orthodoxy) largely hold that faith and works are needed for salvation. As for what the Bible says on the subject, if they didn't have scriptural support I doubt their position would have remained tenable for so long.

Regardless, this post is about why Christianity is the only path to salvation, not what that entails, so let's end our discussion and get back on topic. Cheers!