Methodist Church: Homosexuality is a Gift, Not a Sin

[~candice~]

Do you not see a difference between false teachers, and your layman christian misinterpreting the Word?

If they are not teaching their misinterpretations, then yes, there is a difference. But when they're repeatedly confronted and shown the error of their interpretation and they refuse to back down and accept the truth, then there is no difference. They are saying, "My interpretation is the correct interpretation".

Homosexuality is not a gift from God. It is not an accepted behavior of anyone who claims to be a christian. There is nothng in the bible that supports homosexual activity. When someone comes here and tries to use scripture to support the homosexual lifestyle, they are twisting scripture into something that it isn't. The bible is crystal clear on this issue. There are no grey areas.

Most of us here are "layman christians", but when we put our words out here for the world to see, we become witness' for the Word and our words better be true. If they're not, we better be willing to learn.

I condemn any sexual activity outside of marriage as sinful. That includes homosexual activities. However, "being gay" doesn't necessarily mean you are sexually active. There are celibate homosexuals just like there are celibate heterosexuals. I ran across a group of gay Christians one time on the net who believed gay sexual activity was wrong. The vowed to remain celibate their whole lives.

Is this pastor promoting sexual activities outside the marriage covenant, or is he just promoting accepting who you are? If the former, than I agree that he is promoting fornication. However, if the latter, than I can't say that I disagree with him too much.

Reason with me a little, please.

Let's say that you had a desire to murder. Should you promote accepting who you are; a person who desires to murder?

Let's say you had a desire to steal. Should you promote accepting who you are; a person who desires to steal?

How about a greedy nature?

I think it is clear to Christians that we should not promote an acceptance of anything that is not in the Will of God. Anything that is not of Him, we should not be tolerating in us. So why should we promote 'accepting who you are' as a gay person, when we know that this desire isn't from God?

I think it pushes the bounds. Debating whether or not it is deemed sin is really a strawman. I don't care what label it ends up with. It's a desire that is not from Him, so why fight so hard to try and make it acceptable? How about just a confession: Lord Jesus, please strip from me anything that isn't of You, transform my mind by the power of Your Word.

Ro 12

¹ Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God

[Byron A]

Nor did I say that I condone homosexual activities. Only that I condone acceptance of homosexual sexual orientation.

[Byron A]

Do you not see a difference between false teachers, and your layman christian misinterpreting the Word?

If they are not teaching their misinterpretations, then yes, there is a difference. But when they're repeatedly confronted and shown the error of their interpretation and they refuse to back down and accept the truth, then there is no difference. They are saying, "My interpretation is the correct interpretation".

Homosexuality is not a gift from God. It is not an accepted behavior of anyone who claims to be a christian. There is nothng in the bible that supports homosexual activity. When someone comes here and tries to use scripture to support the homosexual lifestyle, they are twisting scripture into something that it isn't. The bible is crystal clear on this issue. There are no grey areas.

Most of us here are "layman christians", but when we put our words out here for the world to see, we become witness' for the Word and our words better be true. If they're not, we better be willing to learn.

I condemn any sexual activity outside of marriage as sinful. That includes homosexual activities. However, "being gay" doesn't necessarily mean you are sexually active. There are celibate homosexuals just like there are celibate heterosexuals. I ran across a group of gay Christians one time on the net who believed gay sexual activity was wrong. The vowed to remain celibate their whole lives.

Is this pastor promoting sexual activities outside the marriage covenant, or is he just promoting accepting who you are? If the former, than I agree that he is promoting fornication. However, if the latter, than I can't say that I disagree with him too much.

Reason with me a little, please.

Let's say that you had a desire to murder. Should you promote accepting who you are; a person who desires to murder?

Let's say you had a desire to steal. Should you promote accepting who you are; a person who desires to steal?

How about a greedy nature?

I think it is clear to Christians that we should not promote an acceptance of anything that is not in the Will of God. Anything that is not of Him, we should not be tolerating in us. So why should we promote 'accepting who you are' as a gay person, when we know that this desire isn't from God?

I think it pushes the bounds. Debating whether or not it is deemed sin is really a strawman. I don't care what label it ends up with. It's a desire that is not from Him, so why fight so hard to try and make it acceptable? How about just a confession: Lord Jesus, please strip from me anything that isn't of You, transform my mind by the power of Your Word.

Ro 12

¹ Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God

[~candice~]

I condemn any sexual activity outside of marriage as sinful. That includes homosexual activities.

I am sure that he is not promoting homosexual activities, but rather recognition that God made some attracted to the same sex and there is nothing to be ashamed about it.

Now I am confused. If there is nothing to be ashamed of, why is it sinful or condemned?

[~candice~]

Do you not see a difference between false teachers, and your layman christian misinterpreting the Word?

If they are not teaching their misinterpretations, then yes, there is a difference. But when they're repeatedly confronted and shown the error of their interpretation and they refuse to back down and accept the truth, then there is no difference. They are saying, "My interpretation is the correct interpretation".

Homosexuality is not a gift from God. It is not an accepted behavior of anyone who claims to be a christian. There is nothng in the bible that supports homosexual activity. When someone comes here and tries to use scripture to support the homosexual lifestyle, they are twisting scripture into something that it isn't. The bible is crystal clear on this issue. There are no grey areas.

Most of us here are "layman christians", but when we put our words out here for the world to see, we become witness' for the Word and our words better be true. If they're not, we better be willing to learn.

I condemn any sexual activity outside of marriage as sinful. That includes homosexual activities. However, "being gay" doesn't necessarily mean you are sexually active. There are celibate homosexuals just like there are celibate heterosexuals. I ran across a group of gay Christians one time on the net who believed gay sexual activity was wrong. The vowed to remain celibate their whole lives.

Is this pastor promoting sexual activities outside the marriage covenant, or is he just promoting accepting who you are? If the former, than I agree that he is promoting fornication. However, if the latter, than I can't say that I disagree with him too much.

Reason with me a little, please.

Let's say that you had a desire to murder. Should you promote accepting who you are; a person who desires to murder?

Let's say you had a desire to steal. Should you promote accepting who you are; a person who desires to steal?

How about a greedy nature?

I think it is clear to Christians that we should not promote an acceptance of anything that is not in the Will of God. Anything that is not of Him, we should not be tolerating in us. So why should we promote 'accepting who you are' as a gay person, when we know that this desire isn't from God?

I think it pushes the bounds. Debating whether or not it is deemed sin is really a strawman. I don't care what label it ends up with. It's a desire that is not from Him, so why fight so hard to try and make it acceptable? How about just a confession: Lord Jesus, please strip from me anything that isn't of You, transform my mind by the power of Your Word.

Ro 12

¹ Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God

[Byron A]

I condemn any sexual activity outside of marriage as sinful. That includes homosexual activities.

I am sure that he is not promoting homosexual activities, but rather recognition that God made some attracted to the same sex and there is nothing to be ashamed about it.

Now I am confused. If there is nothing to be ashamed of, why is it sinful or condemned?

It is not sinful or condemned to be attracted to the same sex. According to most English Bible translations, it is only the sexual activities that are condemned and are sinful. Unless it can be proven otherwise that the original language texts also condemned the orientation, I will go with these translations...

[~candice~]

I condemn any sexual activity outside of marriage as sinful. That includes homosexual activities.

I am sure that he is not promoting homosexual activities, but rather recognition that God made some attracted to the same sex and there is nothing to be ashamed about it.

Now I am confused. If there is nothing to be ashamed of, why is it sinful or condemned?

It is not sinful or condemned to be attracted to the same sex. According to most English Bible translations, it is only the sexual activities that are condemned and are sinful. Unless it can be proven otherwise that the original language texts also condemned the orientation, I will go with these translations...

I just posted on this. It might not be an act of sin to have those feelings, but do you agree that it is not from God? I still fail to see why I should accept or be unashamed of desires that aren't of Him.

[Byron A]

A theology course I once took said that everyone brings assumptions to the table in any debate. Every theologian, every politician, every layman. Once we figure out what those assumptions and debate them, we are actually getting somewhere.

It seems like one of your assumptions is that man is fallen from birth, so any desires and urges we are born with should automatically be suspect. I disagree. We are born perfect and innocent. We have the undistorted image of God within us at birth. Yes, Adam and Eve brought sin into the world. I completely agree with that. And we are more susceptible to committing sin because of the influence of the sin of Adam and Eve, as well as the influence of all the sins that are committed around us. Not to mention that the very world around us has a fallen nature. However, a baby is innocent, free from sin. Is this not the whole idea behind the age of accountability, and children automatically being saved up to that age?

I guess my view is that if we compare it to "Nature vs. nurture" debate, I come out on the side of sin being "nurtured".

[~candice~]

Are you a parent? I can assure you 100 times over that my daughter knows exactly how to sin and she is well below the age of accountability. She is defiant, rude, insolent, disrespectful of people and possessions. Standard 2 year old behavior. Ask any parent and they will tell you that children are intentionally disobedient from a very very young age.

Beyond this simple example, I believe there is a plethora of scripture to refute your point. This will have to wait until tomorrow as it is midnight here, but I hope that sometime soon you will engage in a scriptural defense of your stated positions. There is only so long we can exchange ideas and opinions, eventually they need to be measured against the Word.

God bless

[Byron A]

Are you a parent? I can assure you 100 times over that my daughter knows exactly how to sin and she is well below the age of accountability. She is defiant, rude, insolent, disrespectful of people and possessions. Standard 2 year old behavior. Ask any parent and they will tell you that children are intentionally disobedient from a very very young age.

Beyond this simple example, I believe there is a plethora of scripture to refute your point. This will have to wait until tomorrow as it is midnight here, but I hope that sometime soon you will engage in a scriptural defense of your stated positions. There is only so long we can exchange ideas and opinions, eventually they need to be measured against the Word.

God bless

Yes I have two beautiful children who are the light of my life. Their disobedience from such a young age is not from something they are born with, but however it is something that they acquire due to the sin all around us. Children 200 years ago were not so disobedient at such a young age. It took a while a longer for sin to get to them, because the culture was more Christian, sin wasn't as open out in the public back then.

You want Scriptures to refute Original sin (the idea that we are responsible for the sins of Adam and Eve from birth)? Keep in mind in the Hebrew, "father" did not literally mean father, but any male direct male ancestor, including father, grandfather, great grandfather, etc.

In the Old Testament, in the Book of Ezekiel, God's people are rebuked for suggesting that the children would die/suffer for their father's sins:

The word of the Lord came to me: "What do you people mean by quoting this proverb about the land of Israel: 'The parents eat sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge'? As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, you will no longer quote this proverb in Israel. For everyone belongs to me, the parent as well as the child