Why the Same-Sex Marriage Experiment Will Not Work

[Guest TeenTitan19]

Candice: I will be quick to say you cannot relate because there is nothing to be delivered from. Sexual promiscuity: bad; loving committed gays or lesbians raising a family, and living an everyday life: i see nothing wrong.

and yes. i am a christian.

[Guest TeenTitan19]

double post... delete lol

Edited June 23, 2011 by TeenTitan19

[~candice~]

actually many gay people are christians who have deep relationships with God. some even become ministers.

Teen, are you posting on this topic because of personal interest? I have no doubt many people claim to be both Christian and gay. But I struggle to see how they can do that with a plain reading of the bible, something has to give in order to think you can be both. This has been widely debated on the boards, but the only way I can see a Christian also being gay is if that person is still battling AGAINST their desires, not someone who has openly embraced their desires. In which case, when we are saved we are born again, a new creature, the old has perished (the flesh) and we claim to be whole in Christ. We are not our temptations any longer, we are a new creation in Christ Jesus.

[~candice~]

Candice: I will be quick to say you cannot relate because there is nothing to be delivered from. Sexual promiscuity: bad; loving committed gays or lesbians raising a family, and living an everyday life: i see nothing wrong.

and yes. i am a christian.

I am glad you are a believer. How is it you came to have this understanding of the issue? I fought against this thinking for years, having been involved in a homosexual relationship in the past it was very much personal to me and I do have the ability to relate . I also know what it is like to be set free and it takes nothing less than the pure truth of Christ delivered in absolute love.

Sometimes as Christians, in order to uphold His pure word, we have to take stances which society thinks are hateful, spiteful and unloving. But if that label be thrown at me, so be it, there is not much I can do about it, but I know the power of God is in His gospel, and in nothing else.

There is something to be delivered of here and God is more than capable, and it pains me to see people remain where they are in their sin because this notion keeps getting perpetuated that sexuality is both too hard to change, or not of interest to God. Both are untrue.

[Guest TeenTitan19]

no i am not posting because of "personal interest" i just feel that your train of thought is completely wrong and hate to have it (to steal a phrase often used by like minded individuals) "shoved down my throat" as it is often done (or attempted to be done) in our government and personal lives. I'll play devil's advocate for a second, say gay love is a sin. we are all sinners. Each and every time we sin, we embrace our "desires." example: gossip mongering christians who SWEAR ON THE BIBLE that they are good christians. do i consider them any less of christians because they gossip about everyone, no, but i consider it a fault of theirs. same rule should apply in this case. Back to my normal self, maybe you should make it a point to research gay christians a little more before you make assumptions about them.

[Guest TeenTitan19]

if you would like to PM me i would be glad to point you in the direction of gay affirming churches that the youth in my area often are interested in. they can offer you a better explanation than I about homosexuality and the bible. if nothing else, it would be an interesting discussion.

[~candice~]

no i am not posting because of "personal interest" i just feel that your train of thought is completely wrong and hate to have it (to steal a phrase often used by like minded individuals) "shoved down my throat" as it is often done (or attempted to be done) in our government and personal lives. I'll play devil's advocate for a second, say gay love is a sin. we are all sinners. Each and every time we sin, we embrace our "desires." example: gossip mongering christians who SWEAR ON THE BIBLE that they are good christians. do i consider them any less of christians because they gossip about everyone, no, but i consider it a fault of theirs. same rule should apply in this case. Back to my normal self, maybe you should make it a point to research gay christians a little more before you make assumptions about them.

No one is forcing you to read my posts, so how are they shoved down your throat? And what's the difference, on the shoving-down-one's-throat scale, between a Christian opposing gay marriage, and a gay person flaunting their stuff and pushing to have that in our schools?

It's obvious you do not believe gay sex is a sin. What do you do with Romans 1 and 1 Corinthians 6? These passages are awfully hard to weasle out of.

Now, you are right that all Christians sin. But the bible distinguishes between those trapped in habitual sin, who are not fighting against their sin but willingly dive in head first, "the practice of sin", and between those who struggle against sin and for whom sin brings conviction and a broken heart towards the Lord. Most "gay Christians" are the former.

As for researching gay Christians, did you even read my post? I've lived that life, I could write the book. I know what it is like FIRST HAND, do you? I've seen two gay people saved and walk away from their homosexual lifestyle, have you? Maybe you should research ME a little before you accuse me of being presumptuous in this matter.

[Guest shiloh357]

shiloh357, on 23 June 2011 - 03:16 PM, said:

I did not say it did not happen. I said overall it does not happen. That is 1 million people out of a population of 310 million.

That's 1,000,000 people. That is nearly the population of my city. I could not imagine nearly my whole city being denied employment.

Yes, but like I said, it is 1 Milloin vs. 310 million. You are trying to make it appear that it happens on a grander scale. Like I said, most businesses in the US are extremely careful to avoid the very appearnce of impropriety escpecially where descrimination is concerned. Restauraunts and other service industry companies from the floor clerk to middle management to corporate managment have strict policies against workplace discrimination and they post those policies for all employees to see. They cannot (especially in this economy) afford expesive lawsuits and they cannot absorb the loss in customer patronage over something like that. I even attend a Christian university and it is a known fact that there are gay students on campus. I am a 2nd semester junior and in all my time there, there has never been one reported event of discrimination or bullying. No one was denied anything that was available to any other student.

Most people in this day and age bend over backward to be tolerant and respectful to homosexuals. I have worked FOR homosexuals. They were managers and supervisors. But if we listen to the crock of crap you are trying peddle, the United States is just a seething pot of hate and discrimination.

It overall, does not happen? You make it sound insignificant, but 1,000,000 people is in fact significant, especially in a poor economy.

Of course it is significant, it how is not enough to be the epdidemic. In fact, according to you the overall trend is really in their favor and I have alsso found that complaints brought by homosexuals in our courts usually end up in victories in their favor. So they are not hurting as bad as you want to make it seem. You are trying to blow something up to be more than it really is. Again, 1,000,000 out of 310,000,000 shows that we as Americans are generally very kind to homosexuals. We have some bad apples, but they do not represent the majority as you have inadverantly demonstrated.

Cry about bullying? People can end up dead. I had friends, who are now DEAD. I know many people who had friends, who are now DEAD. When someone is dead, it in fact matters. People get KILLED for being gay. Nothing is going to bring that person back from being dead, when they killed themselves after the hatred they faced. Or, were assaulted, or killed.

I understand that and I don't condone any of that and neither do most Americans.

They brought it upon themselves? No. If you get robbed, you didn't bring it upon yourself by having possessions. If you are assaulted, you didn't bring it upon yourself. If a woman gets raped, she didn't 'bring it upon herself'. I really, really doubt in any of those circumstances you'd blame the victim.

Well, it depends on the situation.

If you were neglectful and left your house unlocked, or got on to facebook and twitter and broadcast to your friends and acquaintances you were going on vacation for two weeks, and you got robbed, then yes, you pretty much brought it on yourself.

If a scantily-dressed woman walks alone down a city sidewalk late at night, she is bringing it upon herself.

If one is gay, they would be well advised to keep it to themselves, if they don't want to risk being bullied or even killed. That is unfortunately the state of the world we live in. That is why reaching them with the gospel is so important. When they are delivered it solves a whole lot of problems.

You are blaming gays for being bullied and driven to suicide because they 'brought it upon themselves'. You 'don't condone' it, but you are making justifications for it. After all, if they weren't gay, or people didn't know about it, they wouldn't be bullied and driven to suicide, right?

BE, we live in a broken world. We live in world where hate and violence git each other like a hand in a glove and some people cannot express themselves without irrational, seething hatred. Unfortunately, they express themselves in violent means. There is nothing justifiable about it. Nothing rational or good in anyway. It is deplorable. But that is the world we live in.

Do they also bring it upon themselves when they are assaulted, denied employment, denied service, or murdered?

I am not saying that it is the case in every instance, but generally speaking, yes. There is a lot of wisdom in using discretion in what you reveal about yourself. In the homosexual movement there is a militant element that wants to be loud and proud and they make it harder for the gay people who do not share their militant agenda. There are homosexuals who just want to live in relative peace and harmony with everyone else. But the "movement" makes it harder for them. They bring it not only on themselves, but on the ones who don't share in their militant dreams.

They uphold the The Constitution. Everyone has the right to pursue happiness.

that is the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution.

It just so happens that part of the case law in Loving vs Virginia, is that marriage is a right. Marriage is part of pursuing happiness.

Rights are guaranteed, though. Marriage is not a guarantee. There is no way the government can guarantee that you will be married. Marriage is a choice, a consentual act. Again, you are not citing the Constitution. You are citing the Declaration of Independence.

The hatred and bigotry that gays face does not bring them closer to God. When people make justifications for violence that gays face, like you did when you said they 'bring it upon themselves', you do nothing to separate yourself from the people who do the violence.

I did not justify anything llike bullying. I simply stated an observable reality. I did not say they deserved it and I did not advocate for those commit the violence agasint them. But the truth is, they need to practice more discretion. It would be far more wise on their part for the time being. Maybe the day will come when they will be able to flaunt it the streets but that day has not come, yet.

You do far, far more harm than good trying to reach homosexuals with what you've said. You don't show love. Making justifications for violence against gays doesn't show God's love. If you really loved them as Children of God, would you tell them "Hey, I know you got beat up when you were a kid, and you've been denied service for being gay, and you've had issues in advancing in your job... But you brought it upon yourself."

That does not show compassion, empathy, or love. It's not right that gays face any of that bullying, or violence, or discrimination. Saying you 'don't condone it', and then justifying it in your next breath does nothing to separate you from those people.

How many people do you think you drive away? How many gays do you think look at stuff like what you say, and then see every bully, every person that treated them inhumanely? With the industry I work in I end up getting a disproportionate amount of gay customers, and work with a lot of gay people. They don't make a distinction. They don't listen to people like yourself. What you say ends up reinforcing what the whole LGBT movement was founded for.

You have done nothing but mischaracterize what I said.

The supremie act of love for them is to bring them to Jesus. I have never said they should be beat up, nor have I said those do are right in doing so. Your problem is that you are carnal in your approach. Homosexuality is a spiritual problem and it has a spirtual remedy and that is the blood of Jesus. They need to be brought to the cross and have the burden lifted and be set free from this spiritual bondage. That is what it is, in reallity.

[~candice~]

if you would like to PM me i would be glad to point you in the direction of gay affirming churches that the youth in my area often are interested in. they can offer you a better explanation than I about homosexuality and the bible. if nothing else, it would be an interesting discussion.

Teen, I've likely already read the pro gay argument they have offered. I have read many many many. But none of them measure up to the bible and ultimately need to be rejected. We can discuss it here if you like no need to PM.

Teen eventually as a Christian you are going to need to stand on your own feet on this issue, research what the bible really says about the issue, and project that truth in everything you do, from the way you evangelise, the way you pray, the way you vote, the way you give advise to others. Honestly, have you done this, or do you rely on arguments that claim that opposing gay marriage is discrimination and what could be wrong with love in any form?

I'm enjoying this discussion. Keep serving Him with a pure and honest heart

[Guest TeenTitan19]

look up a website called religioustolerance. that can more succinctly explain my thoughts on those bible passages. as far as you are concerned, I am happy that you are living the life you desire. however, research indicates more and more the fluidity of SOME peoples' sexuality, indicating that we are all partly homosexual and party heterosexual. As you matured you may have discovered that you were more heterosexual than homosexual. i dont know. but that doesn't give you the right to tell others who homosexual that they are perverts, etc. and say theyre lives are not complete (just as i do not say your life is not complete). and as for the "shoving down the throat portion": religious entities are becoming more and more involved in politics, etc. and trying to impose upon the world "christian standards". If i am a buddhist (which many are) then our GOD has no bearing on their lives whatsoever and therefore our teachings should no be imposed upon them as the "be all end all". that is where i am coming from.