Why the Same-Sex Marriage Experiment Will Not Work

[Guest TeenTitan19]

candice: im pretty sure by being here and voicing my opinion i am stating my stance on the issue... even tho im sitting down LOL; oh and i suggested the PM because of rules blocking me from linking URLS and the like.

Edited June 23, 2011 by TeenTitan19

[~candice~]

look up a website called religioustolerance. that can more succinctly explain my thoughts on those bible passages. as far as you are concerned, I am happy that you are living the life you desire. however, research indicates more and more the fluidity of SOME peoples' sexuality, indicating that we are all partly homosexual and party heterosexual. As you matured you may have discovered that you were more heterosexual than homosexual. i dont know. but that doesn't give you the right to tell others who homosexual that they are perverts, etc. and say theyre lives are not complete (just as i do not say your life is not complete). and as for the "shoving down the throat portion": religious entities are becoming more and more involved in politics, etc. and trying to impose upon the world "christian standards". If i am a buddhist (which many are) then our GOD has no bearing on their lives whatsoever and therefore our teachings should no be imposed upon them as the "be all end all". that is where i am coming from.

No, I did not mature and realise I was straight. Go read my testimony .

I can't help but notice that your argument is purely secular, I wonder if you couldn't make a pro-gay argument from only the bible?

I understand secular literature on the fluidity of sexuality, but think about this for a minute, it really does not support your argument. IF sexuality is so fluid, then it is possible to influence it, and return to a sexual expression that honours the Lord. This really means that people who are gay can choose to return to His ways, and that they are not stuck or unfairly discriminated against.

I would like you to point out where I ever called a homosexual a pervert. I never have and you will never be able to quote me because such a phrase was not uttered by me. Everyone's life is incomplete until they return to the Lord fully and walk in His ways.

[Guest TeenTitan19]

bad wording on my part: YOU never called anyone a pervery. but many people do, and that's what I was referring to. I have already stated the website religioustolerance can argue, for the most part but not completely, my views on the bible and homosexuality. But as an example to show you that I can argue from a nonsecular POV: Leviticus 18:22 or whatever the verse is. leviticus states a myriad of things as being "unclean." such as eating shellfish, touching pigskin (football anyone), wearing polyester. religious institutions disregard these passages in the same book but choose to pick out verse 22. I think it's ridiculous and if one is to be ignored, than the rest should be as well. There is also much speculation that David (as in goliath david) was gay, but that's another argument that im not as well versed in.

[OldEnglishSheepdog]

look up a website called religioustolerance. that can more succinctly explain my thoughts on those bible passages. as far as you are concerned, I am happy that you are living the life you desire. however, research indicates more and more the fluidity of SOME peoples' sexuality, indicating that we are all partly homosexual and party heterosexual. As you matured you may have discovered that you were more heterosexual than homosexual. i dont know. but that doesn't give you the right to tell others who homosexual that they are perverts, etc. and say theyre lives are not complete (just as i do not say your life is not complete). and as for the "shoving down the throat portion": religious entities are becoming more and more involved in politics, etc. and trying to impose upon the world "christian standards". If i am a buddhist (which many are) then our GOD has no bearing on their lives whatsoever and therefore our teachings should no be imposed upon them as the "be all end all". that is where i am coming from.

Hello TeenTitan19,

I have to challenge the assertion that you can be a homosexual and still be saved, for the following reasons:

Homosexuality, as in, the practice of homosexual contact, itself is a sin,

[Guest TeenTitan19]

and noticed i mentioned that people lean one way or another. I was stating that those who lean heavily on the homosexual side of the balance should not be judged just because someone such as yourself was closer to center and is "fluid" in their sexuality. I was NOT stating that all people are fluid. sorry if there was a misunderstanding. and just as an added note, it has been proven that "ex-gay" ministries do more psychological harm to people than good.

[Guest TeenTitan19]

look up a website called religioustolerance. that can more succinctly explain my thoughts on those bible passages. as far as you are concerned, I am happy that you are living the life you desire. however, research indicates more and more the fluidity of SOME peoples' sexuality, indicating that we are all partly homosexual and party heterosexual. As you matured you may have discovered that you were more heterosexual than homosexual. i dont know. but that doesn't give you the right to tell others who homosexual that they are perverts, etc. and say theyre lives are not complete (just as i do not say your life is not complete). and as for the "shoving down the throat portion": religious entities are becoming more and more involved in politics, etc. and trying to impose upon the world "christian standards". If i am a buddhist (which many are) then our GOD has no bearing on their lives whatsoever and therefore our teachings should no be imposed upon them as the "be all end all". that is where i am coming from.

Hello TeenTitan19,

I have to challenge the assertion that you can be a homosexual and still be saved, for the following reasons:

Homosexuality, as in, the practice of homosexual contact, itself is a sin,

[~candice~]

bad wording on my part: YOU never called anyone a pervery. but many people do, and that's what I was referring to. I have already stated the website religioustolerance can argue, for the most part but not completely, my views on the bible and homosexuality. But as an example to show you that I can argue from a nonsecular POV: Leviticus 18:22 or whatever the verse is. leviticus states a myriad of things as being "unclean." such as eating shellfish, touching pigskin (football anyone), wearing polyester. religious institutions disregard these passages in the same book but choose to pick out verse 22. I think it's ridiculous and if one is to be ignored, than the rest should be as well. There is also much speculation that David (as in goliath david) was gay, but that's another argument that im not as well versed in.

Ahh the good old David & Jonathan argument. They weren't gay. They simply loved one another as brothers would. The bible does not support another reading.

As for your reading of Leviticus, I will point out that this is the law given to Israel during a theocratic reign. There are three parts to this law, the moral law, ceremonial law, and civil law. The civil law is not for us and ceased being applicable when Israel stopped being a theocracy. The ceremonial law (relating to priests, etc) is now permenantly fulfilled by our High Priest, Jesus Christ. That leaves the moral law, and most of this moral law is repeated in the New Testament. Homosexuality is such an issue.

His design for marriage, between a man and a woman, was set in stone with Adam and Eve, i.e. it occured long before the Levitical law. This design was reinforced by Jesus well after the Levitical law. And prohibition against homosexuality is repeated many times throughout the New Testament.

So I really so NO wriggle room here. I urge you to not just make passing reference to websites that might make pro gay arguments... get your hands dirty and dig into the scripture for yourself and see what the bible actually says, because one day you are going to be called to account for this.

[~candice~]

and noticed i mentioned that people lean one way or another. I was stating that those who lean heavily on the homosexual side of the balance should not be judged just because someone such as yourself was closer to center and is "fluid" in their sexuality. I was NOT stating that all people are fluid. sorry if there was a misunderstanding. and just as an added note, it has been proven that "ex-gay" ministries do more psychological harm to people than good.

Unfortunately this is where you fall down. The exact opposite has been shown. No harm is done in faith based sexual rehabilitation type ministries. Not even secular studies can demonstrate this.

Sorry but now you appear to be clutching at straws. Do you have any peer reviewed journal articles to cite, or any scripture to quote, that can support your claims?

[~candice~]

look up a website called religioustolerance. that can more succinctly explain my thoughts on those bible passages. as far as you are concerned, I am happy that you are living the life you desire. however, research indicates more and more the fluidity of SOME peoples' sexuality, indicating that we are all partly homosexual and party heterosexual. As you matured you may have discovered that you were more heterosexual than homosexual. i dont know. but that doesn't give you the right to tell others who homosexual that they are perverts, etc. and say theyre lives are not complete (just as i do not say your life is not complete). and as for the "shoving down the throat portion": religious entities are becoming more and more involved in politics, etc. and trying to impose upon the world "christian standards". If i am a buddhist (which many are) then our GOD has no bearing on their lives whatsoever and therefore our teachings should no be imposed upon them as the "be all end all". that is where i am coming from.

Hello TeenTitan19,

I have to challenge the assertion that you can be a homosexual and still be saved, for the following reasons:

Homosexuality, as in, the practice of homosexual contact, itself is a sin, "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders" (1 Cor. 6:9), so when Jesus said: "go, and sin no more" (John 8:11), I think there is a distinct difference in what we're taking that to mean.

To sin no more doesn't simply mean that you stop practicing sin, it means that as a result of the redemptive work you stop being identified as sin, "For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" (2 Cor. 5:21).

So when we become a Christian we die to ourselves so it's not we who live but Christ in us, "have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me" (Galatians 2:20). "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new" (2 Cor. 5:17).

The old things that pass away are the things that Christ paid for on the cross, specifically sin. So if we become a new creature, dead to our old selves, dead to sin, and alive in Christ then our identity cannot be founded in the things that have passed away. If we believe scripture, that we're supposed to pick up our cross daily and let Christ live while we die, then if Christ is not a homosexual (and most assuredly He's not) then neither can we, being dead to our selves, ground our identity in such things.

"But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin" (1 John 3:5).

So if someone is saved and continues to battle with homosexual inclinations, we can rest assured that, "No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it" (1 Cor. 10:13), so God will give them strength to preserver

[Guest shiloh357]

im pretty sure the word "homosexual" did not occur until the 19th century. just saying. and most theological study points to corinthians meaning the temple prostitution that was prevalent at the time.

Temple prostitution in Corinth was heaveiy homosexual. Mlale prostitutes would dress as women and take on effiminate roles in order to attract sailors who had been on the ocean for months and were not particularlly selective as to their mode of sexual outlet.