Is Acquiring The Holy Spirit equivalent to being Born Again?

[oak]

oak,

Acquiring the Holy Spirit is equivalent to being born again.

How will one know that they have the Holy Sprit ? They will speak in tongues.

I know the word says that this is evidence, but this is not the only evidence, nor is it required evidence.

Agreed. Tongues is a gift from the Holy Spirit yes. But it is most definitely not a requirement of having the Holy Spirit within. To have the Holy Spirit within, all we need do is to do what Jesus commands of us "Love Me and Obey Me".

Do that and the Holy Spirit is evident in any beleiver....

Actually it is the initial evidence for receiving the Holy Ghost. There are two functions of tongues, the initial sign of receiving the Holy Ghost (Acts 2:4, Acts 10:46, Acts 19:6) and there is the gift of speaking in tongues (1Corinthians 12:10, 1Corinthians 14.) Just like you have to have initial faith to come to God, but there is also the gift of faith (1Corinthians 12:9.) The gift of tongues is for the edifying of ones self (1Corinthains 14:4), but tongues as the initial evidence is the Spirit and our spirit crying "Father" (Romans 8:15; Galatians 4:6) so the Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God (Romans 8:16.) So then everyone that is born of the Spirit you will "hear the sound thereof" (John 3:8) Speaking in tongues as the initial evidence is a symbol of Gods complete control over us (James 3:3) taking control of the member that no man can tame (James 3:8) Speaking in tongues is the Spirit binding the strong man of this house we call our body so that he can enter (Matthew 12:29)

If it were true that speaking in tongues if evidence of the indwelling of the Spirit then theres not a whole lot of people who have that. The 'tongues' spoken in Acts when the Spirit flowed over them were actual languages such as Greek, notice it says in Acts 2 that men from every nation were there and heard in their native tongue. These men were not just there in Jerusalem as an everyday occurance they were there 'as devout me from every nation under heaven', they were there because they had come for the Passover. The pouring out of the Holy Spirit was fulfilling the prophecy that God would do such a thing in the latter days. There is no litmus test for having the indwelling of the Spirit except by the fruit they produces.

shalom,

Mizz

When you speak in tongues you may speak in a language that you have never learned before like in acts chapter 2. or you may speak in a language that no man understands (1Corinthians 14:2.) Now if they wanted every nation to hear what they were preaching all they would have had to do is speak in Greek, because that was the universal language of their time. Speaking in tongues was part of the promise of receiving the Holy Ghost (Acts 2:33) and Peter also said when the people were mocking them saying that they were drunk he told them that "THIS is THAT which was spoken of by the prophet Joel" He was talking about the tongues they were mocking saying that "THIS(tongues) is THAT(pouring out of the Spirit) which the prophet Joel spoke of"

You people amaze me, and in a loving way. This is extremly unusual, since right now I'm handeling big conflicts. But your earnestness of truth does melt my heart. As far as tongues are concerned it's a bit above my pay grade. One of my favorite moderators, Watchman, once made a statement that tongues is / are no longer a requirement, quoting scripture. I have to talk to him again, but if you get to him befor me, I'm all ears.

[mizzdy]

oak,

Acquiring the Holy Spirit is equivalent to being born again.

How will one know that they have the Holy Sprit ? They will speak in tongues.

I know the word says that this is evidence, but this is not the only evidence, nor is it required evidence.

Agreed. Tongues is a gift from the Holy Spirit yes. But it is most definitely not a requirement of having the Holy Spirit within. To have the Holy Spirit within, all we need do is to do what Jesus commands of us "Love Me and Obey Me".

Do that and the Holy Spirit is evident in any beleiver....

Actually it is the initial evidence for receiving the Holy Ghost. There are two functions of tongues, the initial sign of receiving the Holy Ghost (Acts 2:4, Acts 10:46, Acts 19:6) and there is the gift of speaking in tongues (1Corinthians 12:10, 1Corinthians 14.) Just like you have to have initial faith to come to God, but there is also the gift of faith (1Corinthians 12:9.) The gift of tongues is for the edifying of ones self (1Corinthains 14:4), but tongues as the initial evidence is the Spirit and our spirit crying "Father" (Romans 8:15; Galatians 4:6) so the Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God (Romans 8:16.) So then everyone that is born of the Spirit you will "hear the sound thereof" (John 3:8) Speaking in tongues as the initial evidence is a symbol of Gods complete control over us (James 3:3) taking control of the member that no man can tame (James 3:8) Speaking in tongues is the Spirit binding the strong man of this house we call our body so that he can enter (Matthew 12:29)

If it were true that speaking in tongues if evidence of the indwelling of the Spirit then theres not a whole lot of people who have that. The 'tongues' spoken in Acts when the Spirit flowed over them were actual languages such as Greek, notice it says in Acts 2 that men from every nation were there and heard in their native tongue. These men were not just there in Jerusalem as an everyday occurance they were there 'as devout me from every nation under heaven', they were there because they had come for the Passover. The pouring out of the Holy Spirit was fulfilling the prophecy that God would do such a thing in the latter days. There is no litmus test for having the indwelling of the Spirit except by the fruit they produces.

shalom,

Mizz

When you speak in tongues you may speak in a language that you have never learned before like in acts chapter 2. or you may speak in a language that no man understands (1Corinthians 14:2.) Now if they wanted every nation to hear what they were preaching all they would have had to do is speak in Greek, because that was the universal language of their time. Speaking in tongues was part of the promise of receiving the Holy Ghost (Acts 2:33) and Peter also said when the people were mocking them saying that they were drunk he told them that "THIS is THAT which was spoken of by the prophet Joel" He was talking about the tongues they were mocking saying that "THIS(tongues) is THAT(pouring out of the Spirit) which the prophet Joel spoke of"

True that Greek was widely spoken yet it was not the only language spoken and from Acts we know that the languages spoken from those who had the pouring out of the Spirit spoke in a wide variety of languages. 'Everyone heard in their own language' it was the dialect of those who witnessed the speaking that we can use to show the various ones. 'Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? And how is it that we hear, each on our own language in which we were born? Pathians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia...' the list goes on as to the dialects heard from those who had been given the Holy Spirit. The word language in verse 8 of Acts chpt 2 means dialect not just words spoken. Theres no denying the plain speech or words of the meaning of languages in Acts 2, they were not some weird languages no one knew, but languages in which those present could understand. No where in verse 33 does it say there was a promised language but that the Spirit would be poured out so that all could see and hear, or see with their own eyes the miracles and fruit of His word so they could hear in their own languages the word of God and obey it. Those men and women who heard were there at the temple for Passover, they would have been there following the commandment for all males to be in Jerusalem for the Passover. They were not mere travelors or passerby but part of the scattered Israelites who at the time became grafted back into the body when they believed the message Peter preached to them.

Some naturally thought these guys were drunk most were 'amazed and perplexed' and yes it was a fulfillment of prophecy otherwise Peter would never have said what he did, he knew the scriptures pointed to exactly what had just happened. How many were added to the body that day because they heard in their own languages the message of the kingdom and since then?! It was not the people yelling or mocking the prophecy but Peter explaining of its fulfillment.

According to 1 Cor. 14 the gift of prophecy is the greatest gift, simply because its speaking, teaching, telling of Gods word, if there were ever a litmus test wouldn't it be prophecy since its the greatest gift of the Spirit? The word tongue in 1 Cor. 14 doesn't denote that someone is speaking anything in other than a language the person doesn't understand and has been given that gift so His words can be made known. I personally have never spoken anything in another tongue via the Holy Spirit nor did I ever know anyone until a week or so ago but it confirmed what I have thought all along, that the person is given by the Spirit the ways and means to communicate to someone else what God wants them to hear. A woman at our congregation, our congregation as a whole walks the abortion line, and this woman knew this Spanish speakng woman needed her help but she does not speak a lick of Spanish, she felt the pushing of the Spirit and was able to talk to her in Spanish just enough to help this woman and saved that babies life. Thats how I see the gift of the Spirit.

shalom,

Mizz

[Fez]

oak,

Acquiring the Holy Spirit is equivalent to being born again.

How will one know that they have the Holy Sprit ? They will speak in tongues.

Nope you are wrong...

1Co 12:7 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.

1Co 12:8 For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit,

1Co 12:9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit,

1Co 12:10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

1Co 12:11 All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.

If as you maintain, speaking in tongues is akin to being born again, how then do you explain the other gifts?

Co 12:28 And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.

1Co 12:29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?

1Co 12:30 Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?

1Co 12:31 But earnestly desire the higher gifts. And I will show you a still more excellent way.

The scripture clearly shows you are off track with your tongues theory.

[Guest]

Charity never faileth:

but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail;

whether there be tongues, they shall cease;

whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 1 Corinthians 13:1

_________

oak,

Acquiring the Holy Spirit is equivalent to being born again.

How will one know that they have the Holy Sprit ? They will speak in tongues.

Nope you are wrong...

1Co 12:7 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.

1Co 12:8 For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit,

1Co 12:9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit,

1Co 12:10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

1Co 12:11 All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.

If as you maintain, speaking in tongues is akin to being born again, how then do you explain the other gifts?

Co 12:28 And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.

1Co 12:29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?

1Co 12:30 Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?

1Co 12:31 But earnestly desire the higher gifts. And I will show you a still more excellent way.

The scripture clearly shows you are off track with your tongues theory.

For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy;

I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit,

to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones. Isaiah 57:15

[other one]

oak,

Acquiring the Holy Spirit is equivalent to being born again.

How will one know that they have the Holy Sprit ? They will speak in tongues.

I know the word says that this is evidence, but this is not the only evidence, nor is it required evidence.

Agreed. Tongues is a gift from the Holy Spirit yes. But it is most definitely not a requirement of having the Holy Spirit within. To have the Holy Spirit within, all we need do is to do what Jesus commands of us "Love Me and Obey Me".

Do that and the Holy Spirit is evident in any beleiver....

Actually it is the initial evidence for receiving the Holy Ghost. There are two functions of tongues, the initial sign of receiving the Holy Ghost (Acts 2:4, Acts 10:46, Acts 19:6) and there is the gift of speaking in tongues (1Corinthians 12:10, 1Corinthians 14.) Just like you have to have initial faith to come to God, but there is also the gift of faith (1Corinthians 12:9.) The gift of tongues is for the edifying of ones self (1Corinthains 14:4), but tongues as the initial evidence is the Spirit and our spirit crying "Father" (Romans 8:15; Galatians 4:6) so the Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God (Romans 8:16.) So then everyone that is born of the Spirit you will "hear the sound thereof" (John 3:8) Speaking in tongues as the initial evidence is a symbol of Gods complete control over us (James 3:3) taking control of the member that no man can tame (James 3:8) Speaking in tongues is the Spirit binding the strong man of this house we call our body so that he can enter (Matthew 12:29)

If it were true that speaking in tongues if evidence of the indwelling of the Spirit then theres not a whole lot of people who have that. The 'tongues' spoken in Acts when the Spirit flowed over them were actual languages such as Greek, notice it says in Acts 2 that men from every nation were there and heard in their native tongue. These men were not just there in Jerusalem as an everyday occurance they were there 'as devout me from every nation under heaven', they were there because they had come for the Passover. The pouring out of the Holy Spirit was fulfilling the prophecy that God would do such a thing in the latter days. There is no litmus test for having the indwelling of the Spirit except by the fruit they produces.

shalom,

Mizz

When you speak in tongues you may speak in a language that you have never learned before like in acts chapter 2. or you may speak in a language that no man understands (1Corinthians 14:2.) Now if they wanted every nation to hear what they were preaching all they would have had to do is speak in Greek, because that was the universal language of their time. Speaking in tongues was part of the promise of receiving the Holy Ghost (Acts 2:33) and Peter also said when the people were mocking them saying that they were drunk he told them that "THIS is THAT which was spoken of by the prophet Joel" He was talking about the tongues they were mocking saying that "THIS(tongues) is THAT(pouring out of the Spirit) which the prophet Joel spoke of"

True that Greek was widely spoken yet it was not the only language spoken and from Acts we know that the languages spoken from those who had the pouring out of the Spirit spoke in a wide variety of languages. 'Everyone heard in their own language' it was the dialect of those who witnessed the speaking that we can use to show the various ones. 'Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? And how is it that we hear, each on our own language in which we were born? Pathians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia...' the list goes on as to the dialects heard from those who had been given the Holy Spirit. The word language in verse 8 of Acts chpt 2 means dialect not just words spoken. Theres no denying the plain speech or words of the meaning of languages in Acts 2, they were not some weird languages no one knew, but languages in which those present could understand. No where in verse 33 does it say there was a promised language but that the Spirit would be poured out so that all could see and hear, or see with their own eyes the miracles and fruit of His word so they could hear in their own languages the word of God and obey it. Those men and women who heard were there at the temple for Passover, they would have been there following the commandment for all males to be in Jerusalem for the Passover. They were not mere travelors or passerby but part of the scattered Israelites who at the time became grafted back into the body when they believed the message Peter preached to them.

Some naturally thought these guys were drunk most were 'amazed and perplexed' and yes it was a fulfillment of prophecy otherwise Peter would never have said what he did, he knew the scriptures pointed to exactly what had just happened. How many were added to the body that day because they heard in their own languages the message of the kingdom and since then?! It was not the people yelling or mocking the prophecy but Peter explaining of its fulfillment.

According to 1 Cor. 14 the gift of prophecy is the greatest gift, simply because its speaking, teaching, telling of Gods word, if there were ever a litmus test wouldn't it be prophecy since its the greatest gift of the Spirit? The word tongue in 1 Cor. 14 doesn't denote that someone is speaking anything in other than a language the person doesn't understand and has been given that gift so His words can be made known. I personally have never spoken anything in another tongue via the Holy Spirit nor did I ever know anyone until a week or so ago but it confirmed what I have thought all along, that the person is given by the Spirit the ways and means to communicate to someone else what God wants them to hear. A woman at our congregation, our congregation as a whole walks the abortion line, and this woman knew this Spanish speakng woman needed her help but she does not speak a lick of Spanish, she felt the pushing of the Spirit and was able to talk to her in Spanish just enough to help this woman and saved that babies life. Thats how I see the gift of the Spirit.

shalom,

Mizz

1. I said that when speaking in tongues you may speak in an earthly language like Greek that you have never learned before, or you can speak in an unknown tongue.

2. God gave all of the people at pentecost in acts 2 the gift of tongues? If so then where were the interpreters? because it says if a person who has the gift of tongues speaks in tongues let their be an interpreter if not then let him keep silent, and speak to himself and God (1Corinthians 14:27-28.) there was no interpreter because that was the initial sign of receiving the Holy Ghost and there doesnt need to be an interpreter, it is our spirit witnessing with the Spirit, that we are the children of God, crying Father (Romans 8:15; Galatians 4:6; Romans 8:16.)

3. In acts 2 they were mocking that the people were speaking in tongues (Acts 2:11-13)saying that they must be drunk or something, but Peter said that they were not drunk, and that "this (speaking in tongues) was that (outpouring of the Holy Spirit) that the prophet Jole spoke about (Acts 2:14-16.)

4. There are two functions of tongues, the intitial sign of receiving the Holy Ghost (Mark 16:17; John 3:8; Acts 10:46), and the gift of speaking in tongues (1Corinthians 12:10; 1Corinthians 14.)

5. I have spoken in tongues as the initial sign of receiving the Holy Ghost so no matter what you say it will not sway me, but I have no spoken in tongues concerning the gift of speaking in tongues yet. Just like I have had initial faith to come to God, but I have not had the gift of faith yet (1Corinthians 12:9)

You use Mark 16:17 as a verse about everyone speaking in tongues....... have you tried the snakes and drinking the poison yet????

[Fez]

oak,

Acquiring the Holy Spirit is equivalent to being born again.

How will one know that they have the Holy Sprit ? They will speak in tongues.

I know the word says that this is evidence, but this is not the only evidence, nor is it required evidence.

Agreed. Tongues is a gift from the Holy Spirit yes. But it is most definitely not a requirement of having the Holy Spirit within. To have the Holy Spirit within, all we need do is to do what Jesus commands of us "Love Me and Obey Me".

Do that and the Holy Spirit is evident in any beleiver....

Actually it is the initial evidence for receiving the Holy Ghost. There are two functions of tongues, the initial sign of receiving the Holy Ghost (Acts 2:4, Acts 10:46, Acts 19:6) and there is the gift of speaking in tongues (1Corinthians 12:10, 1Corinthians 14.) Just like you have to have initial faith to come to God, but there is also the gift of faith (1Corinthians 12:9.) The gift of tongues is for the edifying of ones self (1Corinthains 14:4), but tongues as the initial evidence is the Spirit and our spirit crying "Father" (Romans 8:15; Galatians 4:6) so the Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God (Romans 8:16.) So then everyone that is born of the Spirit you will "hear the sound thereof" (John 3:8) Speaking in tongues as the initial evidence is a symbol of Gods complete control over us (James 3:3) taking control of the member that no man can tame (James 3:8) Speaking in tongues is the Spirit binding the strong man of this house we call our body so that he can enter (Matthew 12:29)

If it were true that speaking in tongues if evidence of the indwelling of the Spirit then theres not a whole lot of people who have that. The 'tongues' spoken in Acts when the Spirit flowed over them were actual languages such as Greek, notice it says in Acts 2 that men from every nation were there and heard in their native tongue. These men were not just there in Jerusalem as an everyday occurance they were there 'as devout me from every nation under heaven', they were there because they had come for the Passover. The pouring out of the Holy Spirit was fulfilling the prophecy that God would do such a thing in the latter days. There is no litmus test for having the indwelling of the Spirit except by the fruit they produces.

shalom,

Mizz

When you speak in tongues you may speak in a language that you have never learned before like in acts chapter 2. or you may speak in a language that no man understands (1Corinthians 14:2.) Now if they wanted every nation to hear what they were preaching all they would have had to do is speak in Greek, because that was the universal language of their time. Speaking in tongues was part of the promise of receiving the Holy Ghost (Acts 2:33) and Peter also said when the people were mocking them saying that they were drunk he told them that "THIS is THAT which was spoken of by the prophet Joel" He was talking about the tongues they were mocking saying that "THIS(tongues) is THAT(pouring out of the Spirit) which the prophet Joel spoke of"

True that Greek was widely spoken yet it was not the only language spoken and from Acts we know that the languages spoken from those who had the pouring out of the Spirit spoke in a wide variety of languages. 'Everyone heard in their own language' it was the dialect of those who witnessed the speaking that we can use to show the various ones. 'Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? And how is it that we hear, each on our own language in which we were born? Pathians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia...' the list goes on as to the dialects heard from those who had been given the Holy Spirit. The word language in verse 8 of Acts chpt 2 means dialect not just words spoken. Theres no denying the plain speech or words of the meaning of languages in Acts 2, they were not some weird languages no one knew, but languages in which those present could understand. No where in verse 33 does it say there was a promised language but that the Spirit would be poured out so that all could see and hear, or see with their own eyes the miracles and fruit of His word so they could hear in their own languages the word of God and obey it. Those men and women who heard were there at the temple for Passover, they would have been there following the commandment for all males to be in Jerusalem for the Passover. They were not mere travelors or passerby but part of the scattered Israelites who at the time became grafted back into the body when they believed the message Peter preached to them.

Some naturally thought these guys were drunk most were 'amazed and perplexed' and yes it was a fulfillment of prophecy otherwise Peter would never have said what he did, he knew the scriptures pointed to exactly what had just happened. How many were added to the body that day because they heard in their own languages the message of the kingdom and since then?! It was not the people yelling or mocking the prophecy but Peter explaining of its fulfillment.

According to 1 Cor. 14 the gift of prophecy is the greatest gift, simply because its speaking, teaching, telling of Gods word, if there were ever a litmus test wouldn't it be prophecy since its the greatest gift of the Spirit? The word tongue in 1 Cor. 14 doesn't denote that someone is speaking anything in other than a language the person doesn't understand and has been given that gift so His words can be made known. I personally have never spoken anything in another tongue via the Holy Spirit nor did I ever know anyone until a week or so ago but it confirmed what I have thought all along, that the person is given by the Spirit the ways and means to communicate to someone else what God wants them to hear. A woman at our congregation, our congregation as a whole walks the abortion line, and this woman knew this Spanish speakng woman needed her help but she does not speak a lick of Spanish, she felt the pushing of the Spirit and was able to talk to her in Spanish just enough to help this woman and saved that babies life. Thats how I see the gift of the Spirit.

shalom,

Mizz

1. I said that when speaking in tongues you may speak in an earthly language like Greek that you have never learned before, or you can speak in an unknown tongue.

2. God gave all of the people at pentecost in acts 2 the gift of tongues? If so then where were the interpreters? because it says if a person who has the gift of tongues speaks in tongues let their be an interpreter if not then let him keep silent, and speak to himself and God (1Corinthians 14:27-28.) there was no interpreter because that was the initial sign of receiving the Holy Ghost and there doesnt need to be an interpreter, it is our spirit witnessing with the Spirit, that we are the children of God, crying Father (Romans 8:15; Galatians 4:6; Romans 8:16.)

3. In acts 2 they were mocking that the people were speaking in tongues (Acts 2:11-13)saying that they must be drunk or something, but Peter said that they were not drunk, and that "this (speaking in tongues) was that (outpouring of the Holy Spirit) that the prophet Jole spoke about (Acts 2:14-16.)

4. There are two functions of tongues, the intitial sign of receiving the Holy Ghost (Mark 16:17; John 3:8; Acts 10:46), and the gift of speaking in tongues (1Corinthians 12:10; 1Corinthians 14.)

5. I have spoken in tongues as the initial sign of receiving the Holy Ghost so no matter what you say it will not sway me, but I have no spoken in tongues concerning the gift of speaking in tongues yet. Just like I have had initial faith to come to God, but I have not had the gift of faith yet (1Corinthians 12:9)

You use Mark 16:17 as a verse about everyone speaking in tongues....... have you tried the snakes and drinking the poison yet????

Nope he cannot, because this is what he said?

I have no spoken in tongues concerning the gift of speaking in tongues yet. Just like I have had initial faith to come to God, but I have not had the gift of faith yet (1Corinthians 12:9)

Can you not see how retrospective that argument is? How can you have the Holy Spirit living in you, and have not faith?

By saying this you are arguing not from the foundation of the rock, but that of sand....

What is your foundation in Jesus if not that of faith? Surly you had to have faith to first believe? Surely you have to have faith to believe the Word and all it's mysteries not yet revealed, to believe in the promises already fulfilled, and those yet to be?

I don't quite get your reasoning....

[benny balerio]

Is Acquiring The Holy Spirit equivalent to being Born Again?

And the manifestations and signs of experiencing them.

First I believe being Born Again is the same as acquiring the Holy Spirit. Why? Due to Christ saying to Nicodemus: truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again of water and the Spirit, he cannot see the kingdom of God. John 3:5. I will also add that Christ adds that whoever believes in him [Christ] may have eternal life. John 3:15

This is straightforward enough but when I was baptized I was an infant. This act was done when I was not able to make my own decisions. My former priest said, that this was sufficient and repeating it may be a sin, though my friend and I are still considering going through the ritual.

Now the main concern if we accept that being Born Again or acquiring the Holy Spirit is the key to being saved what should we expect in terms of knowing and working out our faith that we feel we are on the right path. Could I just say I'm born again or that I will readily accept the Holy Spirit by the grace of God and then fold my hands and wait for changes like a renewed mind and heart? I think not because, I have to show God and plead with him to make me whole.

A Baptist article says the first sign is: Colossians 1:21-23a -- And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in [your] mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard..."

The article goes on to state. That a true Christian will persevere in faith come rain or shine till the very end [i am paraphrasing].There are many good points in this article. But, I feel in terms of signs they make another good, point that of course new born again believer's sin but it is no longer a theme in their lives. * Excerpted and/or adapted from an article in the July 1998, The Perilous Times.

Further to bolster, the activities of the Christians seeking the Spirit, St Seraphim, A Conversation" say's, testing our actions to see which receive grace from God. Trade till I come (Lk. 19:13), redeeming the time, because the days are evil (Eph. 5:16) My earthly father was a very angry and punitive man for which I have to forgive him, but he prayed fervently and I believe that he found that brought him Grace from God. Now with me a find that if I open my heart to righteousness, grace sometimes comes to me. On Good Friday, I was earnestly reading the service in Church and all of a sudden, I was in a trance like wave and Christ's sacrifice, really struck me and I was moved to tears and a feeling of love that I could not adequately express. But I was not able to hold on to it forever because it would burst me open.

What are your experiences in terms of being born again or when you feel the Spirit is alive in you? Do any of you have a consistent peace of Christ? Is there anything you've done to prompt it? Do you come upon times when you're in the wilderness but keep your Faith strong?

PS You're free to express any opinion you like including dissent but please put into a personal experience.

http://orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/wonderful.aspx St Serphim

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Introduction/truly.htm The Baptist article.

You Quote:

Now the main concern if we accept that being Born Again or acquiring the Holy Spirit is the key to being saved what should we expect in terms of knowing and working out our faith that we feel we are on the right path. Could I just say I'm born again or that I will readily accept the Holy Spirit by the grace of God and then fold my hands and wait for changes like a renewed mind and heart? I think not because, I have to show God and plead with him to make me whole.

My Reply:

You made me laugh because you reminded me of what happenned to me 33 years ago.

My father n law told me about being born again,..and I had no idea what this man was talking about!LOL

He said,..when it hits you,..you will know it!

Well it did hit me,..I couldn't keep my big mouth shut about jesus,..It was like I always had ants in my pants,..I could never keep still about Jesus and to this very day I still cannot shut up.

Some people thought I was sick in the head especially the old timers.

I lost more friends that I could count!

There were even some people who would act like they were christians too,..that is,..until they realized that your whole life is about Jesus,..some would even begin breathing fast,...some would be looking at their watch,..or twirling their fingers,...they were looking for the first excuse and the nearest exit to get away from you as fast as they could.

I Learned and realized that I could talk about any topic under the sun and it was no problem,..but When I said that Name...JESUS!....there is no name in heaven and earth that can effect a man in this way except that one name....Jesus!

When Jesus told that man not to tell nobody that He had just healed him,...and what was the first thing the man did?...He went and blabbed his mouth off to everybody!

Once you got Jesus in you,..you cannot keep your mouth shut!...Praise God!...Jesus is Lord!

Edited July 4, 2011 by benny balerio

[oak]

You Quote:

You made me laugh because you reminded me of what happenned to me 33 years ago.

My father n law told me about being born again,..and I had no idea what this man was talking about!LOL

He said,..when it hits you,..you will know it!

Well it did hit me,..I couldn't keep my big mouth shut about jesus,..It was like I always had ants in my pants,..I could never keep still about Jesus and to this very day I still cannot shut up.

Some people thought I was sick in the head especially the old timers.

I lost more friends that I could count!

There were even some people who would act like they were christians too,..that is,..until they realized that your whole life is about Jesus,..some would even begin breathing fast,...some would be looking at their watch,..or twirling their fingers,...they were looking for the first excuse and the nearest exit to get away from you as fast as they could.

I Learned and realized that I could talk about any topic under the sun and it was no problem,..but When I said that Name...JESUS!....there is no name in heaven and earth that can effect a man in this way except that one name....Jesus!

When Jesus told that man not to tell nobody that He had just healed him,...and what was the first thing the man did?...He went and blabbed his mouth off to everybody!

Once you got Jesus in you,..you cannot keep your mouth shut!...Praise God!...Jesus is Lord!

[mizzdy]

1. I said that when speaking in tongues you may speak in an earthly language like Greek that you have never learned before, or you can speak in an unknown tongue.

2. God gave all of the people at pentecost in acts 2 the gift of tongues? If so then where were the interpreters? because it says if a person who has the gift of tongues speaks in tongues let their be an interpreter if not then let him keep silent, and speak to himself and God (1Corinthians 14:27-28.) there was no interpreter because that was the initial sign of receiving the Holy Ghost and there doesnt need to be an interpreter, it is our spirit witnessing with the Spirit, that we are the children of God, crying Father (Romans 8:15; Galatians 4:6; Romans 8:16.)

3. In acts 2 they were mocking that the people were speaking in tongues (Acts 2:11-13)saying that they must be drunk or something, but Peter said that they were not drunk, and that "this (speaking in tongues) was that (outpouring of the Holy Spirit) that the prophet Jole spoke about (Acts 2:14-16.)

4. There are two functions of tongues, the intitial sign of receiving the Holy Ghost (Mark 16:17; John 3:8; Acts 10:46), and the gift of speaking in tongues (1Corinthians 12:10; 1Corinthians 14.)

5. I have spoken in tongues as the initial sign of receiving the Holy Ghost so no matter what you say it will not sway me, but I have no spoken in tongues concerning the gift of speaking in tongues yet. Just like I have had initial faith to come to God, but I have not had the gift of faith yet (1Corinthians 12:9)

In Acts 2 no one was in need of a translator, 'And when this sound occured, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in their own language. No where does it state it was an unknown language, perhaps to the ones speaking but that is the gift of the Spirit, its given to those in need of hearing His words in their own tongue, a message perhaps just for them from Him. So the person speaking may not know what they are saying but the person they are speaking to will. True some thought they had been drinking but then Peter steps up and gives his speech to those 'men of Judea and Jerusalem' and after he was done they were 'cut to the heart' and believed and they were added to the body. Notice that its the gift of the Holy Spirit but no where do we read that we must speak in tongues so all will know who has the Spirit of God within them.

There is no initial sign for having the indwelling of the Spirit, what is the signs are the fruit we bare because of the leading of the Spirit. Well hmm first you say you have spoken in tongues but then you say you have not, which is it? If you have faith then how are you waiting for the gift of faith? that doesn't make much sense to me.

Let's see what Mark 16 has to say, it doesn't say that speaking in tongues is the initial sign of anything but that 'these signs' meaning miracles, supernatural things, will be done, that one will see those things in those who are following and teaching His ways. They are the fruit of the Spirit not the 'proof' that one has the indwelling of the Spirit. Acts 5:12 tells us, 'And through the hands of the apostles many signs and wonders were done among the people. And they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch.' It is abundantly clear that they were operating under the indwelling of the Spirit, that apostles were showing forth the fruits of the Spirit. Not sure how John 3:8 fits into your thinking the speaking in tongues is proof of the Spirit.?

Acts 10:45-46 does not support the notion that speaking in tongues is the proof of the Spirit, certainly if one is speaking to someone in their native language without prior knowledge of it I would say the Spirit indeed is working within a person. Yet if we look hard at all the scriptures laid out what you are suggesting, the speaking in tongues is proof of the Spirit, for having been born again turns out to be false. Not every person who speaks suddenly in a foreign tongue unknown to them, speaks of Gods truth, that I know from personal experience. Just as being charitable and a 'good person' makes one a saved child of YHWH.

shalom,

Mizz

[KC02]

In Acts 8:12-17, we see some believers received the Holy Spirit AFTER they believed. However Paul makes is plain that when we are saved, God gives us a measure of His Spirit in our hearts (2 Cor. 1:22).

As the parable of the ten virgins suggests (Mat 25:1-13), we certainly can have different measures of the oil (Spirit). In any case, this is the way I see it.

For myself, I do not speak in tongues; however, I have been overtaken by God's joy, peace and love many times. A tent revival preacher once laid hands on me when I was 17 and I began to feel God's presence for the first time in my life. God's love even felt tangible.

There are deeper places in God, even if you have been saved for 50 years. When David wrote about the joy of the Lord being our strength, he wasn't talking metaphorically, he was talking about God's supernatural presence in his life.

Finally, we can't be saved without the Spirit living in our soul, but we can have more and more of God.