The Message

[ManApart]

ManApart, what also has to be taken into consideration is which text they translators used when translating the bible. The ASB and NASB omit verses and partial verses, where the KJV and NJKV add them. It all depends on whether the translators used the "Majority" or "Received" text, or if they used the "Critical" text. The KJ Versions used the first and the ASB Versions used the later.

Yes...agree, very much so. That knowledge brings greater discernment then when reading. One can separate the Divine Nature from human nature.

If You Know Jesus

See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever. Deuteronomy 36:39-40

You Know God

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. Matthew 11:28-30

And If You Don't

The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:35-36

____________

Believe

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. John 10:9

And Be Blessed Beloved

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. John 10:10

Love, Joe

May grace and peace be with you brother.

[Matthitjah]

Bless you brother,

God gets human attributes.

I understand what you are saying. God understands human attributes because He made man. However, there's something more God became what He beheld. He understands human attributes/nature because He became one. The Divine Nature as you express it became Man and made His dwelling with us. The Divine Nature stooped down and humbled Himself.

Php 2:6

Who, being in the form of God, thought it not a thing to be grasped to be equal with God:

Php 2:7

But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

Php 2:8

And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Do you agree with this and is this what you are trying to express? Do you agree that God became man in the flesh?

Peace,

Dave

[ManApart]

Hello, Manapart

If you would like to know more about the history of the Judeo- Christian Bible, I would be more than happy to share what is actually myth and so on. Just because something is a myth, it does not mean it is false. A myth can be described as a falsehood portraying a truth. When man could not comprehend the fullness of something as nature or the divine, he had to explain what he experienced the best way he knew how. Myths are the oldest form of story telling. The characters and so on were not meant to be real in that sense; they were trying to express a truth experienced.

Except the Bible does not ever treat any of its characters as mythical or unreal. Which characters do you think were unreal? What is your position on stories like the parting of the Red Sea? The Miracles of Jesus?

How do you view the inspiration and inerrancy of Scripture?

Inspiration is generally considered the origin of Divine knowledge. A Divine Intelligence conveys knowledge to a man by dream, vision, revelation, or awareness. It can be seen as a guidance or instruction received, or even a divine Impulse.

For religious inspiration, there is a three fold charisma for scripture. The instruction of the priest, the counsel of the wise, and the word of the prophet. From the simple view, anyone can be inspired, or moved upon to write and share an experience that when read by another, can be edifying.

Inspiration can be understood as a dictation of words, an interpretation of instruction and guidance, to convey a message. Inspiration is separate from revelation. Inspiration produces the sacred scripture, and revelation is the attestation, or proving, of a truth. What is written by the inspired writer may not be a revelation to him, but a revelation to the reader.

Inspiration affects the ideas and understanding that the writer already has; God works on man's level.

We can not comprehend the fullness of the thoughts and ways of God. We know that from scripture. God does not show us things beyond ourselves, but shows man things that they can relate and understand, inspiring him, and it is then up to the person to interpret the inspiration and speak or write it. A continuation of the Divine Movement.

Inspiration is the resonating within my soul, like Jeremiah and the burning within his bones. Experiencing true inspiration does something to you and can not be explained in words; it changes you and orchestrates our holy walk.

The inspiration and the divine movement continues with guidance from the spirit. There is no inerrant with the unction and will of God. Inerrancy comes form the human nature half of the literature. Man changes...so the translations, versions, and beliefs change, and that can be seen in study with understanding of human nature, psychology, philosophy, etc. The inspired message; the point of the enlightened teaching, reflecting the character of God's Nature does not change and is by no means in error. Inspiration is positive and negative, not necessarily good and evil.

God Bless.....

[ManApart]

Bless you brother,

God gets human attributes.

I understand what you are saying. God understands human attributes because He made man. However, there's something more God became what He beheld. He understands human attributes/nature because He became one. The Divine Nature as you express it became Man and made His dwelling with us. The Divine Nature stooped down and humbled Himself.

Php 2:6

Who, being in the form of God, thought it not a thing to be grasped to be equal with God:

Php 2:7

But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

Php 2:8

And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Do you agree with this and is this what you are trying to express? Do you agree that God became man in the flesh?

Peace,

Dave

Yes sir...I do agree 100%. The Divine Nature humbled Himself.....I love that, AMEN brother!

[Matthitjah]

Man changes...so the translations, versions, and beliefs change, and that can be seen in study with understanding of human nature, psychology, philosophy, etc.

No so brother;

Ec 1:9

The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

Ecclesiastes is written from the perspective of a man and not God. There is nothing new under the sun where a man is concerned. Man hasn't changed, he's still a sinner.

Peace,

Dave

[Guest shiloh357]

Hello, Manapart

You did not not answer my question about how you understand some bibllical characters to be mythical people who never existed. Which characters are not meant to be understood as literal and why are they not literal???

Inspiration is generally considered the origin of Divine knowledge. A Divine Intelligence conveys knowledge to a man by dream, vision, revelation, or awareness. It can be seen as a guidance or instruction received, or even a divine Impulse.

No, in Scripture visions, revelation, awareness dreams, etc. are not considered "inspiration." There is no such connection between those things and the doctrine of inspiration. Rather it is visions and dreams and revelation that the Holy Spirit inspired the biblical authors to record. They are the subject matter of the inspired text, and not the mediums of inspiration, themselves.

For religious inspiration, there is a three fold charisma for scripture.

"Religious" inspiration??? What in the world is that?

The instruction of the priest, the counsel of the wise, and the word of the prophet. From the simple view, anyone can be inspired, or moved upon to write and share an experience that when read by another, can be edifying.

Being inspired of God to pen the Scriptures does not reflect what you call the "simple view."

Inspiration can be understood as a dictation of words, an interpretation of instruction and guidance, to convey a message.

Not really. Inspiration is the means by which God super-intended His truth by the agency of the Holy Spirit upon the authors who, through the same spiritual agency recorded inerrantly that same truth.

Inspiration is separate from revelation. Inspiration produces the sacred scripture, and revelation is the attestation, or proving, of a truth. What is written by the inspired writer may not be a revelation to him, but a revelation to the reader.

Inspiration is the resonating within my soul, like Jeremiah and the burning within his bones. Experiencing true inspiration does something to you and can not be explained in words; it changes you and orchestrates our holy walk.

You are referencing Jeremiah 20:9. And that is not an example of inspiration. Jeremiah was referring to his calling as a prophet. His point was that even if he tried to forsake his ministry and stopped speaking in His Name, the message was a fire within Him. He could no more forsake that calling than could a mother forsake her child. Sorry, but you are reading that wrong.

. There is no inerrant with the unction and will of God. Inerrancy comes form the human nature half of the literature.

That is again, wrong. The Bible comes from God inerrantly. The human nature is incapable of inerrancy. Man is by nature an errant being. All of the truth of Scripture was transmitted from God to man and God prserved it from error. Furuthermore there is no "human nature half" of Scripture. The Scripture does not at any point originate with man.

Man changes...so the translations, versions, and beliefs change, and that can be seen in study with understanding of human nature, psychology, philosophy, etc.

None of that pertains to the issue of inerrancy.

The inspired message; the point of the enlightened teaching, reflecting the character of God's Nature does not change and is by no means in error. Inspiration is positive and negative, not necessarily good and evil.

You are long on words, but short on substance. Which parts of the Scriptures do you considered inspired and inerrant?

[ManApart]

Man changes...so the translations, versions, and beliefs change, and that can be seen in study with understanding of human nature, psychology, philosophy, etc.

No so brother;

Ec 1:9

The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

Ecclesiastes is written from the perspective of a man and not God. There is nothing new under the sun where a man is concerned. Man hasn't changed, he's still a sinner.

Peace,

Dave

Ecclesiastes, a wonderful book. Most do not understand the depth of the writer and the writings. You mention something very important, that it is written by a man. A man inspired to write by a unction and movement in the spirit. One of the fellow members just sent me a comment that there is no human nature side to scripture. I was actually told that there were some very edified members of this forum, with thorough knowledge and stability in spirit. I have seen comments and statements that I would not expect.

To see the physics of Creation and how life orcestrates is enlightening to individuals, such as the author of Ecclesiastes. To glimpse as a sage into the aspects of the Universe, God's plan, and our purpose here, really brings things into perspective. There are cycles and seasons to everything, and within those cycles, is change. Purpose initiates design and the design process constrain to meet the purpose. Everything changes, especially mankind, God does not. God, the Creative Diety, it is His purpose and Will, and it does not change. Man changes, aklways has and always will. Change is a Universal Law. As man changes, so does his avenues of expression.

Man, or the human nature, is sinful. It has the potential for wickedness. Just because man is still in a sinful nature does not mean that man does not change. His having a sinful dispostion does not affect his ability to write and share experiences of the Divine Nature.

I am thankful though that my God knows me better than I know myself. He knows my concrete reality and personality, and being that I grow, learn, experience, and mature, I change. But this is nothing new...correct? Been done before and will be done again....God Bless brother.

[ManApart]

Hello, Manapart

You did not not answer my question about how you understand some bibllical characters to be mythical people who never existed. Which characters are not meant to be understood as literal and why are they not literal???

Inspiration is generally considered the origin of Divine knowledge. A Divine Intelligence conveys knowledge to a man by dream, vision, revelation, or awareness. It can be seen as a guidance or instruction received, or even a divine Impulse.

No, in Scripture visions, revelation, awareness dreams, etc. are not considered "inspiration." There is no such connection between those things and the doctrine of inspiration. Rather it is visions and dreams and revelation that the Holy Spirit inspired the biblical authors to record. They are the subject matter of the inspired text, and not the mediums of inspiration, themselves.

For religious inspiration, there is a three fold charisma for scripture.

"Religious" inspiration??? What in the world is that?

The instruction of the priest, the counsel of the wise, and the word of the prophet. From the simple view, anyone can be inspired, or moved upon to write and share an experience that when read by another, can be edifying.

Being inspired of God to pen the Scriptures does not reflect what you call the "simple view."

Inspiration can be understood as a dictation of words, an interpretation of instruction and guidance, to convey a message.

Not really. Inspiration is the means by which God super-intended His truth by the agency of the Holy Spirit upon the authors who, through the same spiritual agency recorded inerrantly that same truth.

Inspiration is separate from revelation. Inspiration produces the sacred scripture, and revelation is the attestation, or proving, of a truth. What is written by the inspired writer may not be a revelation to him, but a revelation to the reader.

Inspiration is the resonating within my soul, like Jeremiah and the burning within his bones. Experiencing true inspiration does something to you and can not be explained in words; it changes you and orchestrates our holy walk.

You are referencing Jeremiah 20:9. And that is not an example of inspiration. Jeremiah was referring to his calling as a prophet. His point was that even if he tried to forsake his ministry and stopped speaking in His Name, the message was a fire within Him. He could no more forsake that calling than could a mother forsake her child. Sorry, but you are reading that wrong.

. There is no inerrant with the unction and will of God. Inerrancy comes form the human nature half of the literature.

That is again, wrong. The Bible comes from God inerrantly. The human nature is incapable of inerrancy. Man is by nature an errant being. All of the truth of Scripture was transmitted from God to man and God prserved it from error. Furuthermore there is no "human nature half" of Scripture. The Scripture does not at any point originate with man.

Man changes...so the translations, versions, and beliefs change, and that can be seen in study with understanding of human nature, psychology, philosophy, etc.

None of that pertains to the issue of inerrancy.

The inspired message; the point of the enlightened teaching, reflecting the character of God's Nature does not change and is by no means in error. Inspiration is positive and negative, not necessarily good and evil.

You are long on words, but short on substance. Which parts of the Scriptures do you considered inspired and inerrant?

Sorry I did not answer your question immediately. I am new to this site. I was told many great minds were here, many mature and edified individuals.

Early Hebrew writings are heavily influenced by the societies and civilizations that were surrounding them. Creation myths of the Mesopotamian region, such as Canaanite, Sumerian, and Egyptian were know to the Hebrews. As they began to move from oral tradition of records to written records, the Creation myths were retold according to the Hebrew beliefs, showing their version of how they fit in to existence. The Enuma Elish, Epic of Gilgamesh; all stories of how man believes life was established.

All have the pretty much the same story line, events, and lessons, just different characters and twist. Real interesting to see the cultural reflections.

You asked about characters, which ones are not literal. Cain and Able are examples. They are allegorical characters reflecting early Israel, when they had conflicts between the nomads and the agricultural sides. They were never meant to be real characters. According to Mainstream Christianity they are, but if you study the Hebrew culture and their historical writings, it is well explained. As far as we are taught, Cain and Abel were literal. When teaching a lesson, whether or not the character is real, does not really matter. Doesn't change the message being conveyed.

Those are apart of the inspiration. They are the avenues by which man perceives the Word of God. God has a desire or purpose, and then moves upon man. God uses visions, dreams, and so on to share with him. God works on man's level. That inspiration is a continuation, starting with God's desire, then eventually manifesting into a power laden spoken word or written word passed down for another to utter, releasing the power of the Spirit.

The term religious inspiration was meant to refer to the Torah and it's level of reverence to the Tanakh. The Law being the top, or most inspired, then followed by the prophets, and last the writings. The three fold charisma is for that, and the point is that religion places limitations on inspiration and says what is inspired. True inspiration is not in a box or limited. Religious leaders then made godly opportunities of peace, prosperity, and health into burdens and obligations. Religious leaders still do it today. Religion views inspiration differently that one who approaches from the spiritual or non-biased perspective.

This goes to the "simple view". Inspiration and the potential within is not complicated. Man makes it complicated. Jesus even used the example of a child in that a child-like mindset allows one to partake in the Kingdom. This is simplicity; an unwavering faith and trust. There is the simple view, not complicated by man, then the religious view of limitations.

What you say is true, I was not denying that. I was stating the fact that it can be viewed that way. It is all part of the overall purpose of the inspiration.

This is part of the inspiration. Jeremiah's burning within his bones was a type of inspiration. God chose him, knew him before the womb. And when the time was right, God moved upon him. Inspiration, and the burning was an overwhelming desire and unction to be a prophet. Try looking up the Hebrew meaning of inspiration and reference with Israelite literary forms. Inspiration is much bigger and has great importance to the depth of scripture.

Maybe I typed something wrong but I did not mean to say there is error on God's behalf. There is none. I am not sure who taught you there is no human nature in the Judeo - Christian Bible. Human nature plays as much role in what we have today for a Bible. You keep telling me I am wrong, I am sorry you feel that way, but maybe if you advance your studies more you will learn those truths. I studied the Hebrew culture, historical records, literary forms, you name it. I have placed my all into getting to know my God personally. Have learned much, and I can say, I am far from completion. I am sorry if what I say seems incorrect to you.

The Judeo -Christian Bible we have today is full of philosophy, theology, psychology, and sociology. Those are all aspects of mankind and the human nature, understand the human nature, and then discernment allows the core truths of scripture arise. If you think for one second that there is no manipulation, corruption, alteration, omitting, and even exaggerating to scriptures, you really should study the history of scripture, translations, versions, literary forms, and the history of the Church. But in all that, God's word, the essence of the message, never changes...that will endure and last forever, no matter what human nature does to it.

May grace and peace be with you....God Bless.

[ayin jade]

But in all that, God's word, the essence of the message, never changes...that will endure and last forever, no matter what human nature does to it.

What do you see as the message in the bible, what is God's message to us?

[~candice~]

Man - what then do you say about the manner in which Jesus Himself read and understood the bible and it's inerrancy?

Jesus spoke of Adam as a literal person. He quoted passages from the OT as if they were literal and true. Was Jesus wrong, or just going along with the current understanding of the time?

I think it would be quite easy to make a case that Jesus' interpretation of the bible (at that time, the OT) should inform our interpretation of the bible and thoughts about inerrancy and inspiration. If the Son of God reads it, cherishes it, quotes it and teaches from it as if it were literal, what liberty do we have to read it any other way?

God bless