Ro 11:20-21

[OldEnglishSheepdog]

Chesterton,

We can do nothing to save ourselves we do however have the ability to walk away from Christ to walk away from faith and this gift that we are freely given. We are called to live in this faith that is supplied to us, but notice in this passage; the Jews did not have faith and they were indeed cut off, how much more we who have been freely given faith must not boast as if we are better than the Jews just because we have accepted a free gift we have nothing that has not been given to us our only response is gratitude. Gratitude means living for Christ following Him. What we do is surrender we cannot take any credit; it is not about us.

I agree with this for the most part.

However, I think that the way we could walk away from Christ is disobedience and a lack of repentance.

In other words, our works do impact our salvation if we refuse to obey.

Grace is a gift, but salvation comes to those who cooperate with God's free gift of grace.

No, the gift is salvation, "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 6:23).

The gift is not grace, as you assert, but the gift is eternal life by grace, "But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many" (Romans 5:15).

And this freely given gift of salvation is by grace, through faith, not by works, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9).

It must be by grace, not by works, "Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work" (Romans 11:5-6).

"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" (Romans 4:5).

If salvation is exclusively a gift, then it is God's fault that any man goes to hell because God has the power to give all men this gift.

If that were so, then we'd have to accept that such was the case, since that's what scripture says.

However, it is not so. You're accepting a deterministic dichotomy.

To receive a gift is not to earn a gift. God freely offers the gift of salvation by grace as we see over and over above, and we can freely choose to accept or reject this gift, "But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve" (Joshua 24:15), "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me" (Rev. 3:20).

What scripture says is that the gift is eternal life and it clarifies that the gift is neither earned nor forced, hence the dichotomy does not exist within the pages of scripture.

The gift of God is grace,

I've quoted many passages that simply state flat out that the gift is eternal life by grace, through faith, not by works.

That's just what it says.

which has appeared to all men. What we do with this gift is up to us.

Yes, what we do with the freely given gift of God, which is not grace, but "eternal life" by grace, as we see over and over in the scripture above, is up to us.

[Isaiah 6:8]

I've quoted many passages that simply state flat out that the gift is eternal life by grace, through faith, not by works.

That's just what it says.

You have stated your fallible interpretation. Your interpretation directly contradicts the gospel message, though.

Your view requires that you reject or ignore most of the new testament passages on salvation. I accept all of the new testament as true, including the verses below which you must reject:

Matt 7:21

Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Romans 2

6God “will give to each person according to what he has done.” 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

Gal 6

7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

James 2

24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

1 Peter 1

17 Since you call on a Father who judges each person’s work impartially, live out your time as foreigners here in reverent fear.

Rev 20

12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.

John 15:10

If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love.

1 John 2:3 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands.

1 John 2:6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

etc.

I would say the only "Work" we do to gain salvation is to accept it. and again show that we have by our good works

Works are the proof of salvation but not the salvation in itself.

[Isaiah 6:8]

I would also say that some of those verses are about heavenly rewards above and beyond salvation. Salvation in and of itself is by grace alone.

[OldEnglishSheepdog]

I've quoted many passages that simply state flat out that the gift is eternal life by grace, through faith, not by works.

That's just what it says.

You have stated your fallible interpretation. Your interpretation directly contradicts the gospel message, though.

In point of fact, this is neither my interpretation nor does it contradict the gospel message. It actually is the gospel message which can be seen so clearly in the following two passges:

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him" (John 3:16-17); and

"if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved" (Romans 10:9). There is no contradiction at all between salvation as a free gift by faith in grace, not by works and the gospel message.

And it's simply silly to suggest that what I'm presenting is my interpretation since I can present the verses as they're written, free from any of my own thoughts or feelings and they still say just what I asserted all on their own:

"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 6:23).

I put it to you, does that or does it not say the gift of God is eternal life?

"But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many" (Romans 5:15).

I put it to you, does that or does it not say the gift is by grace?

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9).

I put it to you, does that or does it not say by grace we are saved, that is the gift of God, and that it is through faith, not by works?

"Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work" (Romans 11:5-6).

I put it to you, does that or does it not say the election is by grace, not by works, and if by works then it is no more grace?

"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" (Romans 4:5).

I put it to you, does that or does it not say to him that works not, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness?

If any of these things are not so, walk us through them in their contexts, but I submit that these things objectively state the contrary to what you assert, wholly apart from my rational or input.

Your view requires that you reject or ignore most of the new testament passages on salvation. I accept all of the new testament as true, including the verses below which you must reject:

Matt 7:21

Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Romans 2

6God “will give to each person according to what he has done.” 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

Gal 6

7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

James 2

24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

1 Peter 1

17 Since you call on a Father who judges each person’s work impartially, live out your time as foreigners here in reverent fear.

Rev 20

12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.

John 15:10

If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love.

1 John 2:3 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands.

1 John 2:6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

etc.

Reject or ignore? I've already dealt with these in previous converstations. I went into detail regarding the context, which you implied you didn't bother to read.

Objectively, that is neither rejecting nor ignoring, whereas my request for you to deal with these passages that I've submitted which require no interpretation but simply objectively state that "the gift of God is eternal life" and simply objectively state that such is the case "by grace" over and over, reamains outstanding while you flee to verses with which I've already dealt.

You're back at the 'I know you are but what am I' fallacies again.

Do we really have to start that over?

[Isaiah 6:8]

What about the seeds that feel on the rocky soil?

Matt 13

20The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away. 22The one who received the seed that fell among the thorns is the man who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it, making it unfruitful.

Again, you May jump off the shoulders if you choose to, the only work of salvation is accepting it.

Look at it this way, if you were given a ticket to a boat that was going to save you from a flood, all you had to do was take it and board the boat. The ticket is Salvation given by grace. Taking it is faith. Boarding the boat is walking in faith.

If you decide on the way to the boat the path is to hard and you throw your ticket away, then that is on you. Once you have the ticket, all you need to do is hang on to it. The ticket it self (Salvation) is free.

[OldEnglishSheepdog]

What about the seeds that feel on the rocky soil?

Matt 13

20The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away. 22The one who received the seed that fell among the thorns is the man who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it, making it unfruitful.

You made the point about rejecting or ignoring, so please stop running off to passages that won't permit your escape from dealing with these passages in context:

It's simply silly to suggest that what I'm presenting is my interpretation since I can present the verses as they're written, free from any of my own thoughts or feelings and they still say just what I asserted all on their own:

"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 6:23).

I put it to you, does that or does it not say the gift of God is eternal life?

"But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many" (Romans 5:15).

I put it to you, does that or does it not say the gift is by grace?

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9).

I put it to you, does that or does it not say by grace we are saved, that is the gift of God, and that it is through faith, not by works?

"Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work" (Romans 11:5-6).

I put it to you, does that or does it not say the election is by grace, not by works, and if by works then it is no more grace?

"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" (Romans 4:5).

I put it to you, does that or does it not say to him that works not, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness?

If any of these things are not so, walk us through them in their contexts, but I submit that these things objectively state the contrary to what you assert, wholly apart from my rational or input.

So, please stop ignoring or rejecting these points and address them.

At that point, then I'll deal with that parable in its context.

[OldEnglishSheepdog]

Reject or ignore? I've already dealt with these in previous converstations. I went into detail regarding the context, which you implied you didn't bother to read.

Objectively, that is neither rejecting nor ignoring, whereas my request for you to deal with these passages that I've submitted which require no interpretation but simply objectively state that "the gift of God is eternal life" and simply objectively state that such is the case "by grace" over and over, reamains outstanding while you flee to verses with which I've already dealt.

You're back at the 'I know you are but what am I' fallacies again.

Do we really have to start that over?

None of the passages you've listed say that a man is saved by faith alone.

Really?

Ok then, walk us through.

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9).

I put it to you, does that or does it not say by grace we are saved, that is the gift of God, and that it is through faith, not by works?

"to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness" (Romans 4:5).

I put it to you, does that or does it not say to him that works not, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness?

"at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work" (Romans 11:5-6).

I put it to you, does that or does it not say the election is by grace, not by works, and if by works then it is no more grace?

And while you're at it, how about actually stepping up the challenge and addressing these?

"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 6:23).

I put it to you, does that or does it not say the gift of God is eternal life?

"But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many" (Romans 5:15).

I put it to you, does that or does it not say the gift is by grace?

If any of these things are not so, walk us through them in their contexts, but I submit that these things objectively state the contrary to what you assert, wholly apart from my rational or input.

I provided passages that state explicitly that faith alone is not sufficient.

You failed to address the scripture I quoted and I've already addressed how you've removed all of those passages from their context to suggest they mean what they clearly don't when looked at in context.

Belief is necessary, but it can be lost.

Faith doesn't mean simply belief "the devils also believe, and tremble" (James 2:19).

No need to start over. I know that you will ignore the verses that prove your theory to be flawed, or simply state that they don't mean what they say.

Ignore hey?

When I write about the passages you say my responses are too long and it's all just my interpretation and outright ignore everything I've written.

Then, almost in the same breath you say that I'm ignoring the passages you present.

chestertonrules, that's crazy. If you continue to defend your position with craziness, it makes it sound... crazy. You're making Catholicism sound crazy. Is that what you want?

Grace is God's gift to us.

"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 6:23)... now, is that my interpretation or does this actually appear in the Bible? Does it or does it not say that the gift of God is eternal life?

Is that what the Bible says? Can you still pretend that it's somehow my interpretation?

Salvation is for those who cooperate with God's grace and endure until the end.

"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 6:23)

"to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness" (Romans 4:5).

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9).

Seriously.

[Guest]

Grace

And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God. Hosea 2:23

And The Church

Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. Revelation 3:17-22

____________

We are NEVER saved corporately only individually, that includes Jews and Gentiles alike.

But the essence of all of this is about unbelief and standing by faith, how because this is not something we earned but instead was given to us by grace we are very lucky indeed to be included with the Chosen people of God and grafted into that tree. But why, why are we grafted in and why have the Jews in this passage been taken out?

One word, faith or lack of faith in Christ as Lord, God and Savior. Further where does that faith come from? Does it come from some individual goodness or willingness to have faith that we have and the Jews do not? No we have nothing to boast about at all it is ALL a gift all we can do is reject it or not. Which it would be so wrong to think we are better than the Jews. Think of it we get a free gift and then we think we are special somehow?

____________

And With The Lord Jesus

And as they spake unto the people, the priests, and the captain of the temple, and the Sadducees, came upon them,

Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead.

And they laid hands on them, and put them in hold unto the next day: for it was now eventide.

Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand. Acts 4:1-4

Never Say

Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. Romans 11:3-5

Impossible

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jeremiah 31:31-33

___________

And The God Of Abraham, Isaac And Jacob Has Been Known To Provide A Parallel Bible

And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:

And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:

But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.

They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

The envy also of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off: Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim.

But they shall fly upon the shoulders of the Philistines toward the west; they shall spoil them of the east together: they shall lay their hand upon Edom and Moab; and the children of Ammon shall obey them.

And the LORD shall utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea; and with his mighty wind shall he shake his hand over the river, and shall smite it in the seven streams, and make men go over dryshod.

And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt. Isaiah 11

To Show To His Children Things Sure To Come That Seem Almost Too Wonderful

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. Romans 11:26-29

To Believe

And that which cometh into your mind shall not be at all, that ye say, We will be as the heathen, as the families of the countries, to serve wood and stone.

As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:

And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.

And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.

Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord GOD.

And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:

And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

As for you, O house of Israel, thus saith the Lord GOD; Go ye, serve ye every one his idols, and hereafter also, if ye will not hearken unto me: but pollute ye my holy name no more with your gifts, and with your idols.

For in mine holy mountain, in the mountain of the height of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, there shall all the house of Israel, all of them in the land, serve me: there will I accept them, and there will I require your offerings, and the firstfruits of your oblations, with all your holy things.

I will accept you with your sweet savour, when I bring you out from the people, and gather you out of the countries wherein ye have been scattered; and I will be sanctified in you before the heathen.

And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I shall bring you into the land of Israel, into the country for the which I lifted up mine hand to give it to your fathers.

And there shall ye remember your ways, and all your doings, wherein ye have been defiled; and ye shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for all your evils that ye have committed.

And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have wrought with you for my name's sake, not according to your wicked ways, nor according to your corrupt doings, O ye house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD. Ezekiel 20:32-44

Maranatha~!

[Guest shiloh357]

If gentiles are grafted into the commonwealth of Israel what does that make them? gentile Israel? I don't believe there is such a term.

Correct there is no such term. It makes them Gentiles who are allowed to participate the blessings given to Israel. They are not Israelites. They are joined to the commonwealth of Israel.

Those people that God pulled out of Egypt were Abrahams seed weren't they? Where is the covenant with the gentiles? if gentiles are permitted to benefit from the blessings of the covenant made specfically to Israel but are not Israel where in scriptre do we read of where this is going to happen and how they are to remain a separate people who enjoy the blessings of Israel?

Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called "the uncircumcision" by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands-- remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. (Eph 2:11-13)

When Peter writes his letters is he calling genitles, Jews or those in disporia which is considered the northern tribe?

He is writing to the physical tribes of Israel descended through Jacob, not Gentiles.

I know you read and speak Hebrew, but when I ask the rabbis who they think Peter and the rest are speaking to they all tell me it is the northern kingdom of Israel.

It may be. The problem I have is with people who are born Gentile being sucked into the false teaching that most "Gentiles" are really members of the 10 northern tribes.

When any person comes to faith in Yeshua as the Messiah they are grafted into Israel and they are called Israel. I cannot find a separate called out body that is given a covenant that included eternal life apart from the one given to Israel.

I am not sure where you are getting that from. Every reference to Israel in the Old AND New Testaments only ever refer to the physical descendents of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Gentiles are NEVER referred to as "Israel" in the NT. In the Old Testament, the terms "Israel" and "Jacob" are used interchangably. Jacob is the representative head of all twelve tribes. Gentiles are never included under the name, "Jacob." You are getting some very incorrect information.

So how does the gentiles get all these blessings without being a part of the covenant?

But they are part of the covenant, the New Covenant made with the house of Israel and the house of Judah. Jesus was their covenant representative. The B'rit Hadasha was cut in Jesus' blood. It was the renewal or restoration of what was broken, albeit a much improved version. As a direct result of their acceptance of Jesus as their Savior, they are grafted into the place of blessing, the root of the olive tree, as Paul said, "contrary to nature." Paul says that they were strangers to the covenants, but now are no longer regarded as foreigners or strangers, but are fellow citizens of the household of God. That does not make them Israelites, and it does not make them Jews. They are still Gentiles, but they are afforded all of the rights and privileges of a native born Israelite under the covenant.

When I read about the 'new' covenant I see its made with Israel, Judah and all their companions and it is not completely fulfilled until He returns again, thats evident in the writings in Jer. and Eze.

That is true, but is not really material to this issue, as there is much left to be fulfilled by God toward the natural seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all will be fulfilled in His time and according to His good pleasure.

By the way I do not see Israel, Judah or anyone else that is given that covenant as any kind of genetic anything anymore but all who call upon and confess the name of Yeshua and know there is only one true God who sent Him.

In, Christ our "genetic" heritage is not an issue nor should it be an issue, but receiving Yeshua/Jesus does not make a Gentile something else other than what he is. He remains just as he is and Jews remain just as they are. The middle wall has been torn down and every body stands blessed together in the same Savior and Messiah.

Now having said all of that, it still has nothing to do with the issue raised by Paul in Romans 11. Romans 9, 10 and 11 are an appeal to the Gentiles to be a blessing to people of Israel - All twelve tribes. The whole divided kingdom thing is no longer an issue. They are one nation. All twelve tribes are "Israel" and they are "Jacob." Paul is calling all of those beleivers not physcially born to one of those tribes to be a blessing to all twelve of those tribes. That is all he is doing in those three chapters, when you boil it down. It is the apex of the entire letter.

[Smalcald]

I think that is a very good analysis of those points and I don't disagree with any of them.

However you can't be serious that the apex or point of the the book of Romans is how gentiles should treat Jews?