nebula Posted July 22, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 This kind of talk can actually stop the spreading of the word and you and any others doing this should be ashamed. These people have been spreading the gospel for over 50 years and doing an excellent job, and if they deem it necessary to change their name to be more effective, you nor anyone else has the right to question their actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted July 22, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 22, 2011 I believe the question arises that if they first change the name because it is offensive, will they next change the message if ti also is seen as offensive? When I first read this, my mind went back to a movie I have, called Time Changers. The movie shows how if you take Christ out of the picture, the teaching is not the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted July 22, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted July 22, 2011 They are at the sharp end of the spear, and if they decide that a name change would further the Kingdom, who am I to complain. If I was working with them, and had a concern, then I think it might be valid. But sitting on the outside, and knowing the work they do, I am not qualified to judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted July 22, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 I believe the question arises that if they first change the name because it is offensive, will they next change the message if ti also is seen as offensive? When I first read this, my mind went back to a movie I have, called Time Changers. The movie shows how if you take Christ out of the picture, the teaching is not the same. The impression I got was that it wasn't the name being offensive but rather that it was an instant turn-off. That is, the name drove people away before they had the chance to speak or do their work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
methinkshe Posted July 22, 2011 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 679 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/02/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 22, 2011 I believe the question arises that if they first change the name because it is offensive, will they next change the message if ti also is seen as offensive? When I first read this, my mind went back to a movie I have, called Time Changers. The movie shows how if you take Christ out of the picture, the teaching is not the same. The impression I got was that it wasn't the name being offensive but rather that it was an instant turn-off. That is, the name drove people away before they had the chance to speak or do their work. I suppose it depends upon the mission of the organisation in question. The organisation I spoke of, "The Crusaders" is for children of Christian parents; it was not meant to be, nor is, an "outreach to the unsaved" mission. It exists primarily to serve the children of the church of Jesus. I'm not saying that some children of the unsaved might not attend their classes or camps, but its primary purpose is to serve the children of the brethren of Christ. In which case, I wonder why it was necessary to change the name from "The Crusaders" to "Urban Saints". Conversely, I can appreciate that if "The Crusaders" was a mission to Muslims, it wouldn't be a very good name with which to gain even an initial hearing, never mind anything more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted July 22, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 22, 2011 I believe the question arises that if they first change the name because it is offensive, will they next change the message if ti also is seen as offensive? When I first read this, my mind went back to a movie I have, called Time Changers. The movie shows how if you take Christ out of the picture, the teaching is not the same. The impression I got was that it wasn't the name being offensive but rather that it was an instant turn-off. That is, the name drove people away before they had the chance to speak or do their work. I understand, and it is their choice to be called what they want to be called. I also understand that it will get worst in the world toward the Lord, not better. Even if they do find a catchy name that draws people, when they start to talk about God, will those who now turn away because of their name not do so then? I admit to not reading the article, so I ask, which part of their name turned people away? Was it crusaders or Christ or both? Salvation does not come from a catchy title, nor for wisdom of man, but through Christ and His Spirit. My concern is how far will some go? Will it become popular to tell the message of living a Godly life without using the words that turn people away? Will they tell people it's wrong to steal because they are taking things that don't belong to them without telling people that this is one of Gods commandments, or it is wrong and hurtful to have an affair without mentioning the Christ said that if we look after a person with lust in our hearts we already committed adultery? Can you see what I mean? There is a church I use to go to that was called Grace Outreach because it did outreach at Dartmouth College. They changed their name to Well Spring to try and get more people to come. This didn't set well with me because it seems that man is trying to do His work, yet are kind of ashamed to mention Him. Yes, it is just a name, yet I asked myself then, as I am asking myself now, how far will people go to attract people? It seems to me they may go as far as it takes to get more people to church. God draws to Him those that He draws, no matter what their name is, so does it really matter? Again, I am just concerned that Christians will begin to remove unattractive words from everything in fear of turning someone away. Could it be that the Holy Spirit is using these same words that are being removed to convict sinners of sin? Only He knows for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted July 22, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 I read elsewhere that "Cru" is what the ministry has been called shorthand by most people anyway. That's why they chose that. I understand the concern, yet off-hand my take is that the message should be the offense, not the presentation. If the presentation is offensive, it shouldn't be a "wrong" to change it, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted July 23, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 23, 2011 I read elsewhere that "Cru" is what the ministry has been called shorthand by most people anyway. That's why they chose that. I understand the concern, yet off-hand my take is that the message should be the offense, not the presentation. If the presentation is offensive, it shouldn't be a "wrong" to change it, correct? Sort of ... let me explain. Our presentation is to be one of love, we are to always speak in love, which should not offend anyone. I agree. Yet, when a person is being convicted by the Holy Spirit, everything to them about Christ is offensive if they are resisting. Nothing we can say or do will ever change that. That is what His Spirit has to deal with when He speaks to the hearts of everyone who lives in sin. Just like the name of the church I mentioned. When they changed from Grace Outreach to Well Spring, to me, they removed what was offensive to appease those who don't want anything to do with Christ in the first place. That was like removing who they were to make a sinner happy. Grace is what we all receive when we accept Him, which was done through some sort of outreach from someone who first spoke to us about Christ. At least, in my life. I get a "bad taste in my mouth" when I think that Christians are hiding what and who they really are to make sinners not feel guilty or run away. In some way, i see this as being ashamed of being a Christian or ashamed of how He affects people. Such a slippery slope to tread on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted July 23, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I read elsewhere that "Cru" is what the ministry has been called shorthand by most people anyway. That's why they chose that. I understand the concern, yet off-hand my take is that the message should be the offense, not the presentation. If the presentation is offensive, it shouldn't be a "wrong" to change it, correct? So true. You can tell a person "Listen, accept Jesus or you are going to burn in hell" Or you can say, "Hey, can I tell you about Jesus? It is a life changing message" My bet is the latter will get a more positive response....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted July 23, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Author Share Posted July 23, 2011 Sort of ... let me explain. Our presentation is to be one of love, we are to always speak in love, which should not offend anyone. I agree. Yet, when a person is being convicted by the Holy Spirit, everything to them about Christ is offensive if they are resisting. Nothing we can say or do will ever change that. That is what His Spirit has to deal with when He speaks to the hearts of everyone who lives in sin. Just like the name of the church I mentioned. When they changed from Grace Outreach to Well Spring, to me, they removed what was offensive to appease those who don't want anything to do with Christ in the first place. That was like removing who they were to make a sinner happy. Grace is what we all receive when we accept Him, which was done through some sort of outreach from someone who first spoke to us about Christ. At least, in my life. I get a "bad taste in my mouth" when I think that Christians are hiding what and who they really are to make sinners not feel guilty or run away. In some way, i see this as being ashamed of being a Christian or ashamed of how He affects people. Such a slippery slope to tread on. Changing their name is not a guarantee they are changing the message. And what they do is far different from a church. I seriously have to chuckle at a church thinking a name change is going to change anyone's opinion about the place being a "church". But from the article (and this was posted in the OP): "There's only one reason we'd change. We want to do a better job of connecting people to God's love and forgiveness," they said. "It's all about helping people experience the good news that Jesus offers." The ministry insists "Cru" is not to eliminate "Christ" from its name. "Our mission has not changed. Cru enables us to have discussions about Christ with people who might initially be turned off by a more overtly Christian name," the group added. Leaders say "Cru" was already a popular shorthand for the ministry. Many campuses have already dropped the "crusade" language from their chapters. Let's say they have a stand at an outdoor event passing out free water, and they share Jesus with the people somehow in the serving. What if they have noticed that people approach them with closed ears because having seen the name they predetermined they didn't want to hear? Or people would not approach at all? The goal in witnessing is to plant the seed on fertile ground, and it's hard to do that when someone approaches you with rock-ground face-forward. And you have to admit, "Cru for Christ" sounds very dorky! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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