oh hmm evolution

[Happy Forever]

You do not sound very happy, for someone who calls himself Happy Forever...just kidding

CU sister

You make me happy with your nice words.

It is life of contradiction, I seek another happiness.

Where do you find the true happiness?

Thanks sister

Edited September 17, 2011 by Happy Forever

[Yman48]

I won't answer for others; but as for me: I find true happiness in knowing that no matter the troubles I have in this life, God is in control; that no matter how hard it rains, the sun if shining above the clouds; that the persecution and arguments of men with itchy ears will never prevail against the Word of God; that my poor afflicted body will be instantly changed into its eternal purpose with God. My happiness comes from within me through the power of the Holy Spirit.

[Happy Forever]

I won't answer for others; but as for me: I find true happiness in knowing that no matter the troubles I have in this life, God is in control; that no matter how hard it rains, the sun if shining above the clouds; that the persecution and arguments of men with itchy ears will never prevail against the Word of God; that my poor afflicted body will be instantly changed into its eternal purpose with God.

How beautiful are your words except the last sentence.

I find happiness in rain itself as it is the source of life. I find happiness in pure innocent faces. I find happiness at hard times as I become nearer to my God. I find happiness in disasters as I know it is a test from The God. I find happiness in cruelty as I know the reward of patience is unimaginable.

I find this life is plant looks fresh and green to become ashes.

True happiness when I become ashes and pass the test of life peacefully.

[Fez]

I won't answer for others; but as for me: I find true happiness in knowing that no matter the troubles I have in this life, God is in control; that no matter how hard it rains, the sun if shining above the clouds; that the persecution and arguments of men with itchy ears will never prevail against the Word of God; that my poor afflicted body will be instantly changed into its eternal purpose with God.

How beautiful are your words except the last sentence.

I find happiness in rain itself as it is the source of life. I find happiness in pure innocent faces. I find happiness at hard times as I become nearer to my God. I find happiness in disasters as I know it is a test from The God. I find happiness in cruelty as I know the reward of patience is unimaginable.

I find this life is plant looks fresh and green to become ashes.

True happiness when I become ashes and pass the test of life peacefully.

True Happiness is when I sit below the throne, at the feet of Jesus!

He died and passed the test for me!

[Happy Forever]

True Happiness is when I sit below the throne, at the feet of Jesus!

He died and passed the test for me!

Your god with feet?!

Why? He can't walk without feet? So he needs his feet. Why he needs to walk?

To be able to see what he can't see? Ah, of course as he his eyes can see what is in front of them only like us.

Your god is composed of parts and he needs his parts. If he lost one part, he becomes weak. Can we kill him?!! Oh, this is what you already think.

A dead god after being tortured by his creatures!!!

Allah is The All sufficient, The Omnipotent, The All Seeing, The Allah Hearing, The Ever Forgiving, The Most Merciful.

"Is there doubt about Allah the Creator of the heavens and the earth"

[Happy Forever]

Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins

This is your bible, brother.

********

This is The Perfect words of Quran:

The translation:

112. Surat Al-Ikhlas (Faithfulness)

In The Name of Allah, The All-Merciful, The Ever-Merciful.

1. Say, “He is Allah, The Only One,

2. Allah, The Everlasting Sovereign

3. He has not begotten and has not been begotten,

4. And to Him none could be co-equal.”

Let's challenge, brother, and provide evidence to show which one is The Perfect words of The God.

First:

Allah means The One True God, what is the meaning of Jesus?

Second:

Quran means the best the can be read. What is the meaning of bible?

Third:

Islam means submission to The One True God, what is the meaning of Christianity?

Fourth:

This Surah in front of you is a great miracle from Allah, can you show me I will not say a miracle but a trivial evidence?

Wait for more and more insha Allah.

"Is there doubt about Allah The Creator of the heavens and the eath"

Edited September 17, 2011 by Happy Forever

[Fez]

True Happiness is when I sit below the throne, at the feet of Jesus!

He died and passed the test for me!

Your God with feet?!

Why? He can't walk without feet? So he needs his feet. Why he needs to walk?

To be able to see what he can't see? Ah, of course as he his eyes can see what is in front of them only like us.

Your god is composed of parts and he needs his parts. If he lost one part, he becomes weak. Can we kill him?!! Oh, this is what you already think.

A dead god after being tortured by his creatures!!!

Allah is The All sufficient, The Omnipotent, The All Seeing, The Allah Hearing, The Ever Forgiving, The Most Merciful.

"Is there doubt about Allah the Creator of the heavens and the earth"

Oh yes my God got feet!

Nah 1:3 The LORD is slow to anger and great in power, and the LORD will by no means clear the guilty. His way is in whirlwind and storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet.

[Dragoon]

Asalaam Alaikum Happy.

Some simple questions for you

1) Were the Injil, Torat and Zaboor from God in their original form?

If so, then how can man pervert what is from God? Cannot God protect His own Words?

2) Why do you think the Injil, Torat and Zaboor are corrupted by the way?

3) Why do you not believe that Jesus son of Mary was not crucified?

Wa Alikom Assalam brother,

1) Yes, they were.

"Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and then say, "This is from Allâh," to purchase with it a little price! Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for that they earn thereby. (79)" [2:79]

Allah protects His books if He wills. He left the burden upon man but for Quran:

"Verily We: It is We Who have sent down the remainder (the Qur'ân) and surely, We are to it, verily Gurdian (9)" [15:9]

We refers to Allah.

2) Turah and Injeel were partially corrupted at the time of Prophet Muhammad, the Jews hided parts and changed others.

These books, brothers, were not available for like now in Quran.

Pope and priests kept it for themselves cuz they couldn't apply it or in other words, these great books were against their interests.

That is why Allah ordered His messengers to tell people of the book to apply their books.

Now, these books are not existed even the corrupted version. What you have between your hands are human quotes from the mouth and fingers of man.

Turah and Injeel are the words of Allah from Him to Moses and Jesus not from Moses and Jesus then recorded by other many people. Then recently you try to search for your book to found part thrown here and other there written by anyone claiming anything.

They are not existed, brother. The words of Allah stands by itself not by died deceived people or old papers.

3)

155. So, for their breaking of their compact, and their disbelieving in the signs of Allah, and their killing of the Prophesiers (i.e. prophets) untruthfully and their saying, “Our hearts are encased.” No indeed, (but) Allah has stamped upon them for their disbelief; so they do not believe except a few.

156. And for their disbelief and their speaking against Maryam (Mary) a tremendous all-malicious (calumny).

157. And for their saying, “Surely we killed the Masih, Isa son of Maryam, (The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary) the Messenger of Allah.” And in no way did they kill him, and in no way did they crucify him, but a resemblance of him was presented to them (i.e. the matter was made obscure for them through mutual resemblance). And surely the ones who differed about him are indeed in doubt about him. In no way do they have any knowledge about him except the close following of surmise, and in no way did they kill him of a certainty.

158. No indeed, Allah raised him up to Him; and Allah has been Ever-Mighty, Ever-Wise.

[4:155/158]

Please also consider. As you say to OldEnglishSheepdog to beware of "non Muslim, ignorant, unauthorized, cheap, anti Islam" information, how much of your own information is flawed because it has come through Muslim eyes which do not understand what the Bible teaches?

Often God instructs us with the accusations we point at others.

Thanks for your politeness and respect and your logic.

I know bible and and its flaws and politics too but I don't throw false accusations out of ignorance. I and no body gain from this. That is why I ask for a respectful debate to find the truth.

---

Also, before you ignore the comments about Muslim treatment of other religions in countries governed by Sharia, might I suggest you look into it (from more than just Muslim sources). I recently sat and had a long and pleasant conversation with an Arab Christian brother from Lebanon. He has lived and worked throughout the Middle East, and part of what he spoke of was the persecution of Christians there.

I understand politics and have countless examples against yours but this is not the topic here.

BTW: Lebanon doesn't apply Sharia.

Salaam Alaikuum again Happy,

Thank you for your detailed reply. As we are discussing the words of God, might I suggest that we each pray before continuing.

----

I asked:

1) Were the Injil, Torat and Zaboor from God in their original form?

If so, then how can man pervert what is from God? Cannot God protect His own Words?

Happy Forever answered:

1) Yes, they were

You assume that [2:79] refers to the Christians and the Jews though.

Might I remind you that in the days before Mohammed (pbuh), there were false people who wrote things that they ascribed to God, but were not. These texts fall under the title of 'pseudepigrapha', and they were denounced and their writings were condemned.

Jews and Christians have trusted in God to protect what is His, but we have also been dilligent in protecting in ourselves.

Be careful that you do not read more than what is written brother.

(I call you brother in the sense that we are both creations of the only God, not implying that we share the same beliefs... though hopefully we both desire to follow God faithfully.)

I asked:

2) Why do you think the Injil, Torat and Zaboor are corrupted by the way?

Happy Forever answered:

2) Turah and Injeel were partially corrupted at the time of Prophet Muhammad, the Jews hided parts and changed others.

These books, brothers, were not available for like now in Quran.

I've come across this assertion before.

Might I ask why you have not posted what is written in support of it? Is there nothing in the Quran or the Hadith that supports this?

I think there is a grave misunderstanding here by Muslims.

The books of the Jews and the Injil are and have always been available.

It is written;

Fix these words of mine in your hearts and minds

(Dt 11:18)

and again;

I have hidden your word in my heart that I might not sin against you.

(Ps 119:11)

So there have always been those who have committed what is written to memory.

This is more demanding than with the Quran, for as you know the Injil, Taurat and Zaboor together are about 10 times longer.

We also have thousands of existing copies (and obviously there were more in earlier times). I once heard a Muslim scholar attack the Bible by saying, "Look how many different copies there were."

He was entirely wrong though. There are thousands of copies, not of 'different' Bibles, but of the

same

one.

The Injil for example has about 5,300 different surviving manuscripts (not all are complete) in Greek, with over 10,000 additional copies in Latin, and several thousand more in other languages.

These are not 'different' Injils (Gospels/New Testaments),

but faithful copies of the same one

.

There were definitely occassional errors as people copied, but with so many thousands of copies of the same scripture the mistaken ones are easy to discern. If Hafiz and Mullanah can discern mistakes in speaking, how much more can readers discern mistakes in what is read to them?

I asked:

3) Why do you not believe that Jesus son of Mary was not crucified?

Happy Forever answered:

3) "...in no way did they kill him, and in no way did they crucify him but a resemblance of him was presented to them "

Might I point out first of all that the first portion "..

in no way did they kill him, and in no way did they crucify him

" is in agreement with the Injil (Gospels), which I accept as the true Word of God. The ''they' that is referred to are the Jews (as is clear from the context of Moses).

Jesus of Nazareth also said this.

No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

(John 10:18)

This brings us to the true issue, because the Injil clearly states that Jesus (and not a

'resemblance of him'

) was crucified, and all of the Taurat and Zaboor point to this fulfillment of what God has promised.

Since Isa al Massih, Son of God is the point of division between us, perhaps we can discuss Him?

Why do you disbelieve God when He tells us that, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased." (Matthew 3:17)

re: Lebanon

Yes, that is why I said, "He has lived and worked throughout the Middle East", in other words, in Sharia countries.

[Dragoon]

Your ignorance and arrogance make you think that you know Islam more than Muslims?!!!!!

I am an Islam scholar graduated from Al Azhar. I know Islam and Judaism and Christianity more than you.

Be careful of your pride brother.

Your words themselves tell me what you do not know.

Is God humble or proud?

Does God desire pride or humility in us?

Christ Jesus:

Who, being in very nature God,

did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,

but made himself nothing,

taking the very nature of a servant,

being made in human likeness.

And being found in appearance as a man,

he humbled himself

and became obedient to death—

even death on a cross!

Therefore God exalted him to the highest place

and gave him the name that is above every name,

that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,

in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,

to the glory of God the Father.

(Phillipians 2:5-11)

[Fez]

Your ignorance and arrogance make you think that you know Islam more than Muslims?!!!!!

I am an Islam scholar graduated from Al Azhar. I know Islam and Judaism and Christianity more than you.

Yeah, yeah, but Jesus Loves me! I don't need to be a scholar to understand that!