oh hmm evolution

[Dragoon]

We have unclean hearts, not because God is imperfect, but because all men have become unclen through Adam.

This is injustice.

Here is the perfection:

"Whoever is guided, surely he is guided only for himself; (i.e., for his own gain) and whoever errs (away), then surely he errs (away) only upon himself; (i.e., to his own loss) and no encumbered self will be encumbered with the encumbrance of another (self); and in no way are We tormenting (anyone) until We have sent forth a Messenger." [17:15]

Not injustice. Simply truth.

Can an unclean being give birth to a clean one?

The sins of the father are passed on through the generations.

Have you not noticed that the children of criminals often become criminals. The children of wife abusers often abuse their wives.

We pass on the stain within us, if not through our blood, then through our actions as we raise our children.

But God is perfect.

And He still loves us because He created us.

So yes.

Our Creator wants to clean us.

Yes, The One God wants to clean us so He sent His light and guidance and words but He doesn't love us only because we are His creatures.

"Verily Allah doesn't love the corrupters" [28:77]

Verily Allah doesn't love the treacherous" [8:58]

"Verily Allah doesn't love prideful, boasters" [57:23]

"And Allah doesn't love the unjust" [3:57]

Yes, this is the teaching of Islam.

The teachings of Jesus Christ are very different though.

“But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you.

“If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even ‘sinners’ love those who love them. And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even ‘sinners’ do that. And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even ‘sinners’ lend to ‘sinners,’ expecting to be repaid in full. But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

(Gospel of Luke 6:27-36)

God hates the sin.

But the person is His creation, and He loves us always.

If your daughter became a drug addict, would you hate your daughter?

... or would you hate the drugs because you love your daughter?

May I ask you?

Is this teaching from man, or from God?

Have mercy on me, O God,

according to your mercy and forgiveness,

blot out my transgressions.

Wash away all my iniquity

and cleanse me from my sin.

Amen

By this, we may be clean after His will.

God has proven Himself to me, and has shown me the truth of His Words... so if some person or even an angel from heaven came and tried to give me a message different from that in scripture, I would call him a liar and condemn them.

This is not because I love logic or love myself.

I would do this because I love God and trust Him.

I have the evidence of God's revelation to me, His Holy Spirit, and His Word.

I am a normal human, I didn't see Allah and no one saw Him. Allah didn't reveal to me, I am a normal human not a messenger or a prophet.

God has proven Himself to me, and has shown me the truth of His Words... so if some person or even an angel from heaven came and tried to give me a message different from that in scripture, I would call him a liar and condemn them as they are not angels, they are satans in a good shape.

This is because I love logic and respect my mind and sincere with myself. I know why Allah created me and why he gave me this precious mind.

To know Him and thank Him and ask His forgiveness everyday, every night, every moment. He is The Most deserving to be remembered and worshipped.

Al Hamdu lillah wa Astaghfiru Allah.

Allah, grant us the ability to thank you and ask your forgiveness and good obedience.

We both have words on paper.

We both believe that those words are from God.

When you get right down to it, do you have anything more than the Quran?

Once again Happy, I must ask you.

Did God put the words you wrote to speak to me... or to you?

Brother Dragoon,

This is the life of illusion and the winner who find the truth and follow it.

There are countless religions around the world and countless books they all claim to be god religion and god words but.....

But the reiligion of The One Ture God is the only right religion clear, with evidence from our Creator to distinguish His religion from the falsehood.

Of course you believe that the religion of The God is the strongest one, the most clear one, with a great evidence to support it (God will not create us with mind to leave us in illusion.

Let's agree to show the evidence of our religions and the one which is proved to be the most evident and irrefutable will be for sure the religion of The One God.

God protect you and your family

I can only show what God has given me.

The rest is His will.

But I am always happy to discuss God with you.

May God guide and bless your family as well.

[Dragoon]

Salaam Alaikuum Happy,

Please continue to write, but I may be away for a day or two.

I'm a little behind with work

God's Grace and Peace be with you all.

[Happy Forever]

Salaam Alaikuum Happy,

Please continue to write, but I may be away for a day or two.

I'm a little behind with work

God's Grace and Peace be with you all.

Wa Alikom Assalaam

Mr Dragoon,

I noticed that you are loved by many people here for your politeness and elegance and good manner.

May Allah grant you His greatest grace.

[Happy Forever]

We have unclean hearts, not because God is imperfect, but because all men have become unclen through Adam.

This is injustice.

Here is the perfection:

"Whoever is guided, surely he is guided only for himself; (i.e., for his own gain) and whoever errs (away), then surely he errs (away) only upon himself; (i.e., to his own loss) and no encumbered self will be encumbered with the encumbrance of another (self); and in no way are We tormenting (anyone) until We have sent forth a Messenger." [17:15]

Not injustice. Simply truth.

Can an unclean being give birth to a clean one?

The sins of the father are passed on through the generations.

Have you not noticed that the children of criminals often become criminals. The children of wife abusers often abuse their wives.

We pass on the stain within us, if not through our blood, then through our actions as we raise our children.

"Truth" is not an easy word. The more you get inito the truth with your given senses, the more your belief becomes stronger.

If you will talk about the truth, then logic must play its role. What is the evidence that there was someone called Adam?

This is complete injustice and falsehood.

We are all clean and pure by nature. Look at a face of a baby and you will know. If a sinless baby died, shall he be punished for the claimed sin of his unwitnessed unseen father?!

Is it justice? Allah is The Justice and this is not His religion.

Yes, a criminal son may become criminal but not by inheritance but by teaching and choosing his way out of his free will. In the day of Judgment, each soul will be rewarded and punished according to its own deeds not its anscetors' deeds. This is justice of Allah.

But God is perfect.

And He still loves us because He created us.

So yes.

Our Creator wants to clean us.

Yes, The One God wants to clean us so He sent His light and guidance and words but He doesn't love us only because we are His creatures.

"Verily Allah doesn't love the corrupters" [28:77]

Verily Allah doesn't love the treacherous" [8:58]

"Verily Allah doesn't love prideful, boasters" [57:23]

"And Allah doesn't love the unjust" [3:57]

Yes, this is the teaching of Islam.

The teachings of Jesus Christ are very different though.

“But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you.

“If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even ‘sinners’ love those who love them. And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even ‘sinners’ do that. And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even ‘sinners’ lend to ‘sinners,’ expecting to be repaid in full. But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

(Gospel of Luke 6:27-36)

God hates the sin.

But the person is His creation, and He loves us always.

If your daughter became a drug addict, would you hate your daughter?

... or would you hate the drugs because you love your daughter?

May I ask you?

Is this teaching from man, or from God?

Of course from a man know nothing about the creation of Allah. There are similar things to this among Muslims called "carrot and stick" "Exhortation and Intimidation".

People write (invent) stories and set opinions for the sake of exhorting people to worship god and love him and to be sincere to him but by lies thinking that they do good, and actually they lie on Allah.

Others do the opposite, invent horrible stories and set opinions then claim its is true to intimidate people to fear fire by lie.

But the right balance is the balance of Allah The Creator Who created us and know us more than ourselves and He is not unjust to His slaves.

Allah The Justice set these rules to save the community:

Don't kill.

Don't steal.

Don't commit adultry.

He will not order us to let ourselves to be killed without defence or to be stolen and encourge the thief instead of punishing him.

Yes we can love our enemy but out of this love, we fight him exactly like cutting your poisoned arm to save your body. We punish a thief to save him from his sin and save community from theft.

We are asked to deal in good manner those who treat us badly but never allowed to touch the right of community.

"And not equal are the fair deed and the odious deed. Repel with that which is fairest; then, only then, he between whom and you there is enmity will be as if he were an intimate constant patron.(34) And in no way will anyone be granted (such fairness) except the ones who (endure) patiently; and in no way will anyone be granted it except an owner of a tremendous fortune (Literally: Portion) (in the Hereafter).(35) [41:34/35]

God hates the sin.

What is sin? An act or a person? Is there an act without a person?

I hate evil? Or I hate evil person? What about Devil? God hate devil or only the sins of the devil?

Why are we his sons? Why not other animals are his sons too? why not he is father of jinns too and he hate the deed of his lovely son devil?

If this is your truth, why he give us free will to do evil?

Do you know that parental love is a weakness and weakness of impossible for Allah?

To love someone, you want him to live the best life and provide him with best things and achieve all his wishes. You cannot hurt him or cause him to suffer and will not judge him for any fault he does.

Can this be for Allah The God The Creator not the creature?

Impossible.

Allah created us in this shape for a purpose. He grants us mind to have free will to choose good or bad. He inserted in us natural desires "weakness" to eat and have property and partner and children. He presents to us the allowed and forbidden, the good and evil. The good has its good taste and the evil has its good taste. Why evil too has its good taste?

Because it is a test and who fail in the test will be judged.

"Say: " the enjoyment of the lower life is short and the Hereafter is the best for those who do right: never will ye be dealt with unjustly in the very least! (77)" [3:77]

So brother, we are not gods or son gods, we are weak creatures seeking our Creator to guide us and forgive us.

He created with our desires to be tested. The good and obeyer will be rewarded and the evil and disobeyer will be punished.

"And no burdened soul can bear another's burden, and if one heavy laden crieth for (help with) his load, naught of it will be lifted even though he (unto whom he crieth) be of kin. Thou warnest only those who fear their Lord in secret, and have established worship. He who groweth (in goodness), groweth only for himself, (he cannot by his merit redeem others). Unto Allah is the journeying. (18) The blind man is not equal with the seer; (19) Nor is darkness (tantamount to) light; (20) Nor is the shadow equal with the sun's full heat; (21) Nor are the living equal with the dead. Lo! Allah maketh whom He will to hear. Thou canst not reach those who are in the graves. (22)" [35:18/22]

I can only show what God has given me.

Show me your god who showed you. My relation to Allah is without mediator.

May God guide and bless your family as well.

May Allah protect you and grant you the best life and the best after life you and your family.

Edited September 22, 2011 by Happy Forever

[Happy Forever]

Thank you, but no... only God is GREAT!

If there is anything good in me, give praise and thanks to God

All thanks and praises to Allah The Most Merciful, The Greatest for creating this humble great man.

Great is an adjective can be used for humans too.

I will tell a nice thing from Quran.

"Allah" is the name of Allah refers only to Allah with very deep meaning cannot be collected in a mind (miraculous word).

"god" means who is worshipped whether an idol, a son, a human or anything can be refers as god.

"No god but Allah".

"ArRahman" mean The Most Merciful, The All Merciful, The Ever Merciful, these three meanings in one word "ArRahman" and there are more hidden meanings.

This word didn't exist before Islam. We learnt it from Quran. When Meccans first heard it, they were astonished.

This word refers to Allah only cannot be referred to human.

The Creator refers to Allah only not anything else because everything save Him is a creature.

Edited September 22, 2011 by Happy Forever

[OldEnglishSheepdog]

"Truth" is not an easy word. The more you get inito the truth with your given senses, the more your belief becomes stronger.

If you will talk about the truth, then logic must play its role. What is the evidence that there was someone called Adam?

This is complete injustice and falsehood.

Happy,

We're on a thread on evolution, so this is off topic.

I would like to discuss this issue with you, though. Will you meet me on another thread and we will talk about the meaning of truth and logic, please?

[Guest]

What all this has to do with faith vs. science and evolution?

On Worthy Occasionally We Pause For A Message From Our Sponsor

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. Revelation 4:11

The Almighty LORD Jesus Christ, Creator And Savior

That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John 1:9-14

I Know.... We Are So Shameless

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Romans 1:16

[Happy Forever]

What all this has to do with faith vs. science and evolution?

Is there faith without science?!!

Faith is believing in the complete truth, evolution is a myth. So evolution has no place here between faith and science.

[Happy Forever]

What all this has to do with faith vs. science and evolution?

Do you worship evolution?

How do you evolute yourself?!

[Happy Forever]

What all this has to do with faith vs. science and evolution?

Do you worship evolution?

How do you evolute yourself?!

I don't worship anything. Can't you believe in anything without worshipping it?

How I evolved myself? I was an embryo, then a child, then a painful teenager, and then an adult.

And?

Then you witness the greatness of God.