Women Pastors

[apothanein kerdos]

[Where exactly did I attack you? If you could please point this out I'd appreciate it.

I was however attacking the belief. It was thrown out there and I took the liberty to show why it doesn't work. Unless you and the belief are one, I cannot see how I was attacking you.

You are right. I guess I just felt attacked. Feeling and being are two diferent things. Please forgive my accusation.

Naomi :hug:

Eh, not a problem. One thing I do when I get involved in debates that are emotional is try to remove all emotions from my post/words. A lot of times people take it as harshness, but trust me, if I'm involved in a debate, 99% of the time there is no emotion behind my post and I try not to attack the person. I love to stick to the issues in a Biblical debate...so I apologize if I came across as attacking you.

Koppen, I know you are leaving, but if you wish to you can send me a PM with your thoughts on what I offered up for a responce to your objections. It's one thing to say you disagree with people's beliefs, but to label it legalism (without justification) is kind of wrong.

[Ovedya]

Kelli,

I realize that some saints take this issue very personally. I can tell you that in the past whenever this issue has been brought up, someone got offended. I have been "treading lightly" so as to not step too harshly on your toes, because I love you sister. However, legalism is not the issue here either. What we aer really struggling over here is God's word, in my opinion.

[Guest koppen]

Kelli,

I realize that some saints take this issue very personally.

[Ovedya]

Kelli,

I realize that some saints take this issue very personally.

[apothanein kerdos]

Yes it is legalism when it comes to women ministers...and no no one stepped on my toes...It is just very fustrating for me is all...LOL..I also will not argue over scripture..I will post scripture...

How is it legalism? We've yet to establish this. Legalism is taking a part of the word and adding beliefs to it. How are we adding to the scriptures in this instance?

1-Jesus had women disciples (Mark 15:40-41; Matt 27:55-56) (It is

interesting to note that the word used for the women who served

Jesus is "diakoneo," the basic word for "deacon" and it honestly

describes the women that Jesus counted as his disciples.)

Where are you getting your Greek?

Getting to your verses, none of those show that Jesus had female disciples. In fact, Jesus only had twelve disciples. Diakoneo (as established in my previous post) is to refer to curriers, or those that deliver messages. It is not at all the word used for Disciple. mathetes is the Greek word for disciple, not diakoneo. To get even more specific, the word you're using is the verb form of diakonos which is the proper noun form. Either way, the wrong word is being used here.

2-The women stood beside Jesus at the cross (Matt 26:56) "all the

disciples left him and fled"..."except the women"

What does this establish in regards to women in authority?

3-Jesus chose women evangelists to take the message of his

resurrection to his hiding male disciples (Matt 28:1-8)

This is taking it way too literally. They were told to give the message to the apostles. Likewise, this still hasn't established women's roles in authoratative positions.

4-The angel entrusted to the women to tell the disciples (Mark 16:7)

Again, what does this have to do with authority?

5-Christ met the women first and told them to take the word of His

ressurection to his brethren (Matt 28:9-10) Christ purposely chose

women first to carry the good news of the most important event in

history!

Christ purposely met them? In those days it was custom for women to go down to the tomb to prepare the body, not the men. Thus it is natural that Christ would have appeared to the women.

Christ through his blood closed the door to the Old Covenant and ushered in a New Covenant wherein there is neither Jew nor Greek, bond nor free, male or female, only oneness in Christ (Gal 3:28). This verse (Gal 3:28) is the most explosive passage in the Bible! This is the Declaration of Independence and The Emancipation Proclamation for equality among Christians: It is as binding today as it was then. Through Christ, all Christians, regardless of their gender or social status, share in the one Spirit (I Cor 12:13) who blesses all with gifts for the ministry (I Cor 12:7).

I responded to this in my previous post. I'd appreciate that instead of reposting you'd please respond to what I posed.

[Guest koppen]

I am not adding to scripture...period!

[Orr v'emet]

God-Man, thank you for addressing my questions. It gives me something to chew on. I believe the bible is the inspired Word of God and I believe it is the sole authority. I think I see these verses a little differently now. Maybe when I said before that many women "feel" God's calling on their lives I shouldn't have used that word. Many women believe God has called them to be leaders and I don't know if it goes against God's Word as I understand it at this point in time. (not to say I'm right and your wrong.) I appreciate your perspective, your words of wisdom and the manner in which you presented it!

[Shelby]

You know all of this scripture picking should be tempered with love and prayer. It does not feel that way. Porr Koppen, I have been away and see that you have been alone. I have to say that I am surprised GodMan at your posts. I find the questions very leading and somewhat condescending.

To ask a Christian if they believe the Word of God to be infallible, and it was answered YES, then to imply that she must not think so if she is holding to the doctrine she has been lead to by God.

God is calling men and women daily to take up their crosses and follow him. Who are we to judge who he might choose. I am a woman, and I went to seminary, and I have been ordained. I have and will be in a church in a head minister's position. It is not one I take lightly. I have men who work for me now, in various positions that I must instruct, because of my duties. I am not in charge of a church right now, my husband is preparing to enter seminary and after he is through we will go back to serving as ministers again. For now I have a professional job.

There was so much in the way of culture and who was speaking to whom at the time scripture was written. As we search and read the word of God we should not be searching for scriptures to defend our positions, but to pray for the Holy Spirits leading, and keeping in mind the whole message of the Bible.

I have no reason to scripture pick and get lost in semantics. I am a woman who was called by God at an early age, and no matter what I did God still lead me back to the conviction that he had called me. It has never been a question in my mind. God had so many chances to to move in my life and change the course but he didn't.

To ask such things as Koppen is to question the integrity of both her mother, and me and any other minister such as Keslc that is a woman. If God has called us, and we are telling you that we have been lead by him, who are you to question our integrity. Like Mike Irish said, judge us by our fruits. And may you only be judged by the same and not your sex.

I am not a feminist by any means, but I am proud to be a woman, and one who is called by God. Actually humbled at the enormous priveledge, and excited at the opportunities that he has and will provide for me to share His love with every one I come into contact with. This was never a calling I took lightly and do not either, so to see such things written by those who need specific facts, I say, what about the Holy Spirit???? God can use anyone, ANYONE, if they are a willing vessel.

MHO

[apothanein kerdos]

Shelby, all inspirational messages aside, what scripture can you bring forth? Of the responces given, what responce can you give back?

As for your question, the Holy Spirit dictated the Bible to these men who wrote it. Thus to say that culture had play in the writing of the Bible is to deny the power of the Holy Spirit. Also, again, if the Holy Spirit doesn't contradict Himself, how can we assert that our "callings" hold precident over what we know to be infallible scripture?

Also, how is it scripture nitpicking? It's called interpretation. If it were nitpicking, than any person who took the time to look at what the bible actually taught would simply be nitpicking instead of trying to grow in their knowledge. I fail to see how the study of the Bible, the in depth study of the Bible, is wrong. It causes us to become more intimite with God by exploring what He has spoken to us.

[Guest Gladiator4God]

Sorry, no to women pastors.......nothing against women at all the word says what it says on the matter