are you sure?

[ozell]

during this discussion I want to ask the body of Christ are they sure about there faith and doctrine.

I want this to be wide range of topics because the bible and the Words of God is huge and it is a lot we must learn and know about Him and His words.

lets start with these words from Peter

2 Peter 1:10

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

are you sure?

that you are saved now, we have a doctrine that teaches OSAS is this sure

take note:

1 Peter 4:17-19 (King James Version)

¹⁷For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

¹⁸And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? ¹⁹Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

why is the righteous scarcley saved?

who are the righteous?

[ozell]

Matthew 24:13

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Jesus said we are saved in the end.

when is the end?

what should we do with the word shall?

[ozell]

in Genesis 6

out of a whole earth only one man was worthy of saving and by the mercy of God let the other 7 come along

Genesis 6

¹And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

²That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

³And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

⁴There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

⁵And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

⁶And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

⁷And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

⁸But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. ⁹These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

how hard or easy is it to become saved?

[Guest]

Through Faith In His Blood

To Declare His Righteousness For The Remission Of Sins

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Romans 3:19:28

____________

_________

______

___

who are the righteous?

Step ~ The Poor

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:3

By ~ The Grieved

Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. Matthew 5:4

Step ~ The Meek

Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. Matthew 5:5

And Faith To Faith ~ The Hungry

Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. Matthew 5:6

Will Be

Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? Matthew 7:7-9

Fed

Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts. Jeremiah 15:16

[enoob57]

during this discussion I want to ask the body of Christ are they sure about there faith and doctrine.

I want this to be wide range of topics because the bible and the Words of God is huge and it is a lot we must learn and know about Him and His words.

lets start with these words from Peter

2 Peter 1:10

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

are you sure?

Your question lies in what is faith! This written in another place:

We are speaking of Spiritual substance 'faith'... It is a vehicle whereby all cognizance of corporeal reliance is removed and the the tutoring of truths that brought them into being remains. I live in this place of lies but my real home is undefined by where I am, yet, as I live and hope in this becoming my end of beginning ->my life now is seen in the works out of that belief 'The Works of God' through me by belief In His Word...

2 Peter 3:11-13

11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

NKJV

It is the children ready to enter into the fire. For the fire is not the thing to be considered but The One Who before and after all fire. As our Faith grows so also spiritual importance increases... so that we become aliens to this place of lies and we are drawn to that which we are given no ability to relate as to here and there! Truly we have become as the wind that blows for we have no experience from that which we have come nor that we are being taken to but the overwhelming beauty of having placed within us The One Who is in both places...

that you are saved now, we have a doctrine that teaches OSAS is this sure

Once the above is established as reality within ones self ... The greater question is- How can one separate Spirit of God from His Place within? It is He Who has made His Choice our choice... and our choice His! The understanding why-

Rom 8:37-39

37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

NKJV

How can God separate from that which He has joined to Himself and placed His Word as seal upon it?

take note:

1 Peter 4:17-19 (King James Version)

¹⁷For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

¹⁸And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? ¹⁹Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

why is the righteous scarcley saved?

It is understood in Lot's wife- as she was being taken out of the world of sin her heart remained in it and the hearts yearnings are the results of actions taken (sin in disobedience)... As we walk here we are to examine all things and test them to His Word. We in obedience to this will find areas of great worth within BUT His Word says they have no value for they will cease from being! For it is the eternal things we seek (for) they Have Value to Our Eternal Father, Son and Precious Spirit within!

Hence the understanding:

1 John 2:19-21

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

NKJV

who are the righteous?

His Name 'IS' Jesus The Christ and in His Righteousness alone shall He dress me in His Kingdom to Come/ In His Will to be done... this is my righteousness 'His'. Love, Steven

[ozell]

name='FresnoJoe' timestamp='1319260508' post='1733142']

Through Faith In His Blood

To Declare His Righteousness For The Remission Of Sins

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Romans 3:19:28

one question

what law?

ame='ozell' timestamp='1319206598' post='1732885']

who are the righteous?

Step ~ The Poor

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:3

what makes the poor righteous?

By ~ The Grieved

Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. Matthew 5:4

how does mourning make me righteous

Step ~ The Meek

Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. Matthew 5:5

how are the meek meekness righteous?

And Faith To Faith ~ The Hungry

Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. Matthew 5:6

what is the righteosuness that the hunger thirst after

according to the word of God the bible says righteousness is this

Deuteronomy 6

¹Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it: ²That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.

²⁴And the LORD commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day.

²⁵And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

[Guest]

The Teacher

Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;

Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 1 Timothy 1:5-10

And The Taught

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Romans 3:19-28

____________

_________

______

___

.... according to the word of God the bible says righteousness is this

Deuteronomy 6:1-2, 24-25

¹ Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:

2 That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.

24 And the LORD commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day.

25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

The Law

And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. Mark 12:29-31

And The Lawman

I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. Revelation 1:18

And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him. Mark 16:6

The Saved

And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.

Then saith he to Thomas, reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. John 20:26-28

The Humble

For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones. Isaiah 57:15

And The Man Of Grace

I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. Isaiah 42:6-8

____________

_________

______

___

Believe

Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD. Jeremiah 17:5

Believe

Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is. Jeremiah 17:7

And Be Blessed

Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts. Jeremiah 15:16

Beloved

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

Love, Joe

Now also when I am old and grayheaded, O God, forsake me not; until I have shewed thy strength unto this generation, and thy power to every one that is to come. Jeremiah 71:18

[glf]

during this discussion I want to ask the body of Christ are they sure about there faith and doctrine.

I want this to be wide range of topics because the bible and the Words of God is huge and it is a lot we must learn and know about Him and His words.

lets start with these words from Peter

2 Peter 1:10

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

are you sure?

that you are saved now, we have a doctrine that teaches OSAS is this sure

take note:

1 Peter 4:17-19 (King James Version)

¹⁷For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

¹⁸And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? ¹⁹Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

why is the righteous scarcley saved?

who are the righteous?

Hey! Ozell...

Praise the Lord!

Faith grows in us as we put the word of the Lord into our minds(Rom 10:17,Mt13:31&Mt17:20) and when we use it to obtain prayer requests. Even when we have the faith to obtain our request, the Lord will try our faith to add(Jam1:3) perseverance. Faith is that form of believing that is only based upon the Lord's word and will always produce works appropriate to repentance, or will always produce a moral change of behavior, in those who have it. The Lord illuminates his word, here a little, and there a little, making the logos(word) to become rhema(word) of Jesus and this illuminated word is written onto the tablets of our hearts and we learn of the Lord(Jn17:3) as he fulfills his New Covenant promise in us; Heb 8:10-12KJV "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying , Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more."

Faith is also active and not just a belief system. It is meant to be used to obtain the Lord's promises and effect change in the lives of those who are in need and whom the Lord loves so much.

1Cor4:20NAS "For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power."

Gal3:2-5NAS "This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain, if indeed it was in vain? So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?"

Jam2:18KJV "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works." **I imagine that the faith works of an apostle would be miraculous and hard to dispute!**

2Cor12:12 "Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.

1Thes1:5NAS "for our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction; just as you know what kind of men we proved to be among you for your sake."

Act6:8 "And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people."

Mk16:17-20 "And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen."

**What better proof of faith can there be than answered prayer.**

What can we do to make our faith active and more effective? 1st: We fill our minds with the Lord's word and memorize those verses that speak to our hearts. Jesus resisted temptation by the scripture that he committed to memory before the time of temptation. David said by the Spirit in Ps119:11 "Thy word have I hid in my heart that I might not sin against thee."

2nd: We fast. Even after Jesus' disciples we given the ability to cast out demons, they came across one that they were unable to affect. The man asked Jesus to help and cried out in response to Jesus words, "I believe, help thou my unbelief." Jesus then cast out the demon and told his disciples that this kind does not come out but by prayer and fasting. If you really want answered prayer, add fasting to your requests. And again, "Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast."

3rd: Don't stop, Persevere! Let's make each prayer request a prayer project, where we will press the Lord for someone's needed answer until we get it! Jesus told us of an unjust magistrate, who was visited by a widow, asking him to avenge her of her enemy, but he would send her away. After some time, the unjust magistrate said to himself, even though I care not about the Lord or justice, I will avenge her of her adversary because her continual coming wears me down." Jesus then said, "how much more will your heavenly Father hear you." Or here is a verse that is usually taken in the negative, but let's take it as a positive promise and ensnare ourselves with the Lord's word and our own prayer requests! Prov6:2 "Thou art snared with the words of thy mouth, thou art taken with the words of thy mouth."

4th: Let's Add fervency to our prayers because the Lord wants us to want to!!! As we grow closer to the Lord, the Lord shares his heart with us and the love that he has for others grows within us and our motivation to serve grows and our willingness also grows to sacrifice our entertainments in order to do those things needful for success. ie... by working our relationship with the Lord; by filling our minds with the Lord's word and by praying without ceasing. Besides the immediate blessing of gaining that knowledge from the word and having someone blessed by that prayer of faith. Prayer, especially long prayer time increases our sensitivity to the Lord's still small voice and our prayers become more and more focused, wheras when our minds are being filled with the scripture, we are purifying our consciences to perceive sin more and more which means that we will feel guilt for things that we once delighted in which is one of the ways we are being transformed into the predestined image of our savior Jesus Christ, our God and King. **Scriptures will be with us, even in New Jerusalem.**

If I may, I'll have more later regarding your other point...

Greg

Praise the Lord in the name of Jesus, our God and King!

[glf]

in Genesis 6

out of a whole earth only one man was worthy of saving and by the mercy of God let the other 7 come along

Genesis 6

¹And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

²That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

³And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

⁴There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

⁵And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

⁶And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

⁷And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

⁸But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. ⁹These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

how hard or easy is it to become saved?

Shem, Noah's oldest son lived until Jacob was 50 years old and i suspect that he might have been Melchizadec. He was also in line from Noah to Jesus. Another thing about him is that he lived for 100 years with Methuselah, who was alive before Adam died. So, I suspect that he, at least, along with his father Noah be of the Lord.

[ozell]

" name='FresnoJoe' timestamp='1319485280' post='1733914']

The Teacher

Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;

Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 1 Timothy 1:5-10

And The Taught

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Romans 3:19-28"

what law?

there are many laws from God

___

" name='ozell' timestamp='1319452620' post='1733741']

.... according to the word of God the bible says righteousness is this

Deuteronomy 6:1-2, 24-25

¹ Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:

2 That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.

24 And the LORD commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day.

25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

The Law

And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. Mark 12:29-31"

How do I lve God and my neighbour?

how?