Is The Bride the restrainer?

[rollinTHUNDER]

2 Thessalonians 2:3-8 (NASB)

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, [4] who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. [5] Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things? [6] And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he may be revealed. [7] For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. [8] And then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;

Paul was not prophesying an event that would not happen for over 2,000 years or more. Since Thessalonians was written in 52AD he was writing about events that would happen in only 14 years in his future. Josephus tells us that a few days before Passover in 66AD - a bright light was seen leaving the Temple – The Shekinah Glory of God. It moved to the top of the Mount of Olives and remained there for about 3 1/2 years all through the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple. The same identical thing happened before the destruction of Solomon's Temple. Jesus was crucified on this very location around 30AD. On Pentecost 66AD a commotion was heard in the Temple and voices said in unison, "We are departing Hence.” And the Heavenly host left the Temple of God. It was now totally abandoned by God and the restraining Shekinah was now gone.

A short time later the rebellion began in the city. The event that triggered the rebellion is when Eleazar Ben Ananius [the grandson of the Ananius of Jesus' day] convinced the Priests in the Temple to stop offering the daily sacrifices to the Emperor in Rome. This in itself was an act of war. Eleazar was the governor of the Temple. From this point the rebellion escalated [see Josephus]. When the news of the rebellion reached Agrippa II – he dispatched an army to put down the rebellion. While fighting Agrippa's Army in the city the Zealots or terrorists took refuge in the Temple because it was in itself a fortress. These were the two signs that Jesus had told his followers to watch for. The Abomination in the Holy Place and the army around the city. Eleazar was that man of lawlessness that Paul talked about. This is the record of history – it is not Futuristic and does not need to be speculated about at all.

When these two signs appeared in Nissan 66AD – Daniel's clock started running and 1,290 days later the daily sacrifice failed for want of Priests to offer it. This was on Tammuz 17th – a day of infamy in Jewish history. Much to everyone's shock and surprise the Zealots surrendered just 45 days later and the war was over. This was Daniel's 1,335 days. God cut this time short for the elects sake. The obedient Christians had fled in 66AD but I believe that there were many people who came to the realization that Jesus was indeed the Messiah during this time of extreme tribulation – these were the elect.

Although some and maybe even much of this is true, it appears that you are really stretching this scenario to fit your beliefs. I see some major problems with these things. Why would Paul's prophecy have to be fulfilled within 14 years just because it was written in AD 52? Do you realize that some prophecies have still not been fulfilled after over 2500 years? True, it was prophesied that the temple would be destroyed, Jerusalem would become desolate and the Jews would be scattered through out the nations of the world, and what you have written describes that fulfillment. We can all see that, but you are really reaching to stretch this into the fulfillment of the great tribulation. There is a far worse time of trouble and/or tribulation coming in the near future, when (all) nations will be gathered against Jerusalem (Joel 3:2). And when we see this happen, the Roman armies on horseback in AD 70 will look a lot more like a picnic in comparison.

But I will commend you for recognizing that Daniel 12 and Matthew 24 or the Olivet Discourse are very much related and even mirror each other.

Okay, so it appears that you believe that the Shekinah Glory of God is the restrainer. That doesn't bother me, for many believers have lots of different beliefs about this, but to me it doesn't even matter. Now, you also claim that Eleazar Ben Ananius convinced the priests to stop the daily sacrifice to the Emperror of Rome. If this is so, then it appears that he would have been successful at ending an abomination, not beginning one. Did Josephus also say that Eleazar opposed and exalted himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God? If not, this puts a major hole in your theory. But even if he did, this still does not necessarily have to be the fulfillment of the abomination of desolation, because it still may only be a shadow of the future reality to come.

We can know positively that this was not the fulfillment of the abomination of desolation because there are still some major events that are missing that leave gaping holes in your theory. In Daniel 12, after the abomination of desolation in chapter 11, Daniel tells of a time of trouble (tribulation) such as never was since there was a nation in verse (1). But after that trouble, in the very next verse, he tells about the resurrection of many of the dead, when shortly after this he was told to shut up the words and seal the book until the time of the end; many will run to and fro and knowledge would increase. Now fast-forward about 500 years, when Christ would come and bring the increase of knowledge that Daniel was not permitted to know. Christ said that immediately after the tribulation of those days, which would be cut short for the sake of the elect, that we would see a sign with the sun, moon and stars. Then the nations will mourn when they see Him coming in the clouds and then He would send the angels to gather His elect.

So Daniel saw the dead rise but was ordered to stop the prophecy. Then later, Christ came to increase the knowledge that Daniel was given, or to add to it, sending His angels to gather the elect from among those that are still living. Then He gave several clues, two would be in a field, one would be taken and the other left, etc., etc..... Then He hid clues about this mystery in a series of parables, which hold the secrets relating to His return. Now when you add the prophecies of Daniel and Christ together, it appears to be an exact match of what Paul would later say about this mystery:

1 Corinthians 15:51-52

Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I wonder, did Josephus happen to mention anything at all about a resurrection/rapture during the time of the destruction of the temple? If not, I would scrap that theory in a New York second, because it's nothing but a cheap imitation of the real thing to come.

[ENOCH2010]

One major thing were lacking today is the Temple for the man of sin to sit in and proclaim to be God.

[Jasher]

2 Thessalonians 2:3-8 (NASB)

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, [4] who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. [5] Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things? [6] And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he may be revealed. [7] For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. [8] And then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;

Paul was not prophesying an event that would not happen for over 2,000 years or more. Since Thessalonians was written in 52AD he was writing about events that would happen in only 14 years in his future. Josephus tells us that a few days before Passover in 66AD - a bright light was seen leaving the Temple – The Shekinah Glory of God. It moved to the top of the Mount of Olives and remained there for about 3 1/2 years all through the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple. The same identical thing happened before the destruction of Solomon's Temple. Jesus was crucified on this very location around 30AD. On Pentecost 66AD a commotion was heard in the Temple and voices said in unison, "We are departing Hence.” And the Heavenly host left the Temple of God. It was now totally abandoned by God and the restraining Shekinah was now gone.

A short time later the rebellion began in the city. The event that triggered the rebellion is when Eleazar Ben Ananius [the grandson of the Ananius of Jesus' day] convinced the Priests in the Temple to stop offering the daily sacrifices to the Emperor in Rome. This in itself was an act of war. Eleazar was the governor of the Temple. From this point the rebellion escalated [see Josephus]. When the news of the rebellion reached Agrippa II – he dispatched an army to put down the rebellion. While fighting Agrippa's Army in the city the Zealots or terrorists took refuge in the Temple because it was in itself a fortress. These were the two signs that Jesus had told his followers to watch for. The Abomination in the Holy Place and the army around the city. Eleazar was that man of lawlessness that Paul talked about. This is the record of history – it is not Futuristic and does not need to be speculated about at all.

When these two signs appeared in Nissan 66AD – Daniel's clock started running and 1,290 days later the daily sacrifice failed for want of Priests to offer it. This was on Tammuz 17th – a day of infamy in Jewish history. Much to everyone's shock and surprise the Zealots surrendered just 45 days later and the war was over. This was Daniel's 1,335 days. God cut this time short for the elects sake. The obedient Christians had fled in 66AD but I believe that there were many people who came to the realization that Jesus was indeed the Messiah during this time of extreme tribulation – these were the elect.

Although some and maybe even much of this is true, it appears that you are really stretching this scenario to fit your beliefs. I see some major problems with these things. Why would Paul's prophecy have to be fulfilled within 14 years just because it was written in AD 52? Do you realize that some prophecies have still not been fulfilled after over 2500 years? True, it was prophesied that the temple would be destroyed, Jerusalem would become desolate and the Jews would be scattered through out the nations of the world, and what you have written shows that it was fulfilled. We can all see that, but you are really reaching to stretch this into the fulfillment of the great tribulation. There is a far worse time of trouble and/or tribulation coming in the near future, when (all) nations will be gathered against Jerusalem (Joel 3:2). And when you see this happen, the Roman armies on horseback in AD 70 will look a lot more like a picnic in comparison.

But I will commend you for recognizing that Daniel 12 and Matthew 24 or the Olivet Discourse are very much related and even mirror each other.

Okay, it appears that you believe that the Shekinah Glory of God is the restrainer. That doesn't bother me, for many believers have lots of different beliefs about this, but to me it doesn't even matter. Now, you also claim that Eleazar Ben Ananius convinced the priests to stop the daily sacrifice to the Emperror of Rome. If this is so, then it appears that he would have been successful at ending an abomination, not beginning one. Did Josephus also say that he opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God? If not, this puts a major hole in your theory. But even if he did, this still does not have to be the fulfillment of the abomination of desolation, because it still may only be a shadow of the future reality to come.

We can know positively that this was not the fulfillment of the abomination of desolation because there are still some major events that are missing that leave gaping holes in your theory. In Daniel 12, after the abomination of desolation chapter 11, Daniel tells of a time of trouble (tribulation) such as never was since there was a nation in verse (1). But in the very next verse, he tells about the resurrection of many of the dead, when shortly after this he was told to shut up the words and seal the book until the time of the end; many will run to and fro and knowledge would increase. Now fast forward about 500 years, when Christ would come and bring the increase of knowledge that Daniel was not permitted to know. Christ said that immediately after the tribulation of those days, which would be cut short for the sake of the elect, that we would see a sign with the sun, moon and stars. Then the nations will mourn when they see Him coming in the clouds and then He would send the angels to gather His elect.

So Daniel saw the dead rise but was ordered to stop the prophecy. Then later, Christ came to increase the knowledge that Daniel was given, or to add to it, sending His angels to gather the elect from among those that are still living. Then He gave several clues, two would be in a field, one would be taken and the other left, etc., etc..... When you add the prophecies of Daniel and Christ together, it appears to be an exact match of what Paul would later say about this mystery:

1 Corinthians 15:51-52

Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I wonder, did Josephus happen to mention anything at all about a resurrection/rapture during the time of the destruction of the temple? If not, I would scrap that theory in a New York second, because it's nothing but a cheap imitation of the real thing to come.

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my post.

[taylor30]

The restrainer is technically multiple answers. In one word the RAPTURE releases the antichrist. Here are the reasons for this.

#1. The church disappears at the rapture.

#2. The Holy Spirit is within the church, so it leaves too.

So the restainer is the church & God.

It can't be anything else. Even Michael the most powerful Angel can't beat Satan, so it has to be God.

[Floatingaxe]

2 Thessalonians 2:7

For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.

The bible refers to the one who restrains as 'He'. The Bride of Christ is a 'she' and not a 'He', and only God can be the one who takes out of the way. The one who restrains is Holy Spirit, who is removed with the Church, in whom He dwells.

[joi]

If the Holy Spirit is removed from the earth, how then do people get saved during the tribulation?

[Floatingaxe]

If the Holy Spirit is removed from the earth, how then do people get saved during the tribulation?

During that time all things earthly revert back to the time before Christ while God deal with Israel--to the Law. How were people declared righteous before Christ?

[joi]

If the Holy Spirit is removed from the earth, how then do people get saved during the tribulation?

During that time all things earthly revert back to the time before Christ while God deal with Israel--to the Law. How were people declared righteous before Christ?

I suppose that is a possibility. . . and is actually the best explanation I have heard on this particular matter, so far.

[mizzdy]

If the Holy Spirit is removed from the earth, how then do people get saved during the tribulation?

During that time all things earthly revert back to the time before Christ while God deal with Israel--to the Law. How were people declared righteous before Christ?

I suppose that is a possibility. . . and is actually the best explanation I have heard on this particular matter, so far.

The law didnt declare anyone righteous, it was never meant as a tool of salvation. Its always been faith that brings us into a relationship with Him, not the Torah, nor any legal obedience to anything. Its only by His grace, through faith and through His Spirit that we are saved. God didnt give Abraham a covenant based on anything but faith, not even the 'sign' of circumcision was about salvation. Revert back to the time before Messiah? we are already there in most countries. How did God deal with Adam and Eve before Israel? how did God deal with Moses, Issac, Jacob, the 12 sons? By sending His Spirit, His Son, God is not going to take away His voice on this earth ever. God didn't declare anyone righteous by the Torah, Torah is instructions for daily living not for salvation.

shalom,

Mizz

[OneLight]

If the Holy Spirit is removed from the earth, how then do people get saved during the tribulation?

During that time all things earthly revert back to the time before Christ while God deal with Israel--to the Law. How were people declared righteous before Christ?

I don't see this as correct. Who will seal us in Him? Who will convict the world of sin? Who will teach us all truth? Who will empower us in service? Who will be here to witness to the lost?

I have not been of the school of pre-trib or mid-trib rapture for more years then not. I don't know when the rapture will occur, but I don't see in scripture that we will be taken away before the tribulation. I believe that God will protect His own during times of trouble, not remove us when the tribulation comes, or the beast appears.