enoob57 Posted February 10, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,434 Content Per Day: 8.00 Reputation: 21,581 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Re: 2 Messages, 1 Day- Your Discernment FIRST MESSAGE FROM MAURICE SKLAR: “And now you know WHAT IS RESTRAINING him (from being revealed at this time) (the antichrist); it is so that he may be manifested (revealed) in his own (appointed time). For the mystery of lawlessness (that hidden principle of rebellion against constituted authority) is already at work in the world, (BUT IS) RESTRAINED ONLY UNTIL HE (OR THAT) WHICH RESTRAINS IS TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY. And then the lawless one (the antichrist) will be revealed and the Lord Jesus will slay him with the breath of His mouth and bring him to an end by His appearing at His coming.” 2 Thessalonians 2:6- 8 (Amplified Bible) More at link above I am working on the link. would you like a hammer and chisel or file and saw... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exrockstar Posted February 10, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,673 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 111 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/21/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 10, 2012 People do follow Christ until the very end. The two Prophets and the 144,000 are for the Jewish people. What about the rest of the world? Risking their lives to save/help them is one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny balerio Posted February 10, 2012 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 57 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/04/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted February 10, 2012 If the Holy Spirit is removed from the earth, how then do people get saved during the tribulation? During that time all things earthly revert back to the time before Christ while God deal with Israel--to the Law. How were people declared righteous before Christ? I don't see this as correct. Who will seal us in Him? Who will convict the world of sin? Who will teach us all truth? Who will empower us in service? Who will be here to witness to the lost? I have not been of the school of pre-trib or mid-trib rapture for more years then not. I don't know when the rapture will occur, but I don't see in scripture that we will be taken away before the tribulation. I believe that God will protect His own during times of trouble, not remove us when the tribulation comes, or the beast appears. How were all the OT believers sealed? How were they convicted of their sin? The two prophets. The 144,000. They were not. Can you show me where it states in scripture where Christ removes Himself and His Spirit during the last seven or three and a half years? I can show scripture where He says that He will never leave nor forsake us. People do follow Christ until the very end. The two Prophets and the 144,000 are for the Jewish people. What about the rest of the world? Some object to this being the Holy Spirit on the grounds that to katechon in 2 Thessalonians 2:6 is neuter ("what is holding back"). But this is no problem for two reasons: (a) The neuter is sometimes used of the Holy Spirit (John i14:26; 15:26; 16:13-14). (b) In 2 Thessalonians 2:7 the words are masculine: ho katechōn , the one who . . . holds it back. How does He do it? Through Christians, whom He indwells and through whom He works in society to hold back the swelling tide of lawless living. How will He be taken out of the way? When the church leaves the earth in the Rapture, the Holy Spirit will be taken out of the way in the sense that His unique lawlessness-restraining ministry through God's people will be removed (Gen. 6:3). The removal of the Restrainer at the time of the Rapture must obviously precede the day of the Lord. Paul's reasoning is thus a strong argument for the pretribulational Rapture: the Thessalonians were not in the Great Tribulation because the Rapture had not yet occurred. http://www.spiritandtruth.org/teaching/ ... pture.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joi Posted February 10, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 506 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 1,922 Content Per Day: 0.41 Reputation: 173 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/12/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 would you like a hammer and chisel or file and saw... And you are just noticing this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted February 10, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.21 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 10, 2012 If the Holy Spirit is removed from the earth, how then do people get saved during the tribulation? During that time all things earthly revert back to the time before Christ while God deal with Israel--to the Law. How were people declared righteous before Christ? I don't see this as correct. Who will seal us in Him? Who will convict the world of sin? Who will teach us all truth? Who will empower us in service? Who will be here to witness to the lost? I have not been of the school of pre-trib or mid-trib rapture for more years then not. I don't know when the rapture will occur, but I don't see in scripture that we will be taken away before the tribulation. I believe that God will protect His own during times of trouble, not remove us when the tribulation comes, or the beast appears. How were all the OT believers sealed? How were they convicted of their sin? The two prophets. The 144,000. They were not. Can you show me where it states in scripture where Christ removes Himself and His Spirit during the last seven or three and a half years? I can show scripture where He says that He will never leave nor forsake us. People do follow Christ until the very end. The two Prophets and the 144,000 are for the Jewish people. What about the rest of the world? Some object to this being the Holy Spirit on the grounds that to katechon in 2 Thessalonians 2:6 is neuter ("what is holding back"). But this is no problem for two reasons: (a) The neuter is sometimes used of the Holy Spirit (John i14:26; 15:26; 16:13-14). (b) In 2 Thessalonians 2:7 the words are masculine: ho katechōn , the one who . . . holds it back. How does He do it? Through Christians, whom He indwells and through whom He works in society to hold back the swelling tide of lawless living. How will He be taken out of the way? When the church leaves the earth in the Rapture, the Holy Spirit will be taken out of the way in the sense that His unique lawlessness-restraining ministry through God's people will be removed (Gen. 6:3). The removal of the Restrainer at the time of the Rapture must obviously precede the day of the Lord. Paul's reasoning is thus a strong argument for the pretribulational Rapture: the Thessalonians were not in the Great Tribulation because the Rapture had not yet occurred. http://www.spiritandtruth.org/teaching/ ... pture.html I understand this as the stance of those who believe in the Pre-Tribulation Rapture, yet when looking at the timetable, this time mentioned is half way through the tribulation, so it's stance for pre-trib does not hols. It would be more of a Mid-Tribulation Rapture stance. Though He does seal us and is in us, I believe there is more to this then can be explained in the manner you are doing. Being taken out of the way does not have to mean being fully removed, but just moved, to allow to happen. The Greek uses the words ho katechOn, as you mentioned, which only means the one-detaining, so we are in agreement here. Where we may differ is what does it mean to no longer detain. To look deeper, we also have to consider other pieces of scripture that speaks of the last trumpet, as in 1 Corinthians 15:52. Since there is no last trumpet when the one detaining no longer detains, I cannot agree that this means the rapture. By the way, your link only leads to a page on the site and not to a topic. Can you post it again with the full URL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted February 10, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,434 Content Per Day: 8.00 Reputation: 21,581 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted February 10, 2012 would you like a hammer and chisel or file and saw... And you are just noticing this? Hey I'm peddling as fast as I can ... Thank God it is He Who will gather I might be really far back from the rest ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joi Posted February 11, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 506 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 1,922 Content Per Day: 0.41 Reputation: 173 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/12/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 11, 2012 Hey I'm peddling as fast as I can ... Thank God it is He Who will gather I maight be really far back from the rest ... I can relate. . ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry 2 Posted February 23, 2012 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 791 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 205 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 23, 2012 I believe he who restrains is the bride of Christ taken prior to the judgment of the tribulation. It will not be the Holy Spirit lest none be saved, and our Father and Jesus are in heaven. A similar scenario might be in Genesis Chapter Nineteen when Lot lived in Sodom, and had to be removed prior to its judgment. Genesis 19:22 Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do any thing till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar. (Lot's place of refuge) 19:23 The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar. 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven. Compare the following scripture. KJV - 2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. NIVUS -2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. NAS95 - 2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. Genesis 19:22 Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do any thing till thou be come thither. My thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted February 23, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.21 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 23, 2012 Yet, all through the New Testament, the church is called the bride, a feminine word, not a he, a manly word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry 2 Posted February 23, 2012 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 791 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 205 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 23, 2012 Yet, all through the New Testament, the church is called the bride, a feminine word, not a he, a manly word. Women are portrayed to represent religious bodies in scripture; good and bad. Jeremiah 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also. The word "He" when not knowing the gender is acceptable in English grammar. A preferable word in this case would have been "Them or they." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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