Can science go forward...

[Isaiah 6:8]

In another thread, it was put forth that America could not keep its science edge because people believed in a young earth.

Personally I find that insulting, as that one field of study is not needed to...

build a computer, Build an airplane, build a rocket, or chart the planets movements, or to find new medicines, or many other fields.

Also the following people were Christians, and as far as I know creationists, though history does not leave us what they believed on that, but since evolution really did not have a hold as it does to day its safe to assume.

Sir Issac Newton, Robert Boyle, Johannes Kepler , George Washington Carver, The Wright brothers and Samuel Morse. So you are saying they could not have done what they did if they did not believe in evolution?

No Science does not need evolution, in any way shape or form.

[~candice~]

Is it really appropriate to measure the scientific standing of a nation by measuring the opinion of the common man? I really think the scientific ability of a nation is measured on what their scientists believe and discover.

[nebula]

This shift has already started: the focus of fundamental experimental physics research has moved from North America to Europe (Geneva). And considering the discussions concerning teaching ID and creationism in American biology classes, I am afraid that this is only the beginning.

I have to disagree with you, Viole.

The problem with American science education has nothing to do with the Creation/Evolution battle.

The problem is our entire education system is broken.

In my county, biology high school students are required to know more about the life cycle of bacteria and fungi than they are the human body. I have students entering my college Anatomy & Physiology labs who don't know where to find the stomach!

School curriculum are more interested in teaching our students how to be "correct" socially than how to read, write, and perform math correctly.

I could go on and on....

[Exaeus]

Is it really appropriate to measure the scientific standing of a nation by measuring the opinion of the common man? I really think the scientific ability of a nation is measured on what their scientists believe and discover.

Except that the "opinion of the common man" is an indicator of how effective out education system is. As D-9 has pointed out, it's highly unlikely that a nation will remain scientifically competitive if its children are being brought up to reject science in favor of false beliefs. Even now there's already the worrying trend that America is basically "importing" its scientists from immigrants, instead of having key positions in the American scientific community staffed by Americans: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/24/immigrants-science_n_866321.html

[joi]

Is it really appropriate to measure the scientific standing of a nation by measuring the opinion of the common man? I really think the scientific ability of a nation is measured on what their scientists believe and discover.

Except that the "opinion of the common man" is an indicator of how effective out education system is. As D-9 has pointed out, it's highly unlikely that a nation will remain scientifically competitive if its children are being brought up to reject science in favor of false beliefs. Even now there's already the worrying trend that America is basically "importing" its scientists from immigrants, instead of having key positions in the American scientific community staffed by Americans: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/24/immigrants-science_n_866321.html

Just one of the 'rewards' of all that hope and change we have now.

[Isaiah 6:8]

evolution is the theory of biology that holds it together, it is the atomic theory of chemistry. If biologists are afraid to talk about the theory that makes biology make sense, what's next?

Really, well considering creationist Christians were some of the founding fathers of those fields including Robert Boyle, How does this work? Proof please. I don't need to know a whit about evolution to learn how a frog jumps or how electrical current is moved through the nervous system. As for as Chemistry, really how much do I need to know about evolution to use everyday chemistry in baking? That is chemistry. You don't need to know evolution to produce plastics, and glass?

Quite an emotional response from all of you on a "Science" question.

[Isaiah 6:8]

Except that the "opinion of the common man" is an indicator of how effective out education system is. As D-9 has pointed out, it's highly unlikely that a nation will remain scientifically competitive if its children are being brought up to reject science in favor of false beliefs. Even now there's already the worrying trend that America is basically "importing" its scientists from immigrants, instead of having key positions in the American scientific community staffed by Americans: http://www.huffingto...e_n_866321.html

Wow, that was not a great proof. That link was about immigration and how immigrates veiw education and how they apply themselves, in.... Drumroll please The United States Educational System!

See article.

In 2004, for example, researchers found that 60 percent of the top science students in the U.S. and 65 percent of the top math students were born to immigrant families.

So do you have any proof outside of you hating the thought of Creationism/I.D. being taught?

[Isaiah 6:8]

Except that the "opinion of the common man" is an indicator of how effective out education system is. As D-9 has pointed out, it's highly unlikely that a nation will remain scientifically competitive if its children are being brought up to reject science in favor of false beliefs. Even now there's already the worrying trend that America is basically "importing" its scientists from immigrants, instead of having key positions in the American scientific community staffed by Americans: http://www.huffingto...e_n_866321.html

Wow, that was not a great proof. That link was about immigration and how immigrates veiw education and how they apply themselves, in.... Drumroll please The United States Educational System!

See article.

In 2004, for example, researchers found that 60 percent of the top science students in the U.S. and 65 percent of the top math students were born to immigrant families.

So do you have any proof outside of you hating the thought of Creationism/I.D. being taught?

Oh and the winners....

Born and raised in the US.

http://www.societyfo...ment.doc?id=309

[Isaiah 6:8]

Isaiah,

this goes beyond the mere discussion about evolution. And i would not extrapolate the future from the past. Rome and Greece were also the beacons of western cultural civilization a long time ago (incidentally, would that imply that philosophy would not exist if it wasn't for those Zeus/Jupiter believers?).

Actually if it were not for Christian creationists such as Robert Boyle, we would not have what we have now. The point is this, you can have science with out evolution. You can be smart with out evolution.You can make scientific progress... without evolution.

Believing that the universe is some thousands years old flies in the face with all we know about science. You can believe it, but I do not see how you can even read a layman scientific magazine without seeing huge contradictions with this view.

That would imply that all we know about

- Physics

Sir Issac Newton

- Cosmology

- Astronomy

Johannes Kepler

- Geology

- Anthropology

- Paleontology

- Biology

Louis Pasture

How would it imply that? Really, all we know? You are stretching a lot and exaggerating a lot. This is an emotional response not a scientific one, please provide actual proof not wild emotional. statements with no bearing on fact. I have inserted in red some of the people who helped start or were extremely important to what we know of those fields. You can not take away from what they learned, as it is the foundation on which we have been building.

is wrong by 6 orders of magnitude (one million factor), surely not a deviation that falls into the expected experimental error range. It would be like saying that the width of North America is a couple yards.Um again massive emotional exaggeration.

Um again massive emotional exaggeration. Not based in fact with no facts to back it up.

I could never embrace science if it makes predictions that are so massively wrong from what I think is true.

If it is really the case that a certain nation holds beliefs which are so distant from the result of science, then I do not see the motivation for this nation to keep on financing such "useless" research. If I firmly believed that North America is a couple of yards wide and science tells me that I am wrong by a factor 1 million, why should I invest my taxes on science?

I would agree if that was a fact, however it is not a fact.

This shift has already started: the focus of fundamental experimental physics research has moved from North America to Europe (Geneva).

Okay, and...

And considering the discussions concerning teaching ID and creationism in American biology classes, I am afraid that this is only the beginning.

Ciao

- viole

Again there is Zero Correlation between thinking the earth/universe is thousands of years old and a lack of scientific progress or interest.

[Exaeus]

Wow, that was not a great proof. That link was about immigration and how immigrates veiw education and how they apply themselves, in.... Drumroll please The United States Educational System!

See article.

Hmm, I think I must've had several tabs open in Firefox and posted the wrong link by mistake. Thanks for pointing it out, here's the one I meant to post instead: http://www.prb.org/Articles/2011/usforeignbornstem.aspx

So do you have any proof outside of you hating the thought of Creationism/I.D. being taught?

Given how you're stooping to such antagonistic ad hominems, Isaiah, I think it's safe to say that you resent the claim that religion makes people unscientific. You want to be seen as scientific and progressive, yet you also want at the same time to cast aside science when it doesn't fit in with your preconceived beliefs. Well, I guess I'd be frustrated too if I ever found myself in in the same Catch-22 as you.