A further gleaning into the Charcter of Our Lord

[enoob57]

(This OP is predicated upon the fact that sin began in satan as the father of it and God is totally 100% not responsible for sin...)
so if you disagree just don't comment here because the thread is past that point and is seeking the purpose of wrath and hatred in God apart from sin...

I was having a conversation with Shiloh357 and trying to resolve an understanding I hold of God's Person...
Here is the search:Did anger and wrath exist in God before sin originated in satan?If so what was its purpose?Will wrath and anger exist in God in the eternal state?

[nebula]

If I may translate your question:

Did "character" exist in God before it had a reason to be expressed?

[enoob57]

If I may translate your question:

Did "character" exist in God before it had a reason to be expressed?

No I understand character as person hood? I have always related personally to Him but always held His fullness beyond my ability of completely knowing!

No I am trying to see if Scripture supports that hatred and wrath began in God's righteousness at the time of satan's turning from God and bringing forth sin or is it is an eternal part of His Character... which I would have to rearrange some of my concepts of Him to a more proper light

I will clear some of this up by explaining where my heart is!

1 Jn 4:7-11

7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. 9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. 10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.

NKJV

What helps me upon the path of understanding the above is 1Cor 13... and this is seen In Christ clearly from Birth to Death of God The Son.

1 Jn 4:12-16

12 No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us. 13 By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world. 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16 And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him.

NKJV

In salvation we are born into God's Love and are to Know God fully through this Love and righteousness and holiness but wrath and hatred where is it's place after the eternal state has began will it remain in the lake of fire that abides forever?

I have this understanding that satan in his fatherhood of sin also brought from God's holiness and righteousness wrath and hatred as judgment for sin and is always seen throughout Scripture exercised toward sin and the fullness was brought against Jesus on the Cross! Now in the Church age we imitate Christ 's love to others that they may see also the Love of God in us and desire it for themselves and ask from Christ His presence in them as well... the last thing to be done at the end 'Great White Throne of final judgment death, sin, angels, fallen unrepentant man the second death are cast into the lake of fire into eternity and are then swallowed up by God and then God takes all of the corporeal and burns it completely up and a New Heaven and a New Earth and the New Jerusalem and the eternal state in the Unity requested by The Son in John 17 the eternal state...

[Guest shiloh357]

No I understand character as person hood?

No, character is not personhood. Character amounnts to a set of qualities that distinguishes you as a perons. Character refers to attributes of honesty, integrity, kindness, hatefulness, vindictiveness, jealousy, etc. Character can be good and bad. It is important to note that God has character as well and all his attributes are held by Him in perfection and in immutability. Whatever attributes God has today He has always had and always will have.

I have always related personally to Him but always held His fullness beyond my ability of completely knowing!

He is beyond knowing completely, but He has given us a lot of information about Himself. He knowable to the extent He has revealed Himself to us in His Word.

No I am trying to see if Scripture supports that hatred and wrath began in God's righteousness at the time of satan's turning from God and bringing forth sin or is it is an eternal part of His Character... which I would have to rearrange some of my concepts of Him to a more proper light

If God changes in any area, He could change in all areas. If God is one way today and another way tomorrow, what is to stop Him from having a change of heart about something that is important to us like salvation? We rely on a God who unchanging and always consistent.

I have this understanding that satan in his fatherhood of sin also brought from God's holiness and righteousness wrath and hatred as judgment for sin and is always seen throughout Scripture exercised toward sin and the fullness was brought against Jesus on the Cross!

Sorry, but the grammar of that sentence is rather convoluted, as is the remainder of your post. Not really clear what you are trying to say.

[enoob57]

No, character is not personhood. Character amounnts to a set of qualities that distinguishes you as a perons. Character refers to attributes of honesty, integrity, kindness, hatefulness, vindictiveness, jealousy, etc. Character can be good and bad. It is important to note that God has character as well and all his attributes are held by Him in perfection and in immutability. Whatever attributes God has today He has always had and always will have.

So you are saying that personhood can exist with no character distinctive what so ever?

If God changes in any area, He could change in all areas. If God is one way today and another way tomorrow, what is to stop Him from having a change of heart about something that is important to us like salvation? We rely on a God who unchanging and always consistent.

Your saying for God to cease from wrath and hatred would denote change of character... why could it not cease because God's Holiness and Righteousness no longer needed that expression due to the putting away of sin?

Love seems to be the only requirement in the eternal state fulfilling all other characteristics of God ... 'God is love'...

[nebula]

If I may translate your question:

Did "character" exist in God before it had a reason to be expressed?

No I understand character as person hood?

You've got me lost here.

char·ac·ter  [kar-ik-ter]

noun

1. the aggregate of features and traits that form the individual nature of some person or thing.

2. one such feature or trait; characteristic.

3. moral or ethical quality: a man of fine, honorable character.

4. qualities of honesty, courage, or the like; integrity: It takes character to face up to a bully.

5. reputation: a stain on one's character.

Source

No I am trying to see if Scripture supports that hatred and wrath began in God's righteousness at the time of satan's turning from God and bringing forth sin or is it is an eternal part of His Character... which I would have to rearrange some of my concepts of Him to a more proper light

Can wrath exist without a cause?

But can wrath be a substance that is created?

So I mean, that's what it sounds like you are asking?

[Guest shiloh357]

shiloh357, on 07 January 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

No, character is not personhood. Character amounnts to a set of qualities that distinguishes you as a perons. Character refers to attributes of honesty, integrity, kindness, hatefulness, vindictiveness, jealousy, etc. Character can be good and bad. It is important to note that God has character as well and all his attributes are held by Him in perfection and in immutability. Whatever attributes God has today He has always had and always will have.

So you are saying that personhood can exist with no character distinctive what so ever?

No, I am simply saying that you are misdefining character as personhood.

Your saying for God to cease from wrath and hatred would denote change of character...

No, that is not what I am saying. I am saying that God's attributes are as eternal as He is and that they have always existed in Him regardless if there was a need and/or occasion to express them. God will always hate sin whether there is any sin to hate or not, because God doesn't change. God's character/attributes never change or disappear.

why could it not cease because God's Holiness and Righteousness no longer needed that expression due to the putting away of sin?

Because God doesn't change. God will be just as holy when sin is no longer here as He is now. Nothing about God changes. Why can you not understand that basic principle about God???

Love seems to be the only requirement in the eternal state fulfilling all other characteristics of God ...

I think is more about what you want to believe rather than what the Bible actually says.

[enoob57]

Can wrath exist without a cause?

But can wrath be a substance that is created?

So I mean, that's what it sounds like you are asking?

well that would get a jump on things! Shiloh seems to reason that it is God's Character... Your answers to the above would at least define the directives a little better... especially exist without cause! yes or no and why... Love, Steven

[Guest shiloh357]

Can wrath exist without a cause?

But can wrath be a substance that is created?

So I mean, that's what it sounds like you are asking?

well that would get a jump on things! Shiloh seems to reason that it is God's Character... Your answers to the above would at least define the directives a little better... espeacially exist without cause! yes or no and why... Love, Steven

Wrath is not an attribute of God. God hates sin and always has. That is is what constitutes God's character. Wrath speaks to the outworking of God's hatred of sin. Honestly Steve, there is no reason to make this more complicated than it is.

[nebula]

Can wrath exist without a cause?

But can wrath be a substance that is created?

So I mean, that's what it sounds like you are asking?

well that would get a jump on things! Shiloh seems to reason that it is God's Character... Your answers to the above would at least define the directives a little better... espeacially exist without cause! yes or no and why... Love, Steven

No one gets angry without something to be angry at.

But the ability and potential are there.

Was the Lord wrathful at anything before Satan's rebellion? Well, since we have no idea what did or did not exist before this time, we can't know!

But was it in God's character and nature to become angry? I don't see why not.