Resurrection body of women?

[gdemoss]

She is saved IN childbearing; she is not saved BY childbearing.

Hi shiloh357! Nice to meet you. I was reading the thread as it is an interesting topic, and I saw what you posted and wanted to make sure that you knew that the word translated 'in' is also correctly translated as 'by'. The ratio is 1902 'in' to 163 'by' so it does carry more weight as 'in' but cannot be counted out as 'by'. That said, a great point was brought up earlier about those women who do not marry and bear children as they cannot be saved 'by childbearing'. As was pointing out in 1 Cor 7, women not given in marriage so that they can serve the Lord with their whole life is considered a very worthy objective. I just try to remember that our 'works' are just that, they are our 'works'. Our 'works' will either justify our faith or they will condemn us as not having true saving faith which is all that matters. So when Paul makes a statement like this and says she will be 'saved' in childbearing, what's not to say that in this particular case that these aren't the 'works' that justify her faith? But only for those who are married and raising children unto the Lord. Either way it is the 'grace' that saves through 'faith' justified by 'works'. All we need is convicting evidence that proves we believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who died for our sins and is Lord over all. Paul spoke similarly in Philippians when he said that their prayer and the supply of the spirit of Christ would turn to his salvation. The spirit who teaches me, leads me to believe that Paul is simply pointing out that all that prayer is a cloud of witnesses for him that he is indeed a Christian.

Anyway, just some food for thought. I hate to see someone holding a position by using a single word when that particular word can be rightly translated either way. for what it is worth, God bless you in all of your studies.

Gary

[Ephesians__6_24]

seeing as there are female evil angels...

when did they become female? or were they always female?

were they female when they were created?

I would like to see scripture about female angels outside of the vision in Zech 5. Visions are not reality. They have meanings that relate to reality, but they are not reality in and of themselves.

Acts 19:27 - Diana

1 Kings 11:5 - Ashtoreth

Jeremiah 7:18 - "the queen of heaven"

Malachi 2:11 - "the daughter of a strange god"

Edited February 11, 2012 by Ephesians__6_24

[OneLight]

seeing as there are female evil angels...

when did they become female? or were they always female?

were they female when they were created?

I would like to see scripture about female angels outside of the vision in Zech 5. Visions are not reality. They have meanings that relate to reality, but they are not reality in and of themselves.

Acts 19:27 - Diana

1 Kings 11:5 - Ashtoreth

Jeremiah 7:18 - "the queen of heaven"

Malachi 2:11 - "the daughter of a strange god"

Diana is a false goddess, not an angel.

Ashtoreth is also a false goddess, not an angel.

The "queen of heaven" is another false god and not an angel.

Malachi 2:11 also talks of a false god, not an angel.

False gods or goddesses are not angels. They are false deities. Angels are real entities. There is a vast difference between the two.

[ayin jade]

I am hoping I am misreading your words and that you are not saying an ugly message that I think you are saying.

Are childless married women not saved even when they know Jesus?

Are women incapable of being saved and resurrected as women?

[Guest]

I am hoping I am misreading your words and that you are not saying an ugly message that I think you are saying.

Are childless married women not saved even when they know Jesus?

Are women incapable of being saved and resurrected as women?

Simply

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world. John 11:25-27

Jesus

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. John 6:47

[OneLight]

May I ask who you are questioning Jade?

[Ephesians__6_24]

seeing as there are female evil angels...

when did they become female? or were they always female?

were they female when they were created?

I would like to see scripture about female angels outside of the vision in Zech 5. Visions are not reality. They have meanings that relate to reality, but they are not reality in and of themselves.

Acts 19:27 - Diana

1 Kings 11:5 - Ashtoreth

Jeremiah 7:18 - "the queen of heaven"

Malachi 2:11 - "the daughter of a strange god"

Diana is a false goddess, not an angel.

Ashtoreth is also a false goddess, not an angel.

The "queen of heaven" is another false god and not an angel.

Malachi 2:11 also talks of a false god, not an angel.

False gods or goddesses are not angels. They are false deities. Angels are real entities. There is a vast difference between the two.

- "Ashtoreth"

- Hebrew: "עשׁתּרת"

- BDB definition:

Transliterated: "`Ashtoreth"

Ashtoreth = star

1. the principal female deity of the Phoenicians worshipped in war and fertility

a. also 'Ishtar' of Assyria and 'Astarte' by the Greeks and Romans

It is a "proper name feminine"

- Strong's definition:

Ashtoreth the Phoenician Goddess of love (and increase): - Ashtoreth.

- "goddess"

- Hebrew: "אלהים"

- BDB definition:

Transliterated: "'elohiym"

1. (plural)

a. rulers, judges

b. divine ones

c. angels

d. gods

2. (plural intensive - singular meaning)

a. god, Goddess

b. godlike one

c. works or special possessions of God

d. the (true) God

e. God

- Acts 19:27 indicates "...the great goddess Diana..."

- A female angel (goddess).

- "Diana"

- Greek: "Ἄρτεμις"

- Thayer Definition:

Transliterated: "Artemis"

Diana = complete light: flow restrained

Origin: probably from the same as "Artemon" - a top-sail or foresail of a ship.

"Artemis" is a feminine noun.

- Strong's definition:

Artemis the name of a Grecian Goddess borrowed by the Asiatics for one of their deities: - Diana.

- "goddess"

- Greek: "θεά"

- Thayer definition:

Transliterated: "thea"

a Goddess

"thea" is a feminine noun.

1 Corinthians 10:20 indicates that "the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God"

1 Corinthians 10:19 says: "is that which is offered in sacrifice to idols any thing? "

- Are devils and idols used as synonyms in 1 Corinthians 10:19-20?

________________________________________________________________________

Deuteronomy 4:19

Indicates that the sun, the moon and the stars are the host of heaven.

1 Kings 22:19

states:

"I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left."

________________________________________________________________________

- Is "the host of heaven" indicating angels standing by the LORD?

1 Kings 22:19-21

And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.

And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.

And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.

- Psalm 104:4 indicates that The LORD makes His angels spirits.

_________________________________________________________________________

Job 31

²⁶If I beheld the sun when it shined, or the moon walking in brightness;

²⁷And my heart hath been secretly enticed, or my mouth hath kissed my hand:

²⁸This also were an iniquity to be punished by the judge: for I should have denied the God that is above.

- Would this passage be indicating Idolatry?

"my heart hath been secretly enticed" when "I beheld the sun when it shined, or the moon walking in brightness"

___________________________________________________________________

Revelation 12

¹And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

²And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

³And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

⁴And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

-- Is this referring to satan?

Daniel 8:10

it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.

-- Is this referring to satan?

-- Satan "wast perfect in [his] ways from the day that [he] wast created, till iniquity was found in [him]." (Ezekiel 28:15)...

-- ...Then did his tail draw a third part of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth (to be worshipped)?

his tail drawing the third part of the stars of heaven, and casting them to the earth

- Hence:

"the temple of the great goddess Diana should be despised, and her magnificence should be destroyed, whom all Asia and the world worshippeth." Acts 19:27

Ashtoreth - 1 Kings 11:5

1 Corinthians 15

⁴⁰There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

⁴¹There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

- Why does it end talking about celestial and terrestrial bodies with starting with: "There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars" ?

_____________________________________________________________________

Michael is the "archangel" (Jude 1:9)

Michael is also "one of the chief princes" (Daniel 10:13) ("one star differeth from another star in glory.")

Matthew 25:41 indicates that the devil has angels.

Psalm 78:49 indicates that there are "evil angels".

Isaiah 14:13

For [Lucifer] hast said in [his] heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God

...(verse 15) Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

...one star differeth from another star in glory...

(could "one star differeth from another star in glory" relate to Lucifer... - does Lucifer have glory...)

- Isaiah 14:15 indicates no glory for Lucifer... "brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit"

__________________________________________________________

Exodus 32

¹And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.

²And Aaron said unto them, Break off the golden earrings, which are in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring them unto me.

³And all the people brake off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them unto Aaron.

⁴And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

⁵And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD.

⁶And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play.

⁷And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves:

⁸They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

Deuteronomy 32

¹⁵But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation.

¹⁶They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger.

¹⁷They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.

Would you say that Deuteronomy 32:17 is referring to Exodus 32:8?

If it is so;

- Do you see how it says "devils" in Deuteronomy 32:17, but it says "gods" in Exodus 32:8?

Edited February 11, 2012 by Ephesians__6_24

[ayin jade]

I am hoping I am misreading your words and that you are not saying an ugly message that I think you are saying.

Are childless married women not saved even when they know Jesus?

Are women incapable of being saved and resurrected as women?

Im asking this of Ephesians__6_24.

[Ephesians__6_24]

I am hoping I am misreading your words and that you are not saying an ugly message that I think you are saying.

Are childless married women not saved even when they know Jesus?

Are women incapable of being saved and resurrected as women?

- Could the following be the answer to the question:

Since woman is of the first Adam (Genesis 2:22, 1 Corinthians 11) (who is a figure of Christ - Romans 5:14)...being led by The Spirit of God (Romans 8:14) and The Son of God (Luke 3:38) made in God's likeness and image (Genesis 1:26).

Could it therefore be the same in the resurrection (women being "of the first Adam" (Christ)--still being women?)

(And is this what it means in Galatians 3:28 when it says: "there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." ?)

- What could 1 Timothy 2:15 mean then? - women being saved "in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety."

To better understand...

- Was woman made after or before the disobedience?

- Was Adam "the son of God" (Luke 3:38) before or after the disobedience?

____________(1 Samuel 2:12 indicates that there can be "sons of Belial", which would make them not the "sons of God"...)

- Does "being led by the Spirit of God" make one a son of God (Romans 8:14)?

- God gives the Holy Spirit to whom (Acts 5:32)?

Now,

Romans 5:19

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

- The Spirit remains on Christ (John 1:33),

- "...the Father hath not left [Christ] alone; for [Christ] [does] always those things that please [The Father]." John 8:29

- "God hath given [the Holy Ghost] to them that obey him." (Acts 5:32)

The first Adam is a figure of Christ (Romans 5:14), being made in the image of God (Genesis 1:26), being led by the Spirit of God (Romans 8:14), being the Son of God (Luke 3:38)...

- Now, I will ask again "was woman made after or before the disobedience?"

The answer is before...

Woman is of the First Adam (figure of Christ).

Seeing as Woman is of Adam (the figure of Christ)

would this explain Galatians 3:26-29

how that male and female are one in Christ...

1 Corinthians 15:38 explains it well:

But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed [God's] own body.

God gives the seed a body as it has pleased him... and to every seed his own body...

If you have ever planted something... say for example you plant a tomato plant...

you don't plant the tomato plant (body) in the ground... you plant the seed... and afterwards comes the "body"

seed=natural

body=spiritual

"that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual." (1 Corinthians 15:46)

(1 Corinthians 15:44 - It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.)

every seed...

1 Corinthians 15:38 states that God giveth the seed a body as it has pleased him... so... God gives the women's natural (earthy) body a resurrection body as it has pleased him.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Ephesians__6_24

[Ephesians__6_24]

New question:

are we raised a spiritual body?

1 Corinthians 15:44 indicates that "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body."

- How would this explain Luke 24:39?

1 Corinthians 15:44 - "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."

Luke 24:39 - "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

- Is this the resurrected body of the saints? How could Christ have flesh and bones ("...as ye see me have [flesh and bones]") ?

---- I started a post on this same subject....

click to be directed.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Ephesians__6_24