gdemoss Posted March 12, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.99 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Show me one place in scripture where God said it was a good idea for man to elect his own leadership and I will start voting. The only place I see God saying anything like this is to appoint servants who will serve food to the widows and needy in the church. All of the early church leadership were appointed by God through his Apostles and those they appointed to appoint others. I challenge anyone to show biblical evidence to support the common man voting in his leadership. Even Christ avoided man when he understood that they would take him by force and appoint him king. The mistake Israel made was desiring a king and rejecting God. I will not make such a mistake but will have Christ as my King. Gary Hi Gary, I am not talking about appointing men to positions in the church. I'm talking about our secular government. I don't know of any scripture addressing secular government . Israel was wrong when they asked for a King because in doing so they wanted to be like the other nations at the expense of God's desire for them. We already have a secular government, and while the voting card is put before me I will vote according to the leading of the Spirit. If you have any scriptures you believe tells us not to vote I am interested in reading them. God bless, Andy This is a very difficult topic for sure. There are no scriptures that directly say do not vote or do not participate in a democratic system of government etc. I make my decisions based upon the lack of any scripture suggesting that self-government is a government approved of by God. I reject any government that doesn't recognize that Jesus Christ is the supreme authority in heaven and earth. I reject any official seeking office who doesn't adhere to law of Christ himself. I am not responsible for the one who gets elected just because I don't approve of any of the choices, instead I choose to accept the name calling, bashing etc that comes from rejecting the system in place for the system that is coming to replace it. I honestly fear that if I chose to place a leader over me that isn't inline with biblical principle that I will have to give an account at the judgment seat of Christ for all that I have helped that person to achieve in their time of power. I am of the opinion that the people of the earth are looking toward man for solutions through government rather than God and in the end God gives them what they want. They get Antichrist for rejecting God as their ruler. I don't plan to be here for that, nor take any part in electing antichrists (types) into power over the nation that I live in. Just not going to happen. We each are responsible for doing what we believe is right in Gods eyes. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted March 12, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.99 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Show me one place in scripture where God said it was a good idea for man to elect his own leadership and I will start voting. The only place I see God saying anything like this is to appoint servants who will serve food to the widows and needy in the church. All of the early church leadership were appointed by God through his Apostles and those they appointed to appoint others. I challenge anyone to show biblical evidence to support the common man voting in his leadership. Even Christ avoided man when he understood that they would take him by force and appoint him king. The mistake Israel made was desiring a king and rejecting God. I will not make such a mistake but will have Christ as my King. Gary God put each governmental entity in place. Scripture says nothing about many things that we do daily, and yet, we still do them. This forum and the Internet is just one example. To say that we don't need to vote because the Bible does not specifically mention voting is ludicrous. In this country, our right to vote was paid for, in blood, just as our salvation was, so to treat that right with contempt is to also treat those who died to give us those rights with contempt as well. When you have the ability to influence whether you get Godly government or non-godly government, it's kind of stupid to blow off that ability by concocting some kind of holier-then-thou smoke screen as to why one does not vote. People wring their hand over the state of our country when many of them will not lift a finger when it comes to determining who runs the country. I find that both ironic and irresponsible. Your insults are unnecessary but expected may it be between you and the Lord. Gary Gary, There was no insult in that post. Reaction also expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted March 12, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.10 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted March 12, 2012 IF WE HAD AN OPPOSITION PARTY THAT WOULD HOLD HIM TO ACCOUNT! We don't - and that, dear lady - is the problem. That is why I will never - ever support Romney, or the GOP. Blessings! -Ed Nor will I....and the numbers are growing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted March 12, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted March 12, 2012 Show me one place in scripture where God said it was a good idea for man to elect his own leadership and I will start voting. The only place I see God saying anything like this is to appoint servants who will serve food to the widows and needy in the church. All of the early church leadership were appointed by God through his Apostles and those they appointed to appoint others. I challenge anyone to show biblical evidence to support the common man voting in his leadership. Even Christ avoided man when he understood that they would take him by force and appoint him king. The mistake Israel made was desiring a king and rejecting God. I will not make such a mistake but will have Christ as my King. Gary God put each governmental entity in place. Scripture says nothing about many things that we do daily, and yet, we still do them. This forum and the Internet is just one example. To say that we don't need to vote because the Bible does not specifically mention voting is ludicrous. In this country, our right to vote was paid for, in blood, just as our salvation was, so to treat that right with contempt is to also treat those who died to give us those rights with contempt as well. When you have the ability to influence whether you get Godly government or non-godly government, it's kind of stupid to blow off that ability by concocting some kind of holier-then-thou smoke screen as to why one does not vote. People wring their hand over the state of our country when many of them will not lift a finger when it comes to determining who runs the country. I find that both ironic and irresponsible. Your insults are unnecessary but expected may it be between you and the Lord. Gary Gary, There was no insult in that post. Reaction also expected. Explain please Glenn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Honestly confused! If you can vote but aren't, why? Mostly because Americans haved become lazy and disintrested and uninformed politically. I vote, but many younger people don't know much when it comes to politics and to be frank, they don't care. They can tell you everything you never wanted to know about their favorite rap artist or whatever, but can't identify the Vice President or Speaker of the House. A minority of the Nation casts ballots at any given election. Most youth can list a litany of supposed rights that they have, but can't tell you a thing about the Constitution or who even holds local office let alone National ones. I have noticed that. It's like everything else. Politicians and others bank on general disinterest, ignorance and indifference. The problems within our government stem from people refusing to vote. We as citizens need to take a more active role in how our country is governed. If the politicians don’t think we are paying attention, they will do what they want and sell us all down river in the process. This is a government of people by the people and for the people and it is time that the people took more interest in and responsibility for how they are governed. We, through our indifference, have allowed our leaders on both sides of the aisle to take too much power to themselves. Instead of representing us and our interests to Washington, they have donned the mantle of the ruling elite and now represent Washington and its interests to us and in doing so have turned a deaf ear to their constituency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted March 12, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.99 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Show me one place in scripture where God said it was a good idea for man to elect his own leadership and I will start voting. The only place I see God saying anything like this is to appoint servants who will serve food to the widows and needy in the church. All of the early church leadership were appointed by God through his Apostles and those they appointed to appoint others. I challenge anyone to show biblical evidence to support the common man voting in his leadership. Even Christ avoided man when he understood that they would take him by force and appoint him king. The mistake Israel made was desiring a king and rejecting God. I will not make such a mistake but will have Christ as my King. Gary God put each governmental entity in place. Scripture says nothing about many things that we do daily, and yet, we still do them. This forum and the Internet is just one example. To say that we don't need to vote because the Bible does not specifically mention voting is ludicrous. In this country, our right to vote was paid for, in blood, just as our salvation was, so to treat that right with contempt is to also treat those who died to give us those rights with contempt as well. When you have the ability to influence whether you get Godly government or non-godly government, it's kind of stupid to blow off that ability by concocting some kind of holier-then-thou smoke screen as to why one does not vote. People wring their hand over the state of our country when many of them will not lift a finger when it comes to determining who runs the country. I find that both ironic and irresponsible. Your insults are unnecessary but expected may it be between you and the Lord. Gary Gary, There was no insult in that post. Reaction also expected. Explain please Glenn. Simple explanation. I expected the reaction from others to be that they see nothing wrong in what was said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Show me one place in scripture where God said it was a good idea for man to elect his own leadership and I will start voting. The only place I see God saying anything like this is to appoint servants who will serve food to the widows and needy in the church. All of the early church leadership were appointed by God through his Apostles and those they appointed to appoint others. I challenge anyone to show biblical evidence to support the common man voting in his leadership. Even Christ avoided man when he understood that they would take him by force and appoint him king. The mistake Israel made was desiring a king and rejecting God. I will not make such a mistake but will have Christ as my King. Gary Hi Gary, I am not talking about appointing men to positions in the church. I'm talking about our secular government. I don't know of any scripture addressing secular government . Israel was wrong when they asked for a King because in doing so they wanted to be like the other nations at the expense of God's desire for them. We already have a secular government, and while the voting card is put before me I will vote according to the leading of the Spirit. If you have any scriptures you believe tells us not to vote I am interested in reading them. God bless, Andy This is a very difficult topic for sure. There are no scriptures that directly say do not vote or do not participate in a democratic system of government etc. I make my decisions based upon the lack of any scripture suggesting that self-government is a government approved of by God. I reject any government that doesn't recognize that Jesus Christ is the supreme authority in heaven and earth. I reject any official seeking office who doesn't adhere to law of Christ himself. I am not responsible for the one who gets elected just because I don't approve of any of the choices, instead I choose to accept the name calling, bashing etc that comes from rejecting the system in place for the system that is coming to replace it. I honestly fear that if I chose to place a leader over me that isn't inline with biblical principle that I will have to give an account at the judgment seat of Christ for all that I have helped that person to achieve in their time of power. I am of the opinion that the people of the earth are looking toward man for solutions through government rather than God and in the end God gives them what they want. They get Antichrist for rejecting God as their ruler. I don't plan to be here for that, nor take any part in electing antichrists (types) into power over the nation that I live in. Just not going to happen. We each are responsible for doing what we believe is right in Gods eyes. Gary Gary, if that is your position, then it is reasonable to expect you to internally consistent with that position, right? If it is wrong to elect these people, then I assume that it would be equally right for you not take advantage of any benefits their progams and policies might afford? In other words, you will not take any benefits from social security?? And you should also not accept any tax cuts or any other good thing that might come from an elected official. In fact, isn't morally unacceptable for you to be a citzen of a country that elects "antichrist types?" IF it is a sin to vote for them, then isn't equally a sin to live under them as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted March 12, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 I'm not sure I'd like the compulsory voting thing; I mean, come on, if you don't want to vote then just don't. I think people SHOULD vote but, as is the case more and more often, if you don't like ANY of the candidates then it's not right to have to vote anyway. What if both are pro-abortion, Buddhist Communists? How could a believer vote? Why did Australia pass such a law? Both are currently against gay rights, though the Liberal party is more opposed. Given they would both roll over with the slightest voter pressure and approve it, I don't think they are that different. We already have legalised abortion to the point where it's not even an election issue and no one is trying to repeal it. It is illegal not to vote so I don't break the law but we all view our votes differently... we aren't approving of the person of whom we vote for, we are just choosing the best from a list, or voting against the worst from a list. That's why I wonder why you guys don't vote... surely if you can't make a vote FOR someone, you can use your vote against someone who is the worst??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted March 12, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 Alright, this baffles me, so clue me in on what logic you are using. I live in a country with compulsory voting and none of the candidates are suitable. None of the candidates meet all the requirements [anti abortion, anti gay marriage, chaplains in schools, etc]. I legally must vote for someone whose ideals are different to mine, I have no choice. So I look a little different at the value of my vote. I also know that NOT voting [or in my case, donkey voting] is in essence a vote for the ruling party, and I think it can be a bit of a cop out to not vote [or donkey vote], claim that you are not supporting immorality, when in reality your lack of vote supports that same immorality anyway. See what I mean? If none of the candidates in the upcoming American election are suitable (and from what I've read, none of them really are) then refusing to vote at all (in essence a vote for the ruling party) can be worse than voting for the least immoral candidate. Honestly confused! If you can vote but aren't, why? Candice, I've talked to you before and mentioned my friend and former co-worker who is Australian. It was he who told me about your compulsory voting system - something I had never heard of. If it's the law where you live that you must vote, then that settles it. Unless you see it as a matter of conscience not to - then I suppose you must suffer the consequences of breaking the law. But please allow me to take a very roundabout way to address your questions. As I do so, please understand that I speak for myself - and myself, only. You will find that there are many Christians who will vehemently disagree with what I say. That's fine - I look at it as a matter that comes under grace - and leave it at that. First off, I've voted in most every US presidential election since 1972. After I became a Christian around 1980-81, the pro-life issue became paramount to me - so that (for me) ruled out ever voting for a democrat. There were years where it was very difficult to pull the GOP lever. The years that the Bushes (father and son) and Bob Dole ran come to mind. But in the end, the argument that usually won me over was this one: "Who do you want nominating Supreme Court Justices (and by extension, at least keeping alive the chance that Roe v. Wade would eventually be overturned)" So let's look at some of the justices that the GOP has put up: Oh, there have been some good ones. Clarence Thomas, Antonin Scalia, Roberts, Alito. But for every Thomas, there seems to be a Souter (a disaster). For every Alito, there seems to be a Sandra Day O'connor. And don't forget, it was a GOP nominated judge (Harry Blackmun, appointed by Nixon) who gave us "Roe" in the first place. I've come to the conclusion that the GOP panders to its conservative "base" just as bad as the democrats pander to their gay, lesbian and whatever else (disabled space aliens?) base. In fact, the GOP is worse because it never seems to deliver on its "promises", while the dems (mostly because of a lack of a true opposition party) always seem to deliver on theirs. To wit - the most radical nominees the democrats put up (Ruth Bader Ginzburg, for example) meet NO opposition - not even token - while the dems ALWAYS oppose the rep nomees (they succeeded with Bork but failed with Thomas - but they tried.) You see - I can justify "not voting" because I have come to the conclusion that there really is no opposition party. News flash! The reps are as much for abortion as the dems - else they would have overturned Roe by now (there are other, congressional ways to overturn it if the reps were interested in doing so) The reps are as much for "big government" as the dems. They just give the appearance they are not. Else why - even during the most conservative president that could ever be elected (Reagan) did government GROW? Here's another news flash: Obamacare IS NOT going to be overturned - even if the reps win the election. The reps have been wanting nationalized health care as long as the dems have - and once government gets hold of something it does not let go willingly. In the unlikely event that the Supreme Court stikes down portions of it, rest assured that "bi-partisanship will reign" and reps and dems will work together to fix it! For the good of the children, of course. To answer your question "well, if you don't cast a vote, is that not the same as voting for the ruling party?". That argument is made every election cycle, and it will be made during this one. You could make a case for that - IF one party really represented a change (or difference) from the other. But as I've already explained, to me the reps are simply "democrat lite". Romney's policies will be no different that Obama's (in areas that matter). In fact, I could make a case that one of the reasons we (conservatives) keep getting such miserable candidates (like Dole, the Bushes, McCain, and now probably Romney) is that in the end we DO support them by showing up on election day. The republican party has not paid the price (of conservatives staying home in droves) for nominating such losers. To close: I despise Obama's policies, and I see him as a disaster as president. But I am coming to the point where I despise the GOP as much - or even more. Here's why: Every day, it seems we wake up to the fact Obama (and the dems) have done something else that's unconstitutional. He appoints people without congressional approval (by using some bogus recess appointment trick) He rules like a king (or dictator). He has utter contempt for congressional checks and balances and for the Constitution. But you know what? The last time I checked (Obama notwithstanding) we still - in theory, anyway - live under a constitution. A constitution that Obama can be held to account for. IF WE HAD AN OPPOSITION PARTY THAT WOULD HOLD HIM TO ACCOUNT! We don't - and that, dear lady - is the problem. That is why I will never - ever support Romney, or the GOP. Blessings! -Ed That was a brilliant post and I now understand why you don't vote. But that doesn't explain why you think I should break the law? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted March 12, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 Show me one place in scripture where God said it was a good idea for man to elect his own leadership and I will start voting. The only place I see God saying anything like this is to appoint servants who will serve food to the widows and needy in the church. All of the early church leadership were appointed by God through his Apostles and those they appointed to appoint others. I challenge anyone to show biblical evidence to support the common man voting in his leadership. Even Christ avoided man when he understood that they would take him by force and appoint him king. The mistake Israel made was desiring a king and rejecting God. I will not make such a mistake but will have Christ as my King. Gary God put each governmental entity in place. Scripture says nothing about many things that we do daily, and yet, we still do them. This forum and the Internet is just one example. To say that we don't need to vote because the Bible does not specifically mention voting is ludicrous. In this country, our right to vote was paid for, in blood, just as our salvation was, so to treat that right with contempt is to also treat those who died to give us those rights with contempt as well. When you have the ability to influence whether you get Godly government or non-godly government, it's kind of stupid to blow off that ability by concocting some kind of holier-then-thou smoke screen as to why one does not vote. People wring their hand over the state of our country when many of them will not lift a finger when it comes to determining who runs the country. I find that both ironic and irresponsible. Your insults are unnecessary but expected may it be between you and the Lord. Gary Gary, There was no insult in that post. I concur. Gary there was nothing insulting said, and that is just as I would have expected . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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