mizzdy Posted April 24, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 173 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,911 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 10 Joined: 03/21/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted April 24, 2012 Everyone I know who hears from the Lord hear Him from their hearts, not their heads. This is why left-brained people have a hard time connecting with the spiritual realm. We want a god and a theology that can be sliced and diced and put under a microscope an categorized into neat little boxes pleasing to our understanding. But God doesn't work that way! Biblical theology ought to be about how to live, yet all our theologians care about is how to think. And thus we have the theology of this arguing with the theology of that and both against the theology of the other thing. But where does that leave you? Has your theology healed the sick or raised the dead or comforted the wounded? Has your theology brought you closer to the heart of the Father? Has your theology softened your heart to love your neighbor? So we have a mega-thread here on the make-up of God . . . what has it done for your faith? The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are distinct, and yet their are one. How can this be? Jesus is the Son of God, yet He is God. How can this be? But do we have to understand it in order to believe it? But the problem here is this: The nature of God is outside our natural laws, yet with our understanding we try to make the nature of God fit into our natural laws in order to make sense out of Him. And that's the problem with this whole debate. Classification is the naturalism-based scientific way of doing things. But the spiritual realm doesn't operate under the rules of naturalism-based science. Amen Neb! Head knowledge is useful but heart knowledge is better, it is through our hearts that He rules and reigns, it is after all the seat of our will and that is something we all strive to do is align our will with His. We need to find a balance in our lives and learn to rely on Him a bit more instead of all those who try to tell us what to do or how to do it. Wonderful post! shalom, Mizz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 shiloh357, on 24 April 2012 - 06:38 AM, said: Theology is a codification of the revelation of Scripture, not a man-made belief. If only that were always true. It is always true. I find that most christians don't know the difference between theological commentary and the scriptures. I know how it upsets you when I disparage that approach, but I still prefer just quoting the scriptures instead of debating theological perspectives. LOL, I am not upset at all. The problem is that you are judging theology by those who are not the best practitioners of it. It would be nice if we could live in a pure and pristine world where you can just quote the Scriptures and that would be enough. That world doesn't exist, and it won't exist this side of Millenium. Anyone can "quote" Scripture and make the Bible say anything they want it to say. It takes a proper thelogical handling of Scripture to show others the differece between Westboro Baptists and us. It takes a theologically skilled handling of Scripture to combat anti-Semitism. It takes real theology to have an adequate response to Replacment Theology. Theology is not an empty intellectual exercise, nor is it "religious." It is how the Holy Spirit impacts the mind of the believer. You use theology all of the time, but you have anti-intellecutal bias toward it because you can't seem to view it in any way except through that narrow lense. So many of the great Christian theologians advocated or committed murder, for example. Actually that was the product of a misapplication of Scripture, not theology. Theology just seems so "religious". Yuck. Because you don't understand it and how it works. God used theologians to provide us with good translations of the Bible. God has used theologians to combat the excesses of the RCC. He has used theology and theologians in many ways to properly educate believers. It was theologians who went to the US capitol and secured the First Ammendment and Bill of Rights for all Americans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saved34 Posted April 24, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,185 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 667 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/28/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/19/1971 Share Posted April 24, 2012 God is a unified whole I could propose arguements for a quartenary, a quinternity, a sexternary, a septernary, and so forth but One is One no matter how many moving parts are isolated. Yes, but "Echad" (the Word used for One in the original hebrew) means a plurality of One, as when two become one in marriage. "Yachid" is the hebrew word for a single one and, strangely, that word is never used to describe God. "Elohim" is another word used for God. It's is a plural word. If it were translated literally into english it would have to be "judges" because we don't have a word like that in english. In fact, what I wrote isn't really hebrew, it's transliterated hebrew for english speakers. The original hebrew letters speak volumes all by themselves! Each letter is itself a picture, a number, and a musical notation. A slight stroke of a pen adds to the definition in a way that isn't always possible to translate with a single word...and you have to use a phrase instead. Much of the problems I see in greco-western theology are ones of definition and usage of the original language because hebrew is much more precise. In the newer coverant writings, you have hebrew speakers translated into greek, then greek translated into latin, german, and/or english. Sometimes those translations are from each other (german, latin, or english) instead of the original language. In fact, translating from the greek without considering what the original hebrew word must have been will also produce error in many cases. . lol That was some great use of Theology there, dear brother. And Shiloh, your posts are like food to my soul. Not simply because we are so close in beliefs, but I'm actually learning things I did not Know. I can literally listen or read good teaching like that all day long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted April 24, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted April 24, 2012 If God wanted to do something that was contrary to the known laws of nature, wouldn't he be acting against himself? (A house divided.) But how do you know He is actually breaking any laws? When the Red Sea was divided, it was through a strong wind: Ex. 14:21 - Then Moses stretched out his hand over the sea, and all that night the LORD drove the sea back with a strong east wind and turned it into dry land. The Lord doesn't have to change the rules to make something happen. He can tweak the environment to His pleasure to do things that would not have occurred on their own. We do this all the time where we can (i.e. cloud seeding). The Lord just has abilities to make them work that we can't, including at the subatomic level. Multiplying food? Command the cells to divide. (Something like that.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Everyone I know who hears from the Lord hear Him from their hearts, not their heads. This is why left-brained people have a hard time connecting with the spiritual realm. We want a god and a theology that can be sliced and diced and put under a microscope an categorized into neat little boxes pleasing to our understanding. But God doesn't work that way! I think this confuses issues. The study of God is as much an intellectual approach as it is a spiritual approach. God is unsearcable and there is much about Him that can't be fully known or understood, but the sometimes the joy is in the search. I would rather find people studying trying to understand God to the extent it is possible in this reality to understand Him, than for them to be indifferent about Him altogether. Granted God, can't be put under microscope, but He invites us to question to learn about Him, to test His words. Biblical theology ought to be about how to live, yet all our theologians care about is how to think. And thus we have the theology of this arguing with the theology of that and both against the theology of the other thing. But theology IS about how to live as well as aout how to think. Theologians don't live in ivory towers and I think you have a very skewed perception of theologians. Theology is also about the application of the truth of Scripture to our lives. How to think and how to live are two wings of the same bird. Knowledge and application compliment each other. They are not opposite concepts. The problem is that is the people who have spent no time in the theological community seem to have donned the mantle of trying to define theology and theologians and so we get this notion that theologians spend all of their time in classrooms and dusty old library backrooms and are completely out of touch with the real world. But where does that leave you? Has your theology healed the sick or raised the dead or comforted the wounded? Has your theology brought you closer to the heart of the Father? Has your theology softened your heart to love your neighbor? It has fed hungry people, it has helped build homes for people who lost their homes in natural disaster. It has brought relief to battered and abused women and children and has restored marriages and preached salvation to the lost. So we have a mega-thread here on the make-up of God . . . what has it done for your faith? The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are distinct, and yet their are one. How can this be? Jesus is the Son of God, yet He is God. How can this be? But do we have to understand it in order to believe it? No, but we should aspire to learn what the Bible teaches about it nonetheless. But the problem here is this: The nature of God is outside our natural laws, yet with our understanding we try to make the nature of God fit into our natural laws in order to make sense out of Him. And that's the problem with this whole debate. I see a different problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted April 24, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted April 24, 2012 About theology - something to consider: 2 Timothy 2:15 - Spoudazo to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. Most here would say that spoudazo means "study", correct? Well, it doesn't. Spoudazo Strong's Number: 4704 Definition > to hasten, make haste > to exert one's self, endeavour, give diligence Thus, "Study to shew thyself approved unto God" as we all have heard rather ought to be translated as, "Be diligent to to shew thyself approved unto God". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 About theology - something to consider: 2 Timothy 2:15 - Spoudazo to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. Most here would say that spoudazo means "study", correct? Well, it doesn't. Spoudazo Strong's Number: 4704 Definition > to hasten, make haste > to exert one's self, endeavour, give diligence Thus, "Study to shew thyself approved unto God" as we all have heard rather ought to be translated as, "Be diligent to to shew thyself approved unto God". Yeah, that's old news. What is your point in all of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted April 24, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Everyone I know who hears from the Lord hear Him from their hearts, not their heads. This is why left-brained people have a hard time connecting with the spiritual realm. We want a god and a theology that can be sliced and diced and put under a microscope an categorized into neat little boxes pleasing to our understanding. But God doesn't work that way! I think this confuses issues. The study of God is as much an intellectual approach as it is a spiritual approach. God is unsearcable and there is much about Him that can't be fully known or understood, but the sometimes the joy is in the search. I would rather find people studying trying to understand God to the extent it is possible in this reality to understand Him, than for them to be indifferent about Him altogether. Granted God, can't be put under microscope, but He invites us to question to learn about Him, to test His words. Sure, but what about Him are you trying to understand? While yes, there are those who have wrong ideas about who Jesus is in terms of the Godhead, it makes so much more sense to just accept that Jesus is both God and the Son of God without trying to explain how that can somehow make sense to our natural thinking. Notice how this whole issue never came up in the New Testament among the Jews? Biblical theology ought to be about how to live, yet all our theologians care about is how to think. And thus we have the theology of this arguing with the theology of that and both against the theology of the other thing. But theology IS about how to live as well as aout how to think. Theologians don't live in ivory towers and I think you have a very skewed perception of theologians. Theology is also about the application of the truth of Scripture to our lives. How to think and how to live are two wings of the same bird. Knowledge and application compliment each other. They are not opposite concepts. The problem is that is the people who have spent no time in the theological community seem to have donned the mantle of trying to define theology and theologians and so we get this notion that theologians spend all of their time in classrooms and dusty old library backrooms and are complete out of touch with the real world. My respect for theologians declined rapidly when I took Bible classes at a Christians liberal arts college. The theologian we had for a professor told us on day 1 that the Bible is not the word of God and here is why.... As I got older, I began to tire of sermons. Why? I've listened to so many of them for so long all my life that after a while they all sounded the same, telling me principles I've heard a million times. But then I heard one pastor (only one!) on the radio who actually preached on how to actually apply the Scripture in the nitty-gritty applications of life - not a re-hash of principles, but teaching how to put them into practice n real-life scenarios, often basing them on his own life! We need a lot more of that. But you have to dig to find such. The greatest commands are to love, yet how many Christians are taught by theologians how to love? I don't mean teaching a sermon on 1 Cor. 13, but how to make it real on a day to day basis. (Please, someone teach me how to love in rush hour traffic!!!) But where does that leave you? Has your theology healed the sick or raised the dead or comforted the wounded? Has your theology brought you closer to the heart of the Father? Has your theology softened your heart to love your neighbor? It has fed hungry people, it has helped build homes for people who lost their homes in natural disaster. It has brought relief to battered and abused women and children and has restored marriages and preached salvation to the lost. How did theology do any of that, except for the last one? How did theology give food or build homes? I'm not following your train of thought. So we have a mega-thread here on the make-up of God . . . what has it done for your faith? The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are distinct, and yet their are one. How can this be? Jesus is the Son of God, yet He is God. How can this be? But do we have to understand it in order to believe it? No, but we should aspire to learn what the Bible teaches about it nonetheless. And then do what with that knowledge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted April 24, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted April 24, 2012 About theology - something to consider: 2 Timothy 2:15 - Spoudazo to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. Most here would say that spoudazo means "study", correct? Well, it doesn't. Spoudazo Strong's Number: 4704 Definition > to hasten, make haste > to exert one's self, endeavour, give diligence Thus, "Study to shew thyself approved unto God" as we all have heard rather ought to be translated as, "Be diligent to to shew thyself approved unto God". Yeah, that's old news. What is your point in all of that? Hey, I just learned that a couple months ago! This verse is used to encourage people to study Scripture because of the word "study." Yet that isn't what Paul wrote. Does the Bible show the Lord more interested in your intellectual thoughts or in your behavior? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saved34 Posted April 24, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,185 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 667 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/28/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/19/1971 Share Posted April 24, 2012 About theology - something to consider: 2 Timothy 2:15 - Spoudazo to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. Most here would say that spoudazo means "study", correct? Well, it doesn't. Spoudazo Strong's Number: 4704 Definition > to hasten, make haste > to exert one's self, endeavour, give diligence Thus, "Study to shew thyself approved unto God" as we all have heard rather ought to be translated as, "Be diligent to to shew thyself approved unto God". Neb, the thought is still expressed. "Accurately handling the word of truth" . 2Ti 2:15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. 2Ti 2:15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth. 2Ti 2:15 Do your best to present yourself to God as an approved worker who has nothing to be ashamed of, handling the word of truth with precision. Surely you are not saying a believer should not "study" God's word? 2Ti 3:15 From infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures that are able to give you the wisdom you need for salvation through faith in the Messiah Jesus. 2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 2Ti 3:17 so that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good action. 1Pe 2:2 Like newborn babies, thirst for the pure milk of the word so that by it you may grow in your salvation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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