I don't understand the trinity

[godrulz]

Katy, what group, website, author, leader, etc. do you identify with? Your views are not far off from JWs.

Jn. 1:1-14 shows that Word/Logos is a title for Christ, not generic 'truth' (though Jesus is the Truth). To claim to be Son of God was a claim to equality with God (hence the Pharisees wanted to stone Him for blasphemy, mere man claiming to be God/equal with God). Your view is condemned Arianism.

[Guest]

Only By The Grace Of God Would We Know The SON

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. 1 Corinthians 12:3

Thank You My LORD My Jesus

My God And My Master

And I Love You So

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Hebrews 1:8

Forgive Them LORD For They Know Not What They Do

To Your Holy Name

In Jesus'

Amen

~

lol my friend, you misunderstand me when I say Orthodox Christianity. I'm talking about all those born again believers throughout Church history who have fought against all manner of heresies and false teachings, especially when it comes to our Lord. The Church is the pillar and the ground of the truth, and it has always fought against this kind of thinking. Whether you know it or not, you are a part of Orthodox Christianity, or you are a part of a cult. To teach that Christ was a lesser creature in his pre incarnation is false, to not understand that Christ in taking on him the flesh of man, is why he is subject to the Father in all things, and lesser than the Father is at the heart of the confusion.....

You spend a lot of words to say little, Saved34. It seems that you may be calling me a heretic....

Apparently you are a heretic and I belong to a cult.

What kind of cult believes that Jesus is the s son (Blaspheming removed by Joe) of God, born to a virgin, was killed on a cross as a sacrifice for mankind's sins, rose the third day? That's the cult I am a member of....

Hairy

And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.

In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: Genesis 15:17-18

Tick

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Isaiah 44:6

Or

For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called. Isaiah 54:5

No

For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye.

For, behold, I will shake mine hand upon them, and they shall be a spoil to their servants: and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me.

Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the LORD.

And many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto thee.

And the LORD shall inherit Judah his portion in the holy land, and shall choose Jerusalem again.

Be silent, O all flesh, before the LORD: for he is raised up out of his holy habitation. Zechariah 2:8-13

Jesus Messiah

Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts. Jeremiah 15:16

Eternally God The Son

Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little.

Blessed are all they that put their trust in him. Psalms 2:11-12

Came Down From Heaven Above

He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Psalms 2:4-7

To Be Born Our Kinsmen-Redeemer

Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.

But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. Matthew 1:18-21

Forever The Son Of Man, Forever A Jew And The KING OF THE JEWS

I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. Daniel 7:13-14

And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS. John 19:19

Who's Life No Man Could Take

I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. John 10:14-18

Yet He Laid It Down To Rise Again The Third Day

And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him. Mark 16:6

To Set Free Whosoever Will Believe

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Revelation 22:16-17

In The Shed Holy Blood Of The Only Begotten Son Of God

And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 1 Peter 1:17-21

To Save Whosoever Will Not Not Call His Father A Liar

For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels. But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.

And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.

And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias: Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.

And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said.

While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud. And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

And when the voice was past, Jesus was found alone. And they kept it close, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen. Luke 9:26-36

~

Believe

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. 1 John 5:11-13

And Be Blessed Beloved

Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. John 14:1-3

Be Very Blessed

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Joe

[Guest shiloh357]

The reason that a trinity and the divinity of Christ is taught is because these doctrines were decided by VOTE at the Nicene council. Mystery Babylon?

http://www.gotquestions.org/council-of-Nicea.html

Christ himself gave the example that shows that he and God are seperate entities.

Mark 10

17And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?

18And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Jesus is clearly telling this guy not to call him good, because only God is good.

Two things:

1. The Council of Nicea simply recognized the deity of Jesus as taught in the Scriptures. That Jesus was/is God since eternity past is clearly taught in the Word of God. Jesus Himself claimed to be pre-existent with the Father in John 17. Jesus uses terms for himself such as "first and last," "Beginning and End" that God uses to decribe Himself in the book of Isaiah. Jesus is called, "Mighty God" in Isaiah 9. God is also referred to as Israel's Savior in Isaiah and the book of Acts clearly teaches that there is no Name (other than the Name of Jesus) given under heaven where by men must be saved. Jesus claims to be eternal life and the giver of in both John 11:25 and John 14:6.

To argue that the only reason we teach the deity of Jesus is because of a vote at Nicea is a bit misleading. The vote was a recognition of the doctrine of Christ's deity. It was not a vote to manufacture such a doctine.

2. You are misunderstanding the passage in Mark. Jesus was not claiming that God was a separate entity from Himself. Jesus is not denying His deity at all; quite the opposite. He is trying to bring the man to true knowledge of His deity. Jesus is exposing the inadequacy of the man's faith. It is a foregone conclusion that this man saw Jesus as a teacher of the law, but clearly he did not view Jesus as God. Jesus states a truth that there is no one who is "good" (Gk. agathos) other than God. Thus, if he was coming to Jesus with this kind of ephitet, it was in appropriate for him to use it in reference to someone other than God and what Jesus was doing was transferring all of the praise of goodness to God. In essence, Jesus was modeling for us how we should take any accolades we receive and make God the object of praise and not ourselves. Jesus did NOT say, there is none good but the "Father." Had Jesus claimed that only the Father was good, that would be one thing. But "God" and "Father" in the Bible are not necessarily interchangable terms, though we often use them that way in English parlance.

Jesus was trying to adjust the man's thinking and view of Him in the verses that follow. When the man asks Jesus what he must do to inherit eternal life, Jesus gives him a pharisacal response. He reminds him of the commandments of the Torah. This young man claims to have kept the commandments from his childhood. But Jesus' further response is an attempt to get the man to see the futility of trying to gain eternal life by the Torah. Jesus says, "one thing you lack..." Eternal life, is a person, not an inanimate thing or concept. Jesus pointed to following Him as to what the young man was lacking. "If you want eternal life, you have to follow me." In verse 21, Jesus says that the man will gain eternal life by following Him. So Jesus, again, presents Himself as the source for eternal life. Only God can offer/give eternal life. If Jesus were not God, His comments in verse 21 would have been blasphemy.

[grandma dolittle]

Can some help me understand the Trinity? My minister and fellow church members have tried and they don't seem to have a problem with it. But I do. Most often quoted to me is John 10:30 " I and my father are one." But in other scriptures (I can't find right now) Jesus talks to the disciples and he says I am in you and you in me. All through the scriptures, Jesus refers to God as his Father. I really don't see it, so I have decided it doesn't really matter. I love Jesus and God and I am so glad I have the Holy Spirit. I know Christ died and rose and he is preparing a place for me in heaven. I will live my life according to that knowledge. One day as I see jesus... I will know the truth.

Last night as I was reading all the replies to this post, my fourteen year old grandson was reading over my shoulder. He used to go to chuech with me when he was little , but when teenage years struck, he quit and spouted arguments about there being no such thing as God. I have prayed for him and how to reach him. As he read this he said, "I thought that Jesus was God's son, so how can he be God?" I really didn't know how to answer him, then the tree anology popped into my head and I explained how God was the main body of the tree, and Jesus was the linbs reaching out in all directions, and the Holy Spirit was the leaves covering the limbs,yet they were three parts of one tree. I said that Jesus had used language and anologies so the people of that time could understand what he was talking about. Jesus could not have talked to us like a God because we can't understand God's reasoning or wisdom. He said , " God is simple and man makes it complex.' I think God has answered my prayers for both my grandson and me. God is awesome!

[Floatingaxe]

Can some help me understand the Trinity? My minister and fellow church members have tried and they don't seem to have a problem with it. But I do. Most often quoted to me is John 10:30 " I and my father are one." But in other scriptures (I can't find right now) Jesus talks to the disciples and he says I am in you and you in me. All through the scriptures, Jesus refers to God as his Father. I really don't see it, so I have decided it doesn't really matter. I love Jesus and God and I am so glad I have the Holy Spirit. I know Christ died and rose and he is preparing a place for me in heaven. I will live my life according to that knowledge. One day as I see jesus... I will know the truth.

Last night as I was reading all the replies to this post, my fourteen year old grandson was reading over my shoulder. He used to go to chuech with me when he was little , but when teenage years struck, he quit and spouted arguments about there being no such thing as God. I have prayed for him and how to reach him. As he read this he said, "I thought that Jesus was God's son, so how can he be God?" I really didn't know how to answer him, then the tree anology popped into my head and I explained how God was the main body of the tree, and Jesus was the linbs reaching out in all directions, and the Holy Spirit was the leaves covering the limbs,yet they were three parts of one tree. I said that Jesus had used language and anologies so the people of that time could understand what he was talking about. Jesus could not have talked to us like a God because we can't understand God's reasoning or wisdom. He said , " God is simple and man makes it complex.' I think God has answered my prayers for both my grandson and me. God is awesome!

I always liked the water analogy: God is like the three forms of H2O: liquid, as in water; solid, as ice; vapour, as in steam. 3 IN ONE!

[Guest shiloh357]

Can some help me understand the Trinity? My minister and fellow church members have tried and they don't seem to have a problem with it. But I do. Most often quoted to me is John 10:30 " I and my father are one." But in other scriptures (I can't find right now) Jesus talks to the disciples and he says I am in you and you in me. All through the scriptures, Jesus refers to God as his Father. I really don't see it, so I have decided it doesn't really matter. I love Jesus and God and I am so glad I have the Holy Spirit. I know Christ died and rose and he is preparing a place for me in heaven. I will live my life according to that knowledge. One day as I see jesus... I will know the truth.

Last night as I was reading all the replies to this post, my fourteen year old grandson was reading over my shoulder. He used to go to chuech with me when he was little , but when teenage years struck, he quit and spouted arguments about there being no such thing as God. I have prayed for him and how to reach him. As he read this he said, "I thought that Jesus was God's son, so how can he be God?" I really didn't know how to answer him, then the tree anology popped into my head and I explained how God was the main body of the tree, and Jesus was the linbs reaching out in all directions, and the Holy Spirit was the leaves covering the limbs,yet they were three parts of one tree. I said that Jesus had used language and anologies so the people of that time could understand what he was talking about. Jesus could not have talked to us like a God because we can't understand God's reasoning or wisdom. He said , " God is simple and man makes it complex.' I think God has answered my prayers for both my grandson and me. God is awesome!

Part of the problem is that we view "Son of God" as pertaining to a paternal relationship with the Father. "Father" and "Son" refer to rank. Spiritually speaking, Jesus is not the paternal "son," as Jesus has no spiritual "mother." Jesus had always pre-existed with the Father. The Bible condescends to us and speaks to us in terms we can understand, but it is our own lack of study that causes us even then, to misunderstand the nature of the relationship.

There are no earthly analogies that accurately reflect the relationship as we have no true frame of reference for it in our reality and the Bible offers no analogies.

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one in their essential being yet are three radically distinct persons. We don't understand how that works. God has not given us enough light to grasp ahold of the nuts and bolts of it, but we don't have to have all of the answers to just trust Him. There is a time when we will understand, but for now, we see through a darkened glass.

[xero]

Our relationship to the Father, the Son, and eachother is integrally interrelated.

Matthew 12:50 "For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother."

Ephesians 5:31 "For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh."

Revelations 19:7 "Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready."

[saved34]

Our relationship to the Father, the Son, and eachother is integrally interrelated.

Matthew 12:50 "For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother."

Ephesians 5:31 "For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh."

Revelations 19:7 "Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready."

Amen! But let's not forget that our relationship with the entire Godhead (Father,Son, Holy Spirit) is integral. Each person of the Godhead has a hand in our great salvation, and our present walk on this earth. It is the Holy Spirit who places us in the body of Christ he baptizes us into the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. It is he who regenerates us through our Lord Jesus Christ. It is he who leads us in the paths of righteousness daily (an attribute of God). It is only through the Holy Spirit that the things of our Lord can actually become a reality to our hearts.

1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

Psa 23:3 He restores my soul; He guides me in the paths of righteousness For His name's sake.

Rom 8:14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

Isa 48:17 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel, "I am the LORD your God, who teaches you to profit, Who leads you in the way you should go.

1Co 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

The Trinity is very biblical.

[Guest yod]

Pardon me please if I'm intruding into a discussion that has gone off from the OP. I haven't read any of this thread because the "trinity" is one of the hottest issues that come up on this board and it's a stupid fight if you ask me...so here is my question:

How can a mortal understand an immortal? How arrogant it seems to me that mere humans believe we are capable of understanding (defining) the supernatural with words?

but the real question, imo, is WHY DO I NEED TO "UNDERSTAND" THE TRINITY????

I met the Father through putting my trust in His Son and have been living with the Spirit of Holiness ever since. I don't pretend nor presume to know the details of how that works.

God says "I AM" and that's good enough for me.

[nebula]

To Yod's response

You can't put God into or under our scientific, classification-oriented mindset.