Euthanasia is wrong!

[ColleenLovesMischief]

Im sorry to hear about your problems and health colleen. Suicide is not a solution. It is not Gods will. The bible tells us not to kill. Euthanasia and suicide would fall under that. The bible tells us not to harm our bodies. They fall under that too. The enemy seeks to destroy. If you are suicidal, you should talk to someone about this.

I didn't say I was suicidal. I do see it as an option once I hit the point of no return. If I know I am going to die soon, and it is taxing to those around me I will stop it. It is hard for me not to harm my body. I have been a self injurer since I was 11 yrs old. (yes it is documented as NSSI) I'm not looking for a way to escape my illness, but it is pretty well known that I won't let myself become too much of burden on anyone. Actually I am less depressed now than I have been in years. Sorry I kinda sprung everything like this. I am also well aware that if my mind slips I can become dangerous to others. It takes almost everything I have now not to lash out against others (verbally and physically). That scares me, and we were able to prove a few years ago that medication doesn't control well with me at all. I fight violent tendencies daily. I'd rather not end up killing someone without even realizing I did it before my life is over. I'm not plotting anything. Just stating a decision I made a long time ago if I ever hit a point that was extremely burdensome, and terminal.

[ColleenLovesMischief]

the problem is that this will happen and im sure it as

for greed the family could convince the sick member to end it as he or she has a large estate and they are on the will.

for greed the insurance company may not cover the treatment as its cheaper to end life.

how is that verse not different? in context its the same thing. saul was dying and from wounds. so there arent inuries that put one in a coma or causes one to be burden? a whole move on this is called million dollar baby. the fomer boxer wasnt terminally ill just paralised from the neck down and yet asked for death. that isnt murder for the friend to kill her? it was and will always be.

your position may not be but the laws do allow a teen to end it holland and i think even in oregon now.

that side on turning the machines off doesnt mean death in second or in hours but days in some cases and its how terry schiavo died.

two weeks from no food and water. she bled to death , was that a merciful way to kill her?

Terri Schiavo (Dec. 3, 1963 – Mar. 31, 2005) was a coma victim whose plight came to national attention early in the Bush Administration. The legal issues split the country as much as the abortion issue.

While on a weight-loss diet, Schiavo consumed too little potassium, resulting in a condition diagnosed as a persistent vegetative state. Her husband and her parents became locked in a lengthy legal battle over whether to keep her alive. Florida Governor Jeb Bush and his brother President Bush sided with the parents, who believed their daughter was responsive. Despite a special law passed to prevent her death, courts finally decided to terminate her life support on March 18, 2005, and she died of starvation and dehydration within two weeks

http://www.conservapedia.com/Terri_Schiavo

George Felos, an attorney prominent in the right-to-die movement and described as "pro-death"[3] represented Mr. Schiavo and applied to the Pinellas County-Pasco County Circuit probate court for the right to remove Terri's feeding tube. A judge ordered her death despite objections by everyone in Terri's own family and several medical professionals.[4] His order not only required removal of Terri's feeding tube, but ordered the arrest of people who peacefully attempted to give drinking water to Terri rather than let her die of dehydration.[5]

Terri Schiavo was not terminally ill, but she was determined to be in a "persistent vegetative state". This conclusion was reached by neurologists hired on the side seeking her death, but disputed by neurologists hired by Terri’s parents. Her parents were given the right to a comprehensive examination of Terri by order of the Florida 6th Judicial Circuit court. Two neurologists selected by Michael Schiavo, one radiologist and one neurologist selected by Terri’s parents, and one neurologist selected by the court examined Terri and her medical history thoroughly. The judge declared that Terri was in a persistent vegetative state with no hope of improvement.[1]

not termina,l at all!

its a hard case. food for thought. then should to avoid any suffering then should a christian doctor then also if asked to insert the fluids to kill actively? if you cant say yes then why do have such a problem if its not murder?

The exact point...it was not her decision, and she didn't have anything in writing beforehand. Look closer at it and you will believe he murdered her for the insurance money. They starved her to death which in any other situation is not legal, and would be considered cruelty. Few in America were happy with this case. It is why most of us have our wishes stated in writing. As I have said before it should NOT be the decision of someone else. My Mother had a DNR (Do not resuscitate), and my brother did not want to honor it. He didn't want the hospital to know she had it. Much to his dismay they already had a copy on file. SHe had told me a couple weeks before she passed that it was her decision, and I agreed. It was her decision if she wanted to continue living as she was (Diabetic, wheelchair bound, missing one leg and about to have the other removed, among many other health issues). I can honestly understand. I would not want to live that way either. And she was alone. I live 500 miles away. My Brother was closer, but he didn't have time to be there all the time because of his own Family. She had 2 caretakers steal from her, so I can understand why she didn't want an outsider there. It was not my Brothers decision, it was Moms.

[Sevenseas]

What I think is going on here is that people basically know it is wrong to take a life...even their own...but they get very upset if

someone points out that it is not the desire of God either.

Where have people been taught it is ok to take your own life or the life of someone who asks you to help them commit suicide?

Is that what is being taught in churches nowdays or is that the humanistic and ungodly reasoning of people who no longer seem to fear

God?

We are to fear God...not death, not people and not opinions. The vitriole from LadyC and the personal attack aimed at me from that person

would not be allowed on many Christian boards and frankly I don't know why it is allowed on this one.

Edited May 14, 2012 by sevenseas

[Guest LadyC]

sevenseas, do NOT continue to accuse me of vitriole pointed at you. i NEVER aimed any attack at you. anyone can read your posts to me, especially your first one, and see that it was 100% insult after insult directed at nobody but me, from you. in fact, OTHERS even commented on it and asked you to refrain from being so hateful.

i have posted the original onslaught of vitriole directed at me from you. please read through it and let God speak to your heart about your words.

yes, we do shoot horses. and all sorts of other animals. these days it's not with a bullet, it's with an injection.

telling someone not to use animals as an example is pure folly. of COURSE we should use animals as an example. yes, we are all aware of the animal abuse cases that are rampant, and the neglect cases. but you talk as though that's the only time animals are put down.

So you wish to be thought of as just another animal then? Well, alot of people think we are just animals, but a Christian certainly knows better

Actually, I have not talked...what I wrote, appears to be quite taken out of context by you

i've had to put down three beloved pets in the last four years. two of them within the last ONE year. they weren't abused, nor were they neglected. they were old, and their health had deteriorated. they were terminally ill. to keep them alive longer was to be cruel and merciless. one had a combination of a thyroid tumor and advanced renal failure, and a blood pressure spike caused her to go blind. that cat was 20 years old. jordy, my most beloved himalayan, had a tumor growing on his neck at the rate of 1/4" per week when i had him put down at the age of 19. and just a few months ago, 17 year old dax developed congestive heart failure. i watched him suffer for weeks. he could barely breathe, he would cough up blood, and eventually was even getting petichial (sp?) hemmoraging (sp?) around the eyes and nose. we had no money to take him to the vet. my mom finally noticed how bad he was and she paid for it.

Oh boo hoo. I am an animal lover and have had dogs and other pets practically my entire life. I don't get them confused with people though. And neither does God.

Animals are not people. Do you love people enough to pray for them or do you just want to put them down if they are in pain and old? If they are not saved, what,

just put them down? Maybe that is God's way of having them turn to Him...you do not have the right to kill a human being. Only God has the right to take a life.

THOU SHALT NOT MURDER. There is no gray area there. Animals are not people...Using animals is a ridiculous example. Shall we also neuter people if we think

they already have enough children or perhaps we don't think they should reproduce because they are an inferior example of a human being?

Where do we draw the line? Honestly....

i'll repeat, to let ANY of them live in that kind of suffering would have been cruel and inhumane... and i believe God would not have wanted me to allow their suffering to continue. why then, would i think God would WANT us to allow a human to suffer in such a way?

Again, you believe that animals and humans have the same value? Jesus did not die for our pet dogs. We have more value than an animal. People who think that they

have the right to end the life of another are deceived.

for the record, people use the argument all the time that God is the one who has the authority to end life as an argument against the death penalty. or against self defense. and so on. yet God gave MAN the authority to take life under those circumstances.

Gee I wonder where that argument comes from? THE BIBLE MAYBE??? THOU SHALT NOT MURDER. Taking a life (that also refers to the unborn) is murder.

YOU do NOT have the right to do that. There is no truth to your belief that God has given people the right to take a life. That is garbage.

It is a dire lack of knowledge of scripture that would lead a person to the conclusion people can play God and end life when they want to.

That kind of thinking, will lead to people in wheel chairs and people past their prime being put down too when society no longer believes that human life

is sacred. God gave His Son to die for us....it is not human to kill...it is wrong and the doctrine of devils. You just might kill someone that would have

accepted Jesus if they had lived another week or so.

[Sevenseas]

Can this please stop? This sort of talk causes so much anger as well as resentment. Why is it when there is a disagreement in terms of issues be they biblical or otherwise the first words that are uttered is that one is or is not a Christian....

Gentle words turn away anger....harsh ones stir it up and cause it to well up inside another.

Is there no way this matter can be discussed civilly?

Actually, that is pretty much the truth. When someone uses putting down a pet or any animal as an argument for ending the life of a human being

they are absolutely dismissing anything scripture has to say.

Abortion is pretty much accepted now, along with gay marriage and now folks want the right to help people kill themselves when the suffering is too

great. or in their opinion too great

I do not believe in leaving someone plugged to a machine to keep them alive...someone in a coma who is kept alive artifically needs to be let go.

People getting jumping up and down upset over the euthansia do not really believe that God is actually in control....if God is soverign and omniscient

and omnipresent as Christians declare, then why does a mere human being think they have the right to do God's job for Him?

IMO, so many people call themselves Christian but do not even know the basics of what they purport to believe

I don't think this is a grey area...like I said, please do pull the plug if a machine is the only thing keeping a heart beating....does anyone really think

God does not see or know about suffering? I haven't seen an abortion thread with this much vitriole. Probably because abortion is now so common,

it is used like birth control

Guess what? Allow euthanasia and people who are too old or of a certain age will be put down along with deformed people or children with Down's syndrome

No one has to agree with me. But the personal attacks are ridiculous...being told I am judging whether or not someone is saved is way beyond anything

I wrote.

I would rather be wrong than emotionally abusive to people who disagree with me. However, I don't think I am wrong.

You don't have to think, whoever you may be, that you are wrong, but personal accusations seem to go hand in hand with a certain way of

making decisions and I don't want any part of it.

I have in no way, shape or form stated I am in agreement with Euthanasia. Where do you get that idea? I have not stated it as grey area. How have I attacked you personally?

All I asked was that we address this topic in a civil manner.

Where did I say that? I didn't say that. I was replying to your reasonable request for civil dialogue...have you read LadyC comments to me?

I am so fed up with people going bananas because someone disagrees with them. I was trying to explain to you that I voiced my belief strongly because

I think that Ladyc was very aggresively trying to say I attacked her while she was actually doing that very thing to me. It's ridiculous.

[Sevenseas]

sevenseas, do NOT continue to accuse me of vitriole pointed at you. i NEVER aimed any attack at you. anyone can read your posts to me, especially your first one, and see that it was 100% insult after insult directed at nobody but me, from you. in fact, OTHERS even commented on it and asked you to refrain from being so hateful.

i have posted the original onslaught of vitriole directed at me from you. please read through it and let God speak to your heart about your words.

Let God speak to my heart? Talk about manipulative

Seriously? Don't use God to whack me over the head with. Unbelievable.

No further comment from me to you.

[Guest Butero]

i think i've made my position quite clear. i watched my father suffer, his condition rapidly deteriorating for three years before he finally died. i watched my cousin care for her terminally i'll husband (i believe it was parkinsons) long after he was able to speak, move voluntarily, or have any other voluntary control over his body.

if my mother was dying and there was no hope for any recovery, much less any hope for a quality of life, i would hope that her wishes could be legally honored if death was what she wished. absolutely.

now, show me in scripture where God defines this as murder. give m one single scripture where God definitively says that medical intervenion to end one's life at their request under such circumstances is forbidden.

you can't. because it's not there.

but you CAN find scripture where saul asked someone to end his life, and the person who ended it was not condemned by God.

and you can find scripture where God indicates that if your animal is critically injured, it is ok to put it out of its misery on a sabbath rather than force it to suffer til the next day.

and you'll never convince me that God has more compassion for animals than for humans.

now, show me again where it is that God gives YOU the right to speak for Him on issues that He has not spoken on. i'm just DYING to see that one, no pun intended.

ok, maybe the pun was intended.

in any case, i'm done with this thread. at least i hope i'm done with it. i darn sure don't want to keep repeating myself. i suppose if there's any question i can respond to that i haven't already answered a half dozen times, i might take the time. but otherwise, i'm really not interested anymore in those of you who would condemn me to hell, when my loving heavenly Father certainly has not, and will not.

God simply tells us not to commit murder. He doesn't spell out who we can't kill. In other words, he doesn't say I can't kill my brother, my neighbor, the store clerk, etc., and neither does he mention killing self, but it is common sense. God never tells anyone it is ok to kill your critically injured animal, on the sabbath or at any time. He mentions it is ok to pull an ox out a pit on the sabbath, and really doesn't say it is ok. He says people will do so. Saul did tell someone to fall upon him, but God never condoned it and King David had the man put to death for killing God's anointed.

[AnotherSinner]

Can this please stop? This sort of talk causes so much anger as well as resentment. Why is it when there is a disagreement in terms of issues be they biblical or otherwise the first words that are uttered is that one is or is not a Christian....

Gentle words turn away anger....harsh ones stir it up and cause it to well up inside another.

Is there no way this matter can be discussed civilly?

Actually, that is pretty much the truth. When someone uses putting down a pet or any animal as an argument for ending the life of a human being

they are absolutely dismissing anything scripture has to say.

Abortion is pretty much accepted now, along with gay marriage and now folks want the right to help people kill themselves when the suffering is too

great. or in their opinion too great

I do not believe in leaving someone plugged to a machine to keep them alive...someone in a coma who is kept alive artifically needs to be let go.

People getting jumping up and down upset over the euthansia do not really believe that God is actually in control....if God is soverign and omniscient

and omnipresent as Christians declare, then why does a mere human being think they have the right to do God's job for Him?

IMO, so many people call themselves Christian but do not even know the basics of what they purport to believe

I don't think this is a grey area...like I said, please do pull the plug if a machine is the only thing keeping a heart beating....does anyone really think

God does not see or know about suffering? I haven't seen an abortion thread with this much vitriole. Probably because abortion is now so common,

it is used like birth control

Guess what? Allow euthanasia and people who are too old or of a certain age will be put down along with deformed people or children with Down's syndrome

No one has to agree with me. But the personal attacks are ridiculous...being told I am judging whether or not someone is saved is way beyond anything

I wrote.

I would rather be wrong than emotionally abusive to people who disagree with me. However, I don't think I am wrong.

You don't have to think, whoever you may be, that you are wrong, but personal accusations seem to go hand in hand with a certain way of

making decisions and I don't want any part of it.

I have in no way, shape or form stated I am in agreement with Euthanasia. Where do you get that idea? I have not stated it as grey area. How have I attacked you personally?

All I asked was that we address this topic in a civil manner.

Where did I say that? I didn't say that. I was replying to your reasonable request for civil dialogue...have you read LadyC comments to me?

I am so fed up with people going bananas because someone disagrees with them. I was trying to explain to you that I voiced my belief strongly because

I think that Ladyc was very aggresively trying to say I attacked her while she was actually doing that very thing to me. It's ridiculous.

I have read the entire thread...thus the reason for my comments being exceedingly few....

Can only pray that things ease up or that the thread is closed as it seems there is no real conversation taking place.....

[Guest Butero]

nice. you post links to arguments against my position,

but you obviously can't do the one thing i requested, which is to show me anywhere in scripture where GOD definitively opposes euthenasia at the patients request.

of course you can't. you never will, unless you write it in there yourself.

This is not even hard to debunk. God says "Thou Shalt Not Kill." Just because he doesn't give us a list of who we can't kill, that doesn't mean it is a grey area. He doesn't say I can't kill the barber, the grocer, my uncle, my cousin, but I know it is murder. The same thing applies to killing of self. It certainly applies to killing a sick patient requesting to die. This isn't even a challenge to answer, and to say God is silent on the matter is absurd.

[Sevenseas]

Can this please stop? This sort of talk causes so much anger as well as resentment. Why is it when there is a disagreement in terms of issues be they biblical or otherwise the first words that are uttered is that one is or is not a Christian....

Gentle words turn away anger....harsh ones stir it up and cause it to well up inside another.

Is there no way this matter can be discussed civilly?

Actually, that is pretty much the truth. When someone uses putting down a pet or any animal as an argument for ending the life of a human being

they are absolutely dismissing anything scripture has to say.

Abortion is pretty much accepted now, along with gay marriage and now folks want the right to help people kill themselves when the suffering is too

great. or in their opinion too great

I do not believe in leaving someone plugged to a machine to keep them alive...someone in a coma who is kept alive artifically needs to be let go.

People getting jumping up and down upset over the euthansia do not really believe that God is actually in control....if God is soverign and omniscient

and omnipresent as Christians declare, then why does a mere human being think they have the right to do God's job for Him?

IMO, so many people call themselves Christian but do not even know the basics of what they purport to believe

I don't think this is a grey area...like I said, please do pull the plug if a machine is the only thing keeping a heart beating....does anyone really think

God does not see or know about suffering? I haven't seen an abortion thread with this much vitriole. Probably because abortion is now so common,

it is used like birth control

Guess what? Allow euthanasia and people who are too old or of a certain age will be put down along with deformed people or children with Down's syndrome

No one has to agree with me. But the personal attacks are ridiculous...being told I am judging whether or not someone is saved is way beyond anything

I wrote.

I would rather be wrong than emotionally abusive to people who disagree with me. However, I don't think I am wrong.

You don't have to think, whoever you may be, that you are wrong, but personal accusations seem to go hand in hand with a certain way of

making decisions and I don't want any part of it.

I have in no way, shape or form stated I am in agreement with Euthanasia. Where do you get that idea? I have not stated it as grey area. How have I attacked you personally?

All I asked was that we address this topic in a civil manner.

Where did I say that? I didn't say that. I was replying to your reasonable request for civil dialogue...have you read LadyC comments to me?

I am so fed up with people going bananas because someone disagrees with them. I was trying to explain to you that I voiced my belief strongly because

I think that Ladyc was very aggresively trying to say I attacked her while she was actually doing that very thing to me. It's ridiculous.

I have read the entire thread...thus the reason for my comments being exceedingly few....

Can only pray that things ease up or that the thread is closed as it seems there is no real conversation taking place.....

There is nothing edifying in this thread in my opinion.