speaking in tounges

[allofgrace]

And I stand by that difference. Do you not see a difference in the disciples before and after being filled with the Holy Spirit?

There is a difference otherwise, why even bother..why would God even dispense the gifts if they made no difference

Shall we try not to nitpick but actually examine the scriptures? I did not state anything not in the scriptures

and I mean this in a general sense and not just talking to you allofgrace but I am talking to you too

You bring up passages that I really have no clue as to why? It would sure be nice to just refer to what another poster

writes when refuting what they wrote instead of throwing in everything that ever did not sit quite right and having nothing

to do with the poster being addressed

The passage you brought up is in the Bible...BEFORE THE BIRTH OF CHRIST That has nothing to do with the discussion

Why do you think this is any sort of negative impact on this discussion? If you do not want to receive, no worries, but

you cannot really supply scripture to that effect. It is simply your own persuasion which you are most certainly free

to have.

Jesus told the disciples to wait in Jerusalem for the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit is not given to speak in tongues.

He is given for power to witness and live for Christ.

Thanks

And how is speaking in a tongue that you can't understand of any power for witnessing or living for Christ when one does not understand any thing they say? The verses were evidence of being filled with the Spirit and not speaking in tongues whether or not one understands the point or not.

[enoob57]

Those who have not then-> because there is not interpretation or intuition through experience are forced to

apply their faith in the witness of the people apart from the foundationed Word which is listed as the only source we

are to gain our faith from...

Ro 10:15-17

15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:

"How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,

Who bring glad tidings of good things!"

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord,

who has believed our report?" 17 So then faith comes by hearing,

and hearing by the word of God.

NKJV

well golly cheese whiz Steven! those people are basing their experience on the word of God...experience alone does

not a foundation make in the 21t C...so yes, just like in the Bible...I can say to you "I can only attest that these things I

say to you are true. I cannot prove them...I have received them through faith and that faith, based on what the

Scriptures say." You took a wrong turn with me here in reasoning! Faith is based solely upon the intake of

God's Word! Belief is formed by the structure of reason that comes from that intake... tongues is unknown

by this method... so in the very core begin we must place our faith in the experience you testify of outside

of the way we first came to belief in the Word... I speak directly to the type of tongue (unknown)- a practice outside

of word communicatively as known language that is naturally without reason thus can only consist of emotion and intuition

from those aspects... after all unknown is unknown yet God's Word is to be known, meditated on, acted upon etc...

Is this not so?

and again Acts is a place of one time in transition from OT covenant to NT covenant all things

at that time were new and unknown to the OT covenant as the signs were for verification

of God in it-> because of the radical departure from to law to grace at the Cross...

The Question now appears present day what kind of faith is in signs?

Heb 11:1-3

11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

2 For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.3 By faith we understand that the

worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were

not made of things which are visible.

NKJV

Signs were/are given to provide proof. This is not entirely so either loved one! For God in His mercy has warned us of what is

to be in the last of days

2 Th 2:9-10

9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,

NKJV

now don't take this as reference to you or the gift of tongues (you know better of me!) but only to show you that signs will be

used to pull people away from God to satan! As I have said other place with the increase of knowledge also the ability to use

that increase as deception: for instance cloning God makes a statement by water and by blood when Jesus was talking to

Nicodemus. Now all the commentators say it can't be about natural birth as all have come that way ! So we are to

examine all things by Scripture in order to as the whole council of God to us....

Gifts, are for believers. You have my testimony and you have the witness

of the Holy Spirit should you ask. Tongues is both a sign AND a gift however.

Interesting to note the reactions of the disciples when the Gentiles received and spoke in tongues, is it not?

Interesting to note that God sovereignly provided such so as to demonstrate that He does indeed treat all fairly and without preference

If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask....in faith

a problem indeed for us who have not received the gift! Then you say we are to seek such

as this modern day interpreted gift of tongues... and although you with your mouth do utter

these sounds you say, yourselves, you do not know what is being said but have through

faith believed them to be of God because of personal enhancement toward God... but how does

this correlate to the desire of God be in our understanding through communication with Him found

in Isaiah 'come now let us reason to gather sayeth the Lord'?

Well now I do not see any problem. Many who speak in tongues and want to practice the gifts have a sorrowful lack of knowledge of the

scriptures which is WHY there exists the problems and divisions that do. Think then, the difference in those who do possess an understanding

and are able to grasp with their MIND the truth and yet to operate in the power of the Holy Spirit.

Ignorance is not protection from evil or deception.

I most often interpret what I say and I know the words in English are not from myself because I would just not be so eloquent in praise

to God. I have this experience as well as I write with Love in my heart sometimes with tears and fierce desire of God's answers

and later to come back and read what was written is like wow Lord that was neat what you did through me BUT it is always with

a deeper knowledge and reasoning of His Word already written and known ... but how do you remain settled for that which you

cannot give answer for... that came from you?

There have been circumstances where I will say something that I did not know was in scripture and when I looked it up in a concordance,

the verse was there. I already told you of one such occasion. Now how could I make that up or even know I would want to? shrug....LOL!

that is my point loved one! you received verification and assurance by His Written Word of what was spoken (no one can argue with

God's Word for all may come to it and eat and drink from the very same source) but what is unknown is just that unknown...

The Holy Spirit gives life to the written word and increases the burden in the heart to pray for and to help others....I could go on and on

and I would not exaggerate one bit. Praise God for you sister of mine!

Now you mention Isaiah...dealing with sin...come let us reason together.....are you speaking of the mind or the use of the mind...I think

you are....and I have stated that emotions follow...the mind is indeed what we reason with

I would always caution anyone who wishes to speak in tongues that they should understand that they are opening up to a spiritual reality

and life will not be the same. As the Holy Spirit so exists, so do the evil spirits and that entire realm. This is perhaps why we do not

practice tongues as we feel more able to endure to the end by the understanding and practice of His known Word... so don't despise us

if perhaps we are little... we are willing to die for what we know already of Him

God IS Spirit....so many Christians do not live according to the Word and yet will speak in tongues or jump up and down in a worship

service...I'm not talking about that and do not be concerned with that. Again, we are EACH responsible for our own walk with the Lord

and no one can walk it for us or direct us outside of the Holy Spirit.

Loved one... is your favorite color purple???

[Fez]

You don't have to have any of the gifts.

You don't have to be a missionary / evangelist / teacher.

You don't have to have a fantastic singing voice, play an instrument, be an orator.

You don't have to be an awesome writer and know how to spell.

You don't have to memorize the bible (knowing a few verses is nice, but for self edification)

You don't have to be a pastor, elder, deacon or doorman.

You don't have to be rich

You don't have to be poor

You don't have to be healthy

You don't have to be sick

You don't have to wear a tie / ankle length dress to church (especially together, that would just be strange....)

You don't have to do anything but Love Jesus and Love others.

Ever noticed how people seem to be drawn to someone who Loves others?

If you are going to be anything, strive for anything, strive to be a servant to others.

And serve them Love.

[enoob57]

You don't have to have any of the gifts.

You don't have to be a missionary / evangelist / teacher.

You don't have to have a fantastic singing voice, play an instrument, be an orator.

You don't have to be an awesome writer and know how to spell.

You don't have to memorize the bible (knowing a few verses is nice, but for self edification)

You don't have to be a pastor, elder, deacon or doorman.

You don't have to be rich

You don't have to be poor

You don't have to be healthy

You don't have to be sick

You don't have to wear a tie / ankle length dress to church (especially together, that would just be strange....)

You don't have to do anything but Love Jesus and Love others.

Ever noticed how people seem to be drawn to someone who Loves others?

If you are going to be anything, strive for anything, strive to be a servant to others.

And serve them Love. and the African kicked this one out of the park

[He giveth more grace]

The issue is not in the correct light! This filling of the Holy Spirit cannot mean you get a little and then by request you get more...

For God is unbounded and the least is as same as the Greatest ... This issue must be addressed before the understanding can

continue! Love, Steven

Right, Steven, the issue is not us getting more of him, but him getting more of us.

[Fez]

1Co 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be uninformed.

1Co 12:2 You know that when you were pagans you were led astray to mute idols, however you were led.

1Co 12:3 Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says "Jesus is accursed!" and no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except in the Holy Spirit.

1Co 12:4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit;

1Co 12:5 and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord;

1Co 12:6 and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone.

1Co 12:7 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.

1Co 12:8 For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit,

1Co 12:9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit,

1Co 12:10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

1Co 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.

1Co 12:28 And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.

1Co 12:29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?

1Co 12:30 Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?

1Co 12:31 But earnestly desire the higher gifts. And I will show you a still more excellent way.

Brother Mike

Now, you want me to believe that somehow your so special of a Christian, that our Father just passed you up somehow in spiritual Gifts?

See above scripture, so, not all are blessed with spiritual gifts. We can desire them and pray earnestly for them, and may even be gifted for a season, for God's purpose. But no one I know has every gift.

[NeedYouLord]

Father...I Pray...Put The Desire For You...for All of You...In us...Let Us Seek You With Our Whole Heart...Let Us Find You, I Pray...In The Name of Jesus...For You Are LIfe...You Are Love...You Are Hope...There are so many more books that weren't written because then Our Bible Would So Big We Wouldn't Be Able To Pick It Up...Even What We Have Was Divinely Inspired Through Some Men Who Loved You Very Much! How Do We Reach You from Earth? How Do We Reconnect To You, Our Creator, When We Were So Separated? By Going After You With Everything In me...There was one Divine Spark...just one is all it takes...Desire!!! For me...I couldn't bear it when my daddy called me sick...or the woman in the grocery store that had no hope that her daughter could be healed...Not even the possiblility...I refused that (kind of thinking) when My Bible told me that I was joint heir with Christ...that the Same Spirit That Raised Jesus From the Dead Lives In me...It's all in there...I had to learn also (as a metaphor) that there is Life inbetween the black and white words...In order to find more...I stepped out in faith...against everything my family ever believed...I had to step where I had never been before...Was I afraid? Oh my...There are no words...My beliefs had to change-In Order to Find Truth...And in going through all this I had to believe above all else that His Word Was True...That He Would Not Leave me or Forsake me...I'm just testifying...I'm not saying everyone can or will or desire or even believe that there is a Baptism In The Holy Ghost...Thank You for 2 Baptisms!!! Thank You, Lord.

Our Lord Is Alive...and in full operation today...Saving The Lost...Healing The Sick...Helping The Poor and The Widows...Opening Deaf Ears and Blind Eyes...Changing Lives and Hearts...Whew...Through Some Men (and Women) Who Love You (Lord) Very Much!!! Now for my life...full circle...Given (The Bible-to us-through some men who loved Him (God) very much)...Received (by us)...Now Given Again (by us to others)...My my...This thread does not stop giving me Revelation!!!

Loving you In Him...Kathy

[OneLight]

1Co 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be uninformed.

1Co 12:2 You know that when you were pagans you were led astray to mute idols, however you were led.

1Co 12:3 Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says "Jesus is accursed!" and no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except in the Holy Spirit.

1Co 12:4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit;

1Co 12:5 and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord;

1Co 12:6 and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone.

1Co 12:7 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.

1Co 12:8 For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit,

1Co 12:9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit,

1Co 12:10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

1Co 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.

1Co 12:28 And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.

1Co 12:29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?

1Co 12:30 Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?

1Co 12:31 But earnestly desire the higher gifts. And I will show you a still more excellent way.

Brother Mike

Now, you want me to believe that somehow your so special of a Christian, that our Father just passed you up somehow in spiritual Gifts?

See above scripture, so, not all are blessed with spiritual gifts. We can desire them and pray earnestly for them, and may even be gifted for a season, for God's purpose. But no one I know has every gift.

I need to add one more verse that is very inclusive in what Fez posted.

1 Corinthians 12:11

But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

There is no pushing God to do anything. We seek, we knock and we ask. He gives as He wills.

[Fez]

1Co 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be uninformed.

1Co 12:2 You know that when you were pagans you were led astray to mute idols, however you were led.

1Co 12:3 Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says "Jesus is accursed!" and no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except in the Holy Spirit.

1Co 12:4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit;

1Co 12:5 and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord;

1Co 12:6 and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone.

1Co 12:7 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.

1Co 12:8 For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit,

1Co 12:9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit,

1Co 12:10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

1Co 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.

1Co 12:28 And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.

1Co 12:29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?

1Co 12:30 Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?

1Co 12:31 But earnestly desire the higher gifts. And I will show you a still more excellent way.

Brother Mike

Now, you want me to believe that somehow your so special of a Christian, that our Father just passed you up somehow in spiritual Gifts?

See above scripture, so, not all are blessed with spiritual gifts. We can desire them and pray earnestly for them, and may even be gifted for a season, for God's purpose. But no one I know has every gift.

I need to add one more verse that is very inclusive in what Fez posted.

1 Corinthians 12:11

But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

There is no pushing God to do anything. We seek, we knock and we ask. He gives as He wills.

Amen, and thank you for finishing it off perfectly!

[enoob57]

Father...I Pray...Put The Desire For You...for All of You...In us...Let Us Seek You With Our Whole Heart...Let Us Find You, I Pray...In The Name of Jesus...For You Are LIfe...You Are Love...You Are Hope...There are so many more books that weren't written because then Our Bible Would So Big We Wouldn't Be Able To Pick It Up...Even What We Have Was Divinely Inspired Through Some Men Who Loved You Very Much! How Do We Reach You from Earth? How Do We Reconnect To You, Our Creator, When We Were So Separated? By Going After You With Everything In me...There was one Divine Spark...just one is all it takes...Desire!!! For me...I couldn't bear it when my daddy called me sick...or the woman in the grocery store that had no hope that her daughter could be healed...Not even the possiblility...I refused that (kind of thinking) when My Bible told me that I was joint heir with Christ...that the Same Spirit That Raised Jesus From the Dead Lives In me...It's all in there...I had to learn also (as a metaphor) that there is Life inbetween the black and white words...In order to find more...I stepped out in faith...against everything my family ever believed...I had to step where I had never been before...Was I afraid? Oh my...There are no words...My beliefs had to change-In Order to Find Truth...And in going through all this I had to believe above all else that His Word Was True...That He Would Not Leave me or Forsake me...I'm just testifying...I'm not saying everyone can or will or desire or even believe that there is a Baptism In The Holy Ghost...Thank You for 2 Baptisms!!! Thank You, Lord.

Our Lord Is Alive...and in full operation today...Saving The Lost...Healing The Sick...Helping The Poor and The Widows...Opening Deaf Ears and Blind Eyes...Changing Lives and Hearts...Whew...Through Some Men (and Women) Who Love You (Lord) Very Much!!! Now for my life...full circle...Given (The Bible-to us-through some men who loved Him (God) very much)...Received (by us)...Now Given Again (by us to others)...My my...This thread does not stop giving me Revelation!!!

Loving you In Him...Kathy

Eph 4:4-6

4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

NKJV Love, Steven