Fundamentalist transubstantiation?

[Tyler John]

Thanks JohnDB

I see what you are saying. It's a pretty picture, clearly explaining what you mean, but I don't see the diagram in the bible! It takes a good deal of interpretation and extension to create this message from scripture. I tend to prefer a simpler reading of scripture, which is why I find some people's rules and regulations confusing.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Tyler John

[HAZARD]

The Roman Catholic doctrine of "transubstantiation," and the vital importance Rome places upon it. In the year 1215A.D. Pope Innocent III decreed the doctrine of transubstantiation. This is the Roman doctrine that states the priest has the ability to perform the miracle of changing the wafer into the body of Jesus Christ for all Catholics to receive as communion.

Five years later in 1220A.D. Pope Honorius sanctioned the adoration and or worship of the wafer as doctrine.

In essence, the Roman Catholic church is declaring that it has the power to change normal bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus Christ, the Creator of all that is seen and unseen. They truly believe the host (Eucharist) is in fact the TRUE body and blood of Jesus Christ Himself, and is in fact worthy of worship and adoration. Since they think this, do you suppose this doctrine will cause them to believe they are above the Creator?

" "If anyone denies that in the sacrament of the most Holy Eucharist (communion wafer) are contained truly, really and substantially the body and blood together with the soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, and consequently the whole Christ, but says that He is in it only as a sign, or figure or force, let him be anathema." (An exhausted definition of "Anathema" = To be damned and put to death) p.79, Canon 1.

By the consecration the transubstantiation of the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ is brought about. Under the consecrated species of bread and wine Christ himself, living and glorious, is present in a true, real, and substantial manner: his Body and his Blood, with his soul and his divinity (cf. Council of Trent: DS 1640; 1651). From the Catechism of the Catholic Church.1413"

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The invalidity of the Mass, where the priest has the (alleged), ability to perform the miracle of changing the wafer into the body of Jesus Christ, is proved by its being continued. If any Mass could validly apply the infinite merits of Christ's sacrifice for men, Then one Mass would suffice for eternity, since His work is infinite.

The fact that a priest offers Mass for the same people every day, including every Sunday proves that yesterdays and last Sunday's Mass were useless and invalid, for they accomplished no eternal Divine work.

Note especially Hebrews 10:12, "ONE sacrifice; 10:14, by ONE offering; 10:18, NO more offering for sin. Leviticus 6:30.

"AND NO SIN OFFERING, whereof any of the blood is brought into the tabernacle of the congregation withal in the holy place, shall be eaten: IT SHALL BE BURNT IN THE FIRE."

If the Mass is an offering for sin, and according to THE CATHOLIC CATECHISM, Jesus offers Himself daily as a sin offering same as He did on the Cross, If this is the case, the sacrifice CANNOT BE EATEN.

It can, as Jesus instructed us, be symbolically remembered, His flesh and blood cannot, according to the above Scriptures, be literally eaten. Jesus Christ in His flesh and blood body now sits at His Fathers right hand and is not being eaten.

The life of all flesh is the blood just as Jesus is the life of all human beings who accept Him. When He says you must eat my flesh and drink my blood, and in doing so symbolicly in rememberance of Him we accept etenal life. Jesus called Himself the bread of God! "For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world" (John 6:33). "Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst." (John 6:33-35).

[Bold Believer]

I am slightly confused, which is nothing new!

If we are to take everything in the bible as literal and true, then don't the RC church have it right about the bread and wine becoming body and blood? After all, Jesus said 'This is my body.' He didn't say 'This represents my body.' Personally, I take the usual reformed position, which I see as biblically correct, that the bread and wine are symbolic. But, of course, I am prepared to interpret what I read in the bible. For those of you who scorn interpreting the scriptures in favour of accepting everything as being literal, how do you manage to deny transubstantiation?

I am also bemused by Psalm 139. Does our great creator God really 'knit' babies in the womb? Or am I supposed to take this as a useful description rather than a literal statement?

You see, my problem is simple. If I take everything literally then I have to ignore such examples, but if I don't take everything literally then the moderators change my status from believer to seeker. It's a bit like something out of George Orwell's 1984. Perhaps someone can help me to understand. Perhaps someone can even point to the bible passage in which Jesus said 'You must believe in the inneracy of the scriptures or you cannot be a believer and my follower.' I can't find it myself. But then, perhaps I don't know my bible well enough to have spotted it.

Knit simply means to bring about or form. It's an archaic expression. I suggest perhaps using the New King James or NASB which uses more modern English.

The Bible is full of metaphoric and descriptive statements and you don't need to be confused. The Holy Spirit and common sense will help you understand. The devil is described as a 'great red dragon' in Revelation for example, but that doesn't mean he is REALLY a big red dragon.

Jesus was making a metaphorical and spiritual statement. The priests ate the sacrifice in the Old Testament, they poured out the blood on the altar. He is the sacrifice; we are the priests (Peter). The life of the body is in the Blood, so to drink the blood is a statement to put life into yourself FROM Him.