Immortality of the Soul?

[SkilletRocksMyFace]

Just to add onto what was already said in my last post.

I think one of the reasons why people believed in immortal souls is just the opposite of what HisSon said. It was to comfort those who lost a loved one that little jonhny is now in heaven watching down on us.

It is a romantic and comforting notion, and I am not trying to ruin it for anyone, however when it comes to the scritpures, they support the ressurection from the dead. Keeping in mind that seeing your loved ones in the Kingdom to come will be just as wonderful!

For in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye we will all be changed and our mortal flesh will put on immortality at the sound of the last trump and Christ return to this earth. When he puts his feet on the mount of Olives, all the earth will know thier king.

Until that day.

Peace

[BigD]

Saying ANY part of me: body, mind, heart, soul, spirit, nephish, knowledge, consciousness ..whatnot and whatever is immortal is ridiculous ..its making myself equal to God who alone is immortal ..

in my death, all I am is dust ..no consciousness ..no worship ..no praises to the Lord ..resurrection in Christ ..eternal life in God is the only cure.

The thief said to Jesus on the cross

Luk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

if the thief's soul was immortal and if he was going to heaven immediately after death ..it should've been "remember me when i come into your kingdom" ..but the thief says otherwise ..so when is the Lord coming into His kingdom? ..on His return when He will establish His kingdom on earth ..so the thief rightly spoke to remember him THEN ..so what is the thief going to do untill THEN? NOTHING ..he is dead ..there is no remembrance in sheol ..thats what I will do ..do nothing ..untill the Lord comes in His glory and raises me up from the dust that I have returned to.

[larryt]

Saying ANY part of me: body, mind, heart, soul, spirit, nephish, knowledge, consciousness ..whatnot and whatever is immortal is ridiculous ..its making myself equal to God who alone is immortal ..

in my death, all I am is dust ..no consciousness ..no worship ..no praises to the Lord ..resurrection in Christ ..eternal life in God is the only cure.

The thief said to Jesus on the cross

Luk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

if the thief's soul was immortal and if he was going to heaven immediately after death ..it should've been "remember me when i come into your kingdom" ..but the thief says otherwise ..so when is the Lord coming into His kingdom? ..on His return when He will establish His kingdom on earth ..so the thief rightly spoke to remember him THEN ..so what is the thief going to do untill THEN? NOTHING ..he is dead ..there is no remembrance in sheol ..thats what I will do ..do nothing ..untill the Lord comes in His glory and raises me up from the dust that I have returned to.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And what was the answer that Jesus gave to him?

LT

[ann2]

You shall be with me this day in heaven.

[BigD]

Jesus said to him, "Assuredly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise."

Edited November 18, 2004 by BigD

[BigD]

It is sad that we still believe in the devils lie in the garden that we are like God sharing His immortality

Ezekiel 28:

18: Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

19: All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

That was what God had to say about satan who told us we will be like God if we ate the forbidden fruit. If God says a 'fallen' angel will never be any more ..how sure are we to say that our souls are immortal and we will be forever?

Nothing can exists on its own ..everything needs God for its very existence ..is there any christian who will deny this?

Then if you say there will be people with immortal souls existing in the hell fire for eternity then you are implicitly saying that God is replenishing them with that existence ..but hell is separation from God and how can one claim that anything that in its totality being separated from God can exists on it own?

[larryt]

It is sad that we still believe in the devils lie in the garden that we are like God sharing His immortality

Ezekiel 28:

18: Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 

19: All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

That was what God had to say about satan who told us we will be like God if we ate the forbidden fruit. If God says a 'fallen' angel will never be any more ..how sure are we to say that our souls are immortal and we will be forever?

Nothing can exists on its own ..everything needs God for its very existence ..is there any christian who will deny this?

Then if you say there will be people with immortal souls existing in the hell fire for eternity then you are implicitly saying that God is replenishing them with that existence ..but hell is separation from God and how can one claim that anything that in its totality being separated from God can exists on it own?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi BigD,

Right now this moment I have eternal/everlasting life. This life God has put in me. I don't possess it of my own accord but never-the-less I still have it. Those that are resurrected to life spend eternity in heaven with God. Those that are resurrected to damnation spend eternity in hell forever and ever. We were created to live forever. The difference is that we had a beginning and God didn't.

Eze. 28:19 is not talking about eternity and the end of existence. It is saying that this person/fallen angel who was a "king" will never again rule over the hearts of men, and terrify them. That is what will end and never be again. The devil is cast into the lake of fire where there will be torment and gnashing of teeth forever and ever. How can you gnash your teeth is you don't exist?

LT

[SkilletRocksMyFace]

Well just like the "dragon" is figuritve and a personification of sin (Wisdom is personified in proverbs...she sits on the root tops and calls out)

The "weeping and gnashing of teath is figurtive for the sarrow of those not entering the kigdom. Where does it say it will be "forever"?

We already been through the thief on the cross in earlier posts, so stop trying to bring that up, reread the thread and you have your answer to that.

peace.

[larryt]

Well just like the "dragon" is figuritve and a personification of sin (Wisdom is personified in proverbs...she sits on the root tops and calls out) 

The "weeping and gnashing of teath is figurtive for the sarrow of those not entering the kigdom. Where does it say it will be "forever"?

We already been through the thief on the cross in earlier posts, so stop trying to bring that up, reread the thread and you have your answer to that.

peace.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Skillet,

How do yo come up with this idea that the dragon is figurative?

Re 12:9  And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Re 20:2  And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Satan is a real entity just as the demons are real entities. It was satan that tormented Job. Are you saying that Job's suffering was figurative?

And the devil/satan is tormented for ever and ever. The same as gnashing of teeth.

Re 14:11  And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Re 19:20  And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Re 20:10  And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Notice that those that worship the beast have no rest and their torment goes on fro ever and ever. Then the beast and the false prophet are cast alive into the lake of fire. And finally the devil is cast into the lake of fire where he will be tormented for ever. Torment is only torment if you are conscious to feel it. When you lose consciousness the torment ceases.

It is quite convenient to claim something is figurative when it doesn't fit your theology. Are you saying that "evil spirits" are just figurative? When Jesus talked to the Legion, was He just talking to an idea/representation of sin? Was He talking to Himself? What about the disciples when they came back and reported that the demons were subject to them?

LT

[SkilletRocksMyFace]

Well first I get the idea because revolations is a vision of things to come.

The beast is not literal (do you believe it is) it represents nations of powers or a paritcualr thing in authority (perhaps lust, greed, money, etc)

Secondly I already showed you that wisdom is personified in proverbs, so too here is SIN being personified in this vision.

I am actually not allowed to post my views on satan and the devil, otherwise I would be able to answer you quite fully.

My question for you is this. Are you basing you doctrine on a vision in revolations? how do you go about answering all the scritpures from Pual and Christ preaching about the ressurection from the dead. I'd like to see you answer the scritpure in 1corth 15, 1thes 4 and the rest.

Do that, and then we'll talk. Revolations is a vision my friend, not all things are literal.

peace.