nebula Posted July 21, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted July 21, 2012 what is the practical problem she is dealing with? Is it simply that "it is more blessed to give than to recieve?" That's true enough. I think I just heard that validated in a PBS news item of all places! All the same, I'm just wondering if that's one of her strong points after "years of listening to her." If so, I just have a 40 day suggestion for you. Just disappear from as much contact with anyone as you can, and immerse in Luke, Acts and Romans for 40 days, and see what you are like. I hope you will hurt, wretch, stretch, scream, and shout "against the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight" (--Cockburn). --Inter Just curious, Interplanner - is your objection against teachers taking Biblical principles and explaining them in different ways? Or is your objection against Joyce Meyers, and you are shooting down her quote as a means of shooting down her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 The more you reach out to others, the more God's going to change you. You don't change yourself by focusing on what’s wrong with you. )) Amen~! And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. 1 John 3:23-24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted July 21, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted July 21, 2012 God is not the destroyer!!! God does not destroy his own.......... Now if you want to get technical about it.................. His evil battle axe does destroy things. Even Paul was the one to turn those men over to Satan. God certainly was not punishing them. let me ask this gently Mike...are you able to actually refer to what I actually wrote or do you find it necessary to either ignore or insert into my posts? I am asking this, because as I go over yr response, I see I must first disavow knowledge of much of what you would like to attribute to me.... I did not say God destroys His own. This is sheer nonsense and I have no idea why you would even think you need to berate me on it. The comment was regarding the wicked...those who refuse God, certainly not those who are His. Further, did I state satan was created to be a butthead ? (yr expression, not mine)or give the impression I thought he was stupid? that dark angel is far more intelligent than you even begin to suspect. I don't know...I just find yr response all over the place and either completely missing what I wrote or gone off someplace I never went to begin with I'm not being sarcastic...this is what I see We actually do not have the same understanding of God OR the Holy Spirit...as you do not believe in the Trinity and that may very well be some of the problem . You do not actually accept what is accepted Christian doctrine, so I guess it is expected you will divert from what another posts to try and get them to accept what you have decided is the truth Then you tell me that God is not impersonal. You also seem to imply that I have a Calvinistic viewpoint. Is there a valid reason you appear to believe you are preaching to me? To say he planned the bad, for greater good is silly You are seriously ignoring what scripture states. You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives Gen.50:20 This verse is describing two sides of the same coin. It clearly states that God allowed evil to happen to Joseph for the greater good. It does not say that God planned evil. Don't worry, He has the devil and all of us to do that. God tempts no one and He does not render evil. You have oversimplified the verse and have forgotten that God works all things for HIS purpose. Another major Christian doctrine. Further, of course Joseph was tested. You really do not have a clear understanding of the concept of evil IMO...the devil is not at all dumb and we have absolutely no power over him or his demons. ALL that we have is what God allows through Christ. What about God plans everything.... We know he speaks and it happens. Did God really plan to drown the whole planet. Was that really the Master plan? Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. God plans things to grieve himself? He plans things that just make him sigh (Repented). God had to see the wickedness, if it was a plan, then seeing anything wicked would not have mattered. I think your concept of God is a human one and you do not grasp the scriptures. Sorry, call it my opinion, but that is what I think. You did not address my post other than to add to it, detract from it and otherwise mess it up. I'll say it again....what you call (obvious to human beings) evil is quite possibly God's biggest purifier of our downfallen race. Please don't try to explain my above sentence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaMarie savedbygrace Posted July 21, 2012 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 222 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 50 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/27/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) Botz Poor analogy bro...and I did not condemn the whole of WoF as you make out....also I belong to a WoF congregation where our Pastor is an avid supporter of KCM. My Bad........... I don't know you though. I have no beef whatsoever with inspired guess-work...but some people don't know the difference. I like Word for Word. If you say something, I want you to give me scriptures to support what you just said. I want you to be anointed to Teach so it makes sense to me. I examine my Own Pastor Keith Moore (Who served under Hagin for 20 some Years) I examine Brother Copeland. Joyce Meyers? All I can say is she had been a Major blessing to me in my Early years of finding out about God. I do have scriptures that "MAY" fully back what she said. You do need some imagination though as it takes a concept and expounds past that concept. If you heard the story from me, then It would be that Jesus stomped the Devils backside and ripped the keys of Death and Hell from him................ That is what happened, but for someone that want's every single scripture to back that, then I would have to retrace some. My point is that Joyce never said Jesus was tormented by the devil. All the angels in agony, the whole creation is groaning............... "Don't You think?" She takes scriptures and teaches what in her mind took place. Jesus took our place, so we don't have to go to Hell. Those putting her down don't even believe Jesus went to Hell. They also twist what she said, "Though it was dramatic." I don't see fault in it. The angles in Agony? Where is that scripture Joyce? Do we really need to be like that? Do we need goofy people who have no consideration, put down Joyce Meyer after so many other believers have posted that she has been a great help to them? Is that really cool? when Jesus went to Hell, which if you check your Bible is not Satan's home-base for his nefarious operations...this idea is uninspired guess-work and poor exegesis on behalf of some teachers in the WoF movement, based on traditional misconceptions and popular works such as Dantes 'Inferno' and the Passion plays that were rife in Europe hundreds There was a resurrection Part also though Botz........ Satan did have the keys to Hell. Jesus said I will build my church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail. There are bad angels in Hell now........ Satan had the keys to Hell. Not his dwelling place, but scripture sort of gives you an idea of some base of operation. I am not sure how far you take that though. I realise that many good things have come out of this ministry...it really grieves me to feel the need to 'pop' the balloon on certain issues...but you can't sweep the bad stuff under the good stuff...it just doesn't work that way...everything must be exposed for what it is. Is there one person in any denomination that has perfect revelation on everything? Is Bad stuff, not really bad stuff because we lack the revelation to call it good? I have heard some Baptist preaching that all gifts are gone, there is absolutely no more healing. It's clear the man is teaching on something he is clueless about. Is it my job to publicly put him down? We have a nice thread about a Awesome women of God. Spoiled by some unlearned. That is what I see. I certainly don't post negative comments when someone throws up a Baptist teaching which may be many points I don't agree with. Jesus Is Lord. Botz Poor analogy bro...and I did not condemn the whole of WoF as you make out....also I belong to a WoF congregation where our Pastor is an avid supporter of KCM. My Bad........... I don't know you though. I have no beef whatsoever with inspired guess-work...but some people don't know the difference. I like Word for Word. If you say something, I want you to give me scriptures to support what you just said. I want you to be anointed to Teach so it makes sense to me. I examine my Own Pastor Keith Moore (Who served under Hagin for 20 some Years) I examine Brother Copeland. Joyce Meyers? All I can say is she had been a Major blessing to me in my Early years of finding out about God. I do have scriptures that "MAY" fully back what she said. You do need some imagination though as it takes a concept and expounds past that concept. If you heard the story from me, then It would be that Jesus stomped the Devils backside and ripped the keys of Death and Hell from him................ That is what happened, but for someone that want's every single scripture to back that, then I would have to retrace some. My point is that Joyce never said Jesus was tormented by the devil. All the angels in agony, the whole creation is groaning............... "Don't You think?" She takes scriptures and teaches what in her mind took place. Jesus took our place, so we don't have to go to Hell. Those putting her down don't even believe Jesus went to Hell. They also twist what she said, "Though it was dramatic." I don't see fault in it. The angles in Agony? Where is that scripture Joyce? Do we really need to be like that? Do we need goofy people who have no consideration, put down Joyce Meyer after so many other believers have posted that she has been a great help to them? Is that really cool? when Jesus went to Hell, which if you check your Bible is not Satan's home-base for his nefarious operations...this idea is uninspired guess-work and poor exegesis on behalf of some teachers in the WoF movement, based on traditional misconceptions and popular works such as Dantes 'Inferno' and the Passion plays that were rife in Europe hundreds There was a resurrection Part also though Botz........ Satan did have the keys to Hell. Jesus said I will build my church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail. There are bad angels in Hell now........ Satan had the keys to Hell. Not his dwelling place, but scripture sort of gives you an idea of some base of operation. I am not sure how far you take that though. I realise that many good things have come out of this ministry...it really grieves me to feel the need to 'pop' the balloon on certain issues...but you can't sweep the bad stuff under the good stuff...it just doesn't work that way...everything must be exposed for what it is. Is there one person in any denomination that has perfect revelation on everything? Is Bad stuff, not really bad stuff because we lack the revelation to call it good? I have heard some Baptist preaching that all gifts are gone, there is absolutely no more healing. It's clear the man is teaching on something he is clueless about. Is it my job to publicly put him down? We have a nice thread about a Awesome women of God. Spoiled by some unlearned. That is what I see. I certainly don't post negative comments when someone throws up a Baptist teaching which may be many points I don't agree with. Jesus Is Lord. I was thinking the same thing Brother Mike.. This was meant to be a nice, encouraging word ..just to simply state stop looking at what's wrong with you and be a blessing to someone else.. but it has sadly turned into an attack on someone's character and in a sense an attack on me.. I don't expect everyone to like Joyce.. But she has certainly been a blessing to me as far as helping me to understand the word and basically how to survive in my everyday life and not just on Sundays .. I don't agree with everything little thing she says for i do know that none of us have it all together and have it all understood anyway.. We just do the best we can day in and day out. I get tired of the "Im right, you're wrong" .. dissecting every lil word that was written and making more out of it than necessary... We will ALL know the absolute truth some sweet day.. but until then live and let live... Let go and Let God...There is no way anyone of us can fully understand God completely .. what He chooses to do He will do .. I don't put Him in a box nor do I limit Him to a book.. He's sooo much bigger and I respect the Bible for all that it says.. (so please no comments about that))) All I know is HE IS .. and WILL DO.. and WILL Call WHO HE CHOOSES... Edited July 21, 2012 by LisaMarie savedbygrace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zemke Posted July 21, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,028 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 451 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/24/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted July 21, 2012 Lisa Marie, no one is attacking you or for that matter Joyce Meyer. Her teachings have been brought into question for a long time. It's good for us to understand why. When a ministry goes as public as hers the teachings will be in the open for everyone to see. No one used words like goofballs, unlearned, do nothings, to describe Joyce. Reread the posts and consider who is doing the attacking. As I have said, if it were a matter of perspective or conjecture there would not be an issue, but this is about the gospel. I apologize for jumping into a thread meant for uplifting, and stepping on sensitivities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaMarie savedbygrace Posted July 21, 2012 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 222 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 50 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/27/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 21, 2012 Lisa Marie, no one is attacking you or for that matter Joyce Meyer. Her teachings have been brought into question for a long time. It's good for us to understand why. When a ministry goes as public as hers the teachings will be in the open for everyone to see. No one used words like goofballs, unlearned, do nothings, to describe Joyce. Reread the posts and consider who is doing the attacking. As I have said, if it were a matter of perspective or conjecture there would not be an issue, but this is about the gospel. I apologize for jumping into a thread meant for uplifting, and stepping on sensitivities. Zemke..I understand completely that when it comes to the gospel some level of discerning is essential .. We need to no doubt test the spirits.. I get all of that.. And of course everyone will have an opinion when someone steps up into a huge arena if you will like she has.. I just seen this thread go off in so many directions other than where I was hoping it would.. But I do wonder how the comments would have differed if i didn't mention her name at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zayen Posted July 21, 2012 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 4 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/19/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted July 21, 2012 I am blessed with her preaching....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ggustin01 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I knew little of Joyce Meyers, someone gave me "Battlefield of the Mind" yrs ago, I didn't read it until a few months ago. I was quite impressed. I've seen her on tv a few times since then and enjoyed what she had to say. She seems to back up most things she says w/ scripture, and, as with any minister, I learn from her/them, but only truly follow Christ and The Bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botz Posted July 22, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 76 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,492 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 191 Days Won: 18 Joined: 03/29/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted July 22, 2012 To anyone of my brethren that this might concern...... I would have thought an issue surrounding the atonement was fairly important and at the least worth some serious delving into. If I was about to take another bite of my sandwich and someone said they thought there was some glass in it...I think I would have a look-see. The thing about deception is that it has an appearance of good...no preacher/teacher should be offended at having their words and doctrines thoroughly scrutinized, rather they should welcome it. I am fully aware of the difference between minor issues that vary from country to country and denomination to denomination...but the 'atonement' is a core issue of the Christian faith and not to be taken lightly. As the Lamb of G-d, Jesus takes away our sins by His blood and through His death...to add to this and try to prove it is only part of the picture is tantamount to saying what Jesus accomplished on the cross is insufficient. I fully understand why people wanted this to be an uplifting and positive thread, but when it comes to some teachings by some Preachers we have to sound the shofar. I don't want people to be lulled into a false sense of theological security, when they should see for themselves that some things seriously miss the mark, and in the long run could prove disasterous to a persons faith. You don't really need an unknown like me to give you a prod, or anyone that is merely out to point the finger and cause schism...you just need to read your Bible and gain some understanding and discernment. In brotherly love and concern for the Body. Botz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Joyce Meyers? All I can say is she had been a Major blessing to me in my Early years of finding out about God. I do have scriptures that "MAY" fully back what she said. You might have scripture but you're really not sure. You do need some imagination though as it takes a concept and expounds past that concept. What does the bible say about adding to scripture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts