which commandments?

[Guest Colossians]

Can a Christian be anti-Semitic and honor God at the same time?

"Anti-Semitic" means "anti-descendent-of- Shem", not "anti-Jewish".

There is no need to substitute the name "anti-Semitic" for "anti-Jew" anymore than to substitute "anti-Caucasion" for "anti-British" or "anti-American".

The Jews have no exclusive right to the term "Semitic": all the Arabs are Semites.

That they prefer to hijack the term so that it refers exclusively to themselves, is suspect: it tends to show that they are not merely defending Jewishness, but promoting it.

A Christian is not to be anti anything except anti [anti-Christ].

Edited November 24, 2004 by Colossians

[Guest shiloh357]

Those who wish to go backwards are indeed observing torah and Sabbaths and New Moons and festivals. Does it

[Guest shiloh357]

What I don't care for is people trying to enforce their religious beliefs through government that shouldn't be and the focus of so many christians on Israel and the OT laws and ceremonies.

This shows that you do not understand Christian Zionsim, nor do you understand Messianic Judaism. Instead of asking questions, you work from faulty assumptions.

Christian Zionism is simply support for Israel to live peacefully and free of terrorism on their own God-given land.

Here is a question. In the above quote, could you clairify what you mean by "government that shouldn't be?" Do you believe the government of Israel should not exist? Are you saying that we are supporting a government that should have not been established?

[Guest Colossians]

"are you suggesting that Christians are forbidden to help those who 'aren't recognizing their Savior'?"

"All things are lawful, not all things are expedient"

[Guest Colossians]

Christian Zionism is simply support for Israel to live peacefully and free of terrorism on their own God-given land.

If it is God-given, then they wouldn't need America to keep it for them.

Rather, it is no longer God-given, for the covenant with Israel was broken when Israel chose to crucify its covenant Partner. You can't have a covenant with one only party to it.

Everything changed when Jesus came: Israel is now in the Spirit, and is given an appropriate name: "the Israel of God".

[Guest Colossians]

Yes. Zech 11:10-12.

[Guest shiloh357]

Christian Zionism is simply support for Israel to live peacefully and free of terrorism on their own God-given land.

If it is God-given, then they wouldn't need America to keep it for them.

Rather, it is no longer God-given, for the covenant with Israel was broken when Israel chose to crucify its covenant Partner. You can't have a covenant with one only party to it.

Everything changed when Jesus came: Israel is now in the Spirit, and is given an appropriate name: "the Israel of God".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry that is not correct. I will deal with each error one at a time.

1. America is not keeping the land of Israel for the Israelis. If you bothered to study history you would have found that Israel has fought all their wars alone. They have never had one military ally on the field. America has not shed one drop of blood on Israel's behalf. Every bullet that was fired in Israel's defense was fired by an Israeli Jew. Not only that but in the 1948 war, Israel asked for help from the United States in the form of weapons, and Truman declined.

You need to study a bit more before making such grievous errors. It is God who is keeping Israel. You need to read the prophecy of Zechariah 12.

Zec 12:6 In that day will I make the governors of Judah like a hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.

Zec 12:7 The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.

Zec 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.

Zec 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

In this prophecy it is God who is making Israel capable of destroying all her enemies. God is taking credit for Israel's success. It is a description of modern Israel. There is no other time, post-Zechariah where Israel ever fit the above description until now. Israel has one every war brought to her by the Arabs, and has done so against incredible, unprecedented odds. They have done so alone and have been scorned by the world for successfully defending themselves against annihilation.

2. The land covenant that God made with Abraham was unconditional. Furthermore the Abrahamic covenant was not made between God and Abraham. It was made between God and Jesus in Gen 15. It was God and Jesus walking between the animal halves. The promise of the Land is not conditional upon Israel's conduct. Living on the land is.

Secondly, God is currently bringing the Children of Israel back to the Land in accordance to Bible prophecy. He is bringing them back to the Land that He gave to Abraham in an ETERNAL covenant. God cannot go back on his word. Since the covenant was not made with man, man cannot break the covenant. Only God and Jesus can break the covenant, and neither of them are capable of breaking their promise.

Thirdly, Jesus was not Israel's "covenant partner." That is just nonsense. Jesus was Israel's covenant representative. The Brit Chadahshah (Renewed Covenant) was cut in Jesus blood. Not only was the Old Covenant not abolished, it was renewed. Here is the Scriptural basis for this:

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they broke, although I was a husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

The term in Hebrew for New Covenant used by Jeremiah, is Brit Chadashah. It means "renewed covenant." It does not mean "new" in the absolute sense. God has modified the original covenant to account for the inclusion of the Gentiles and coming of Messiah.

The sacrificial system was not done away with, but rather was improved. We still have blood, only it is better blood. We still have a sacrifice, only this sacrifice cleanses us from sin. We still have a High Priest, but He is a better Priest than those after Aaron's order. The difference between the Old Covenant and the Renewed covenant is like the difference between trading in a Volkswagon Bug for a Rolls Royce.

Everything did not change when Jesus came, and Israel is still Israel. They are still God's nation. How do I know? From the following verses:

Jer 31:35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:

Jer 31:36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me forever.

Jer 31:37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

These verses tell me that Israel is still God's nation. He has not cast them aside for someone else. Furthermore, He still calls them His people in end time prophecies such as Ezekiel chapters, 36, 37, and 38.

[nebula]

Can a Christian be anti-Semitic and honor God at the same time?

"Anti-Semitic" means "anti-descendent-of- Shem", not "anti-Jewish".

There is no need to substitute the name "anti-Semitic" for "anti-Jew" anymore than to substitute "anti-Caucasion" for "anti-British" or "anti-American".

The Jews have no exclusive right to the term "Semitic": all the Arabs are Semites.

That they prefer to hijack the term so that it refers exclusively to themselves, is suspect: it tends to show that they are not merely defending Jewishness, but promoting it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK - all my life I have heard the term "anti-semitic" being used as the term to describe persecution against the Jews. I have heard this term from school teachers, newscasters, . . . neither were Christian nor Jew.

Where is your evidence that the Jews "hijacked" the term?

[Guest shiloh357]

Can a Christian be anti-Semitic and honor God at the same time?

"Anti-Semitic" means "anti-descendent-of- Shem", not "anti-Jewish".

There is no need to substitute the name "anti-Semitic" for "anti-Jew" anymore than to substitute "anti-Caucasion" for "anti-British" or "anti-American".

The Jews have no exclusive right to the term "Semitic": all the Arabs are Semites.

That they prefer to hijack the term so that it refers exclusively to themselves, is suspect: it tends to show that they are not merely defending Jewishness, but promoting it.

A Christian is not to be anti anything except anti [anti-Christ].

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, Arabs are not semites. They are of the line of Ham. The Arabs were contemporaries with Ishmael, and could not have descended from him.

Are The Arabs The Descendants of Ishmael?

By Dr. Robert A. Morey

www.faithdefenders.com

Introduction

The Middle East will never have peace until the above question is honestly answered according to the historical facts. Myths and legends are fine as stories for children but in the real world we must have facts and documentation.

Part One

The Arab Claim

The Arabs

[Guest Colossians]

America is not keeping the land of Israel for the Israelis. If you bothered to study history you would have found that Israel has fought all their wars alone.

If America disappeared tommorrow morning, Israel would follow a few hours later. They are outnumbered.

Australia is also in a similar position. The enemies of both countries know that big bro U.S is watching with vested interest. That is the only reason both countries are safe.

You need to read the prophecy of Zechariah 12.

Rather you need to do 3 things:

1a. Understand that if it is not in the NT, then you are off track

1b. Understand that if it is additional to the message of the cross, you are off-track.

2. Read Zech 11:10-13 in which God broke His covenant with the Jews at the cross.

3. Understand that it is redundant to quote OT prophecy's "Judah" and "Israel" and "Jacob" as supposed proof of future literal fulfillment: you must show us from the NT. For Numbers 12 tells us that when God speaks with a prophet, it is in "dark and mystic" speech.

Of course the prophecies mention "Israel" and "Judah" etc: that is all they had in their knowledge. It is redundant to refer to a type, in an attempt to prove it is not a type.

Rather, Eph 3:5 tells us it was Paul who let the world know about the real story going on.

The NT is the authority and exhaustive interpretation of the OT. It tells us most emphatically that the flesh is redundant and vain, and that the true Jew is the Christian (one circumcised of heart), and that only a few of the physical Jews will become true Jews. It is all about Christ, and nothing about anything else.

Thirdly, Jesus was not Israel's "covenant partner."

God was Israel's covenant partner. Jesus is God. The prophecy of Zech 11:10-13 speaks of Christ. It is He who said He had made a covenant with Israel, and He who said He broke that covenant at the cross.

Your thought that Jesus is Israel's representative is only true if "Israel" is spiritual: those who put their trust in Him, those born again. Whether desendant of Jacob, or Gentile, is irrelevant.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they broke, although I was a husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

This is talking about Christianity: the inward (true) Jew. The Christians are the Israel of God, and include both Jew and Gentile. God only has one Israel: those who worship Him in Christ.

Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Again, Christianity. So much so, that one could be forgiven for thinking it to be NT scripture.

Edited November 24, 2004 by Colossians